A huge problem with this board

dunder kill··251 votes·6,679 views

There is such a relatively small amount of people that use this board that when we get invaded by a subreddit (like we currently are by /rengarmains fyi) it blows issues out of proportion. The community didnt suddenly rush to the defense of Rengar. We're getting invaded by a subreddit of Rengar players that are upvoting any discussion about him though the roof.

This is a huge problem because whether or not these ideas are good or bad doesn't matter. If it has to do with Rengar, its upvoted like crazy. Don't you think its a bit weird how over the course of a few days there went from being absolutely nothing about him to like 8 threads on the front page at all times?

Its also snuffing out the other discussions we are trying to have by kicking all the other issues off the front page for 10 Rengar threads that are extremely redundant to begin with. They are disproportionately representing their concerns at the cost of silencing others.

Honestly it feel pretty deceitful to try to misrepresent the opinion of the community. 500 people didnt upvote that thread, 500 Rengar mains did. It seems like a very dishonest way to express your opinion.

Anyway, take it or leave it. Just be aware that the community isn't ACTUALLY in some crazy frenzy about Rengar.

EDIT: Just to clarify it's not like I think Rengar players dont have a right to voice their opinions, but falsely creating this frenzy by upvoting so many threads isnt exactly a fair way of going about it. It would be nice if you limited it to a few threads instead of upvoting practically every single one. Even if they were spaced out it would be better rather than constantly kicking other discussions off the front page

117 Comments

Sakuri Ono51 votes

Hello everyone~! The timing of this topic actually couldn't be any better as the Warden program just released a whole bunch of us into the fray.

There should be a proper introduction thread soon, but for now I am 1/4th of your new Gameplay board specific Wardens and this particular issue is something we've had quite a few days of discussion about. Allow me just a tiny bit of banner raising to pin this comment so more people can see that plans are indeed in motion.

And for all you TL;DR people, feel free to Control + F down to the "Plan of the Week"

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Now for the meat of things. Just what can we do/want to do about high influx of subjects like 'Rengar' that, while obviously having a very strongly passionate community behind them, tend to bog down the boards in a lot of similar, low-impact, topic spam.

First, we need to look at 'why' this tends to happen. Over time there's this general 'history' in the community, even going back to the days of the original Forum system, that in order to gain Riot's attention you need to be loud, boisterous, if not downright aggressive to get the coveted 'Red Post' confirming that your topic has indeed gotten attention. While, admittedly, this has worked in a few rare cases; we've noticed this has led to a more aggressive environment over time with less and less constructive-styled feedback popping up. In tandem with this, Riot posts have turned up less commonly as well.

Then of course you have the side 'whys' like bandwagoning, 5 seconds-in-spotlight-ect.

So what can be done/what do we plan to do about it?

Well, as they say in the old Western movies: There's a new sheriff in town.

Now, before we give off the wrong idea here, we're talked this through quite a bit and none of us want to take the 'purify by flames' approach at all. In fact just discouraging and/or deleting posts left, right, and center wound end badly for everyone. We're quite well studied on the 'Us vs the Mods' era back when Boards first began. Instead we'd like to try a few 'reward' systems on top of just simply enforcing the rules on a fundamental level. Here's the two biggest points of action we're focusing on right now.

"Plan of the Week"

Megathreads

So what 'is' a Megathread? A Megathread is a combination of, what normally is dozens of different ideas scattered across individual threads, all wrapped up into a singular post. With proper formatting (and a ToC list) people can quickly see if their point has been made, offer new points, content current points, ect. All in the comment's section of a single thread.

We would like to think this could have three great side effect for the community here as a whole.

-Those who go to the effort to maintain Megathreads, on issues that come and go such as this Rengar moment, can potentially see their threads Pinned for maximum Riot visibility. We're still discussing the 'qualifications' for what hits this critical mass point, but be assured it is a hotbed issue in our minds at the moment.

-With a pinned discussion, containing a LOT of constructive critique of an issue, we're hoping this will more positively encourage Rioters to have a spot to leave feedback on the issues you, the community, feel need some form of addressing.

-Additionally, this incentive should help give people reasons to gravitate towards centralized threads; rather than spinning out as many clone-topics as possible.

Enforcement of the Universal Rules

Now, for the sake of clarity and sanity, we know that even the most Positive minded of solutions isn't going to be a 100% fix. People will still want to make their own topics (which is fine in and of itself!), people will still bandwagon. However, at least half of the current issue we and the community have with this can be addressed by applying the Universal Rules themselves. You will likely see these ones in particular enforced quite a bit in the near future.

Spamming / Trolling -Posting designed to bait conversation or falsify content -Making repetitive non-constructive or low effort content -Bumping of discussions with no additional context

Let's be honest on both ends, there are quite a few posts containing merely a few lines, of things already more constructively covered in other threads or said purely just to anger people into replying. In recent history these have simply slid through due to being 'topic of the moment' relevant and Upvoted highly enough to stick around far longer than they should.

Aside from directly reported topics, these will likely be the ones most likely to be sealed up by us.

Together we're hoping these two approaches will help with quite a few of the issues you've brought up in this thread and discussion!

Please, if you have any feedback, questions, concerns fire away! The Wardens are all ears for things the Community would like to see happen as well; as we're going to do everything in our power to make our transition a two-way street.

Regards~

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/SakuriOno/signature_zpsxvarnhru.jpg

macromite4 votes

was this intended as a comment, because it doesn't look like it belongs as a comment.

Sakuri Ono15 votes

Fully intended.

When it comes to things like this the goal is more to add to community driven/originating discussions than simply 'make our own thread'.

Wardens are intended to foster community activity, not 'hijack' it through use of our own board powers. :3

If there's no such outlet available, we can and will make our own; but speaking personally I'd rather everyone feel they had an equal chance to be approached rather than having to come to us.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

LuxannaVeritas4 votes

BLESS

Can't wait to see how these changes play out! As someone who likes community discussion but feels like the boards can be a hostile place sometimes, I hope the megathreads and enforcement can bring the boards one step closer to a better system!

Sakuri Ono2 votes

It's an exciting 'experiment' for us as well. :3 We're very much letting the community's voice be a major factor in this. If the community does not like how the Megathread system is going after a few attempts we're more than willing to just 'Revert' our approach and start from scratch.

Everyone in the GP Wardens is more than on board with 'trying til we get it right' rather than trying to force out a half-functional system. ^_^

Mannny1 votes

Do you plan to pin this to the forum section as a whole so that everyone can see??? This seems like a change to be displayed to all.

Sakuri Ono2 votes

We're taking time to discuss some of the specifics. But I think I can share some of them with you so long as you don't mind a big, blinking neon sign above this stating "THIS IS BUT A PROTOTYPE/CONCEPT".

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Pinning is indeed one of the discussed 'rewards' for a successful Megathread. However we're also aware of the flip side of this. We're not wanting the concept to degenerate into a bunch of skirmishes between users of "My thread was first" or "My thread has X, why didn't it get picked?".

It's something we want to use to help the community develop route onto a less hostile track, not become a new battleground to fight over.

Pin requirements are still very much a discussion point and I imagine we'll be visiting the subject for hashing out 'final plans' fairly soon. Especially seeing the positive reaction to the idea thus far. Just give us about a week or so to get 'accustomed' to being Wardens and then we can move onto the fun stuff~.

Rengar Top Lane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sakuri Ono,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BxEKasOU,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2017-06-16T02:03:20.900+0000)

Hello everyone~! The timing of this topic actually couldn't be any better as the Warden program just released a whole bunch of us into the fray.

There should be a proper introduction thread soon, but for now I am 1/4th of your new Gameplay board specific Wardens and this particular issue is something we've had quite a few days of discussion about. Allow me just a tiny bit of banner raising to pin this comment so more people can see that plans are indeed in motion.

And for all you TL;DR people, feel free to Control + F down to the "Plan of the Week"

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Now for the meat of things. Just what can we do/want to do about high influx of subjects like 'Rengar' that, while obviously having a very strongly passionate community behind them, tend to bog down the boards in a lot of similar, low-impact, topic spam.

First, we need to look at 'why' this tends to happen. Over time there's this general 'history' in the community, even going back to the days of the original Forum system, that in order to gain Riot's attention you need to be loud, boisterous, if not downright aggressive to get the coveted 'Red Post' confirming that your topic has indeed gotten attention. While, admittedly, this has worked in a few rare cases; we've noticed this has led to a more aggressive environment over time with less and less constructive-styled feedback popping up. In tandem with this, Riot posts have turned up less commonly as well.

Then of course you have the side 'whys' like bandwagoning, 5 seconds-in-spotlight-ect.

So what can be done/what do we plan to do about it?

Well, as they say in the old Western movies: There's a new sheriff in town.

Now, before we give off the wrong idea here, we're talked this through quite a bit and none of us want to take the 'purify by flames' approach at all. In fact just discouraging and/or deleting posts left, right, and center wound end badly for everyone. We're quite well studied on the 'Us vs the Mods' era back when Boards first began. Instead we'd like to try a few 'reward' systems on top of just simply enforcing the rules on a fundamental level. Here's the two biggest points of action we're focusing on right now.

"Plan of the Week"

Megathreads

So what 'is' a Megathread? A Megathread is a combination of, what normally is dozens of different ideas scattered across individual threads, all wrapped up into a singular post. With proper formatting (and a ToC list) people can quickly see if their point has been made, offer new points, content current points, ect. All in the comment's section of a single thread.

We would like to think this could have three great side effect for the community here as a whole.

-Those who go to the effort to maintain Megathreads, on issues that come and go such as this Rengar moment, can potentially see their threads Pinned for maximum Riot visibility. We're still discussing the 'qualifications' for what hits this critical mass point, but be assured it is a hotbed issue in our minds at the moment.

-With a pinned discussion, containing a LOT of constructive critique of an issue, we're hoping this will more positively encourage Rioters to have a spot to leave feedback on the issues you, the community, feel need some form of addressing.

-Additionally, this incentive should help give people reasons to gravitate towards centralized threads; rather than spinning out as many clone-topics as possible.

Enforcement of the Universal Rules

Now, for the sake of clarity and sanity, we know that even the most Positive minded of solutions isn't going to be a 100% fix. People will still want to make their own topics (which is fine in and of itself!), people will still bandwagon. However, at least half of the current issue we and the community have with this can be addressed by applying the Universal Rules themselves. You will likely see these ones in particular enforced quite a bit in the near future.

Spamming / Trolling -Posting designed to bait conversation or falsify content -Making repetitive non-constructive or low effort content -Bumping of discussions with no additional context

Let's be honest on both ends, there are quite a few posts containing merely a few lines, of things already more constructively covered in other threads or said purely just to anger people into replying. In recent history these have simply slid through due to being 'topic of the moment' relevant and Upvoted highly enough to stick around far longer than they should.

Aside from directly reported topics, these will likely be the ones most likely to be sealed up by us.

Together we're hoping these two approaches will help with quite a few of the issues you've brought up in this thread and discussion!

Please, if you have any feedback, questions, concerns fire away! The Wardens are all ears for things the Community would like to see happen as well; as we're going to do everything in our power to make our transition a two-way street.

Regards~

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/SakuriOno/signature_zpsxvarnhru.jpg

This tends to happen because riot goes silent when they change a champion or invest zero time into a rework they failed. Didn't see any "Wardens" when ADC mains flooded the boards with rengar complaints. Also, this is just another way to keep the mains silent by hushing their voices when they are finally fed up with these devs wanting to take their enjoyment out of league.

Sakuri Ono2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sinister Rengar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BxEKasOU,comment-id=00250004,timestamp=2017-06-16T19:25:32.038+0000)

This tends to happen because riot goes silent when they change a champion or invest zero time into a rework they failed. Didn't see any "Wardens" when ADC mains flooded the boards with rengar complaints. Also, this is just another way to keep the mains silent by hushing their voices when they are finally fed up with these devs wanting to take their enjoyment out of league.

This currently influx of Wardens only just got the 'Fly, my pretties!' all of 24 hours ago. XD And it's quite the opposite hun~. We're looking for ways to make your concerns delivered more directly and efficiently. About all repeated content battery does to a board is make its readers go "Oh, another X thread" and just skip it entirely; even if it has a large number of upvotes.

Considering these threads also have a history of being hyper-aggressive, if not purely memetic with no real constructive feedback, Riot's smaller posting trends over the years speak for themselves I believe.

In short, the ultimate goal is making sure the 'Mains' get answers to their questions, in a quicker manner, as situations like this arise in the future.

Eedat45 votes

I agree with a lot of this. I pointed this out in a thread like twenty minutes ago. I use this board as opposed to the main reddit because the main LoL subreddit is extraordinarily diluted with E-Sports, Pro/Streamer drama, highlight reels, he said/she said BS, etc that its extremely hard to have a discussion about actual gameplay.

Although we're much smaller in numbers, this is our outlet were we can have our discussions with each other and have it been seen by Riot as opposed to it getting shoved to page 3 of the "new" tab in 10 minutes on reddit.

This "Rengar frenzy" is making it more similar to reddit in that its diluting other gameplay issues that we're trying to discuss.

dunder kill10 votes

I agree with a lot of this. I pointed this out in a thread like twenty minutes ago.

Not gonna lie, I saw that and thats what made me make this thread.

I use this board as opposed to the main reddit because the main LoL subreddit is extraordinarily diluted with E-Sports, Pro/Streamer drama, highlight reels, he said/she said BS, etc that its extremely hard to have a discussion about actual gameplay.

Although we're much smaller in numbers, this is our outlet were we can have our discussions with each other and have it been seen by Riot as opposed to it getting shoved to page 3 of the "new" tab in 10 minutes on reddit.

This "Rengar frenzy" is making it more similar to reddit in that its diluting other gameplay issues that we're trying to discuss.

Couldn't agree more

Cowseed3 votes

I agree with a lot of this. I pointed this out in a thread like twenty minutes ago. I use this board as opposed to the main reddit because the main LoL subreddit is extraordinarily diluted with E-Sports, Pro/Streamer drama, highlight reels, he said/she said BS, etc that its extremely hard to have a discussion about actual gameplay.

You described it down to a T. I know that you want more versatility that X main reddits so why not go on summoners school for that?

FantasySniper2 votes

/r/LeagueofLegendsMeta/ is much more gameplay-oriented, but it's practically an alternative /r/summonerschool/.

The Fuzzy 0ne23 votes

gets immediately downvoted by rengar mains

Rengooo9 votes

I up voted it? I agree with it completely :/

Swarovsko4 votes

He's just assuming stuff, like this whole thread did

The Fuzzy 0ne6 votes

It's a joke

Marshbouy18 votes

Honestly it feel pretty deceitful to try to misrepresent the opinion of the community. 500 people didnt upvote that thread, 500 Rengar mains did.

i agree, rengar mains aren't people.

DeerGreenwood8 votes

{quoted}

i agree, rengar mains aren't people.

I'm not sure if I should laugh or shake my head in disgust.

Marshbouy11 votes

Laugh because it's a joke.

50000000000000008 votes

Laughs in disgust

Sqkerg6 votes

Disgustingly laughs

PokladnicaZla12 votes

I upvoted some of those threads,and I don't even like Rengar. No champ deserves to be left in a gutter.

TurquoiseYoshi18 votes

Except Rengar isn't in the gutter. His Solo Queue win rate is good enough and he gets some occasional play in the pros. These people are complaining about the reworked kit being not what they wanted.

50000000000000006 votes

It wasn't really about the power so much as player satisfaction. Which I think is still a serious concern, but I agree on saying that Rengar is left in the gutter wouldn't be correct.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Then why are these threads coming up "out of nowhere"? The rework is what? 7 months old? This should have been addressed then if the player satisfaction is an actual problem, but I guess now that Rengar is no longer overperforming they finally decide they don't like the kit.

DaNinad7 votes

{quoted}

I upvoted some of those threads,and I don't even like Rengar. No champ deserves to be left in a gutter.

Urgot DrMundo Mordekaiser

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Mordekaiser What's bad about him ? the few times where i see him, he litteraly 1v9

Electro5225 votes

You have to REALLY know what you're doing in order to do that. If you see Morde picked period, chances are that that player is not new to him. He does have a TON of bugs right now, and is in desperate need of a full blown VGU (so much so, that everyone has been waiting on the announcement for over a year).

So, his problems aren't really direct like Yasuo's might be, but more indirect.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Yeah usualy they're otp. Same like Aatrox MonkeyKing Urgot ...

Electro5223 votes

I can understand Aatrox and Urgot, but Wu? He's quite strong even in the hands of someone who only has a few games on him. In fact, I could play him in my next game and perform decently, and I'm an ADC main.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

{quoted}

Urgot DrMundo Mordekaiser

Urgot is a meme for how bad he is. Mundo is getting indirect buffs with all the health buffs as armor/mr is cut since he scales on it, and he's even gotten several small direct buffs on top of it. Morde mains come to this board all the time to suggest changes, he's playable but clunky af especially given he has literally hundreds of bugs.

ReZisT Lust2 votes

a meme that's getting a blitz hook Implanted in his belly

Tattersall10 votes

Yeah… I thought it was weird when three of the posts that were on the top of the front page were by people named Rengylvania, Rengar Rampage, and KnifeCat.

Marshbouy5 votes

I've also been seeing a huge influx of people with rengar related names to the boards.

Hellioning8 votes

What, don't you trust a guy named Rengar Revert to be calm and rational about Rengar's rework?

Marshbouy2 votes

Hmm, I don't know why I wouldn't....

Nuparu8 votes

To be fair, when the community is just being the community, the front page is just "Nerf/Rework/Delete Yasuo"/"DAE 10 bans Yasuo 100%+ ban rate???" and things like "Nerf Lee Sin harder he still ruins games because he exists." or "Nerf [meta mage here] because they have way too much of [insert strength here]"

I'm okay with Rengar mains trying to voice their opinion, because frankly I'm pretty sure they just got left in the dark after the Rioters on their subreddit kinda stopped caring about their feedback.

DonatellaVersace8 votes

Its honestly so annoying. "Omg revert Rengar her's sooo bad." Okay yeah I can agree but that's really not what the rest of the community really cares about. I mean what will invading/spamming accomplish? This hype really only gave Rengar mains a bad look.

OP Garen Support3 votes

Exactly. They proved that they are as just as bad as Yasuo Riven Vayne Fiora mains. Even worse these toxic people managed to cooperate. It is scary how annoying it is when all the toxic mains unite. They did nothing but spam the boards, demand special attention and was insulting anyone who did not agree to bring back the unbalanced Rengar. Yes they are toxic mains because decent players dont behave like that.

Marshbouy8 votes

I'm sick of people saying that rengar's Q was healthy and good for the game. Triple Q was incredibly unbalanced.

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

Beat back the invaders! FOR HONOR!

TheDevice5 votes

But who else other than Rengar mains are going to be in uproar? makes perfect sense.

People who don't really care won't care to vote up or down at all. I don't get what you're trying to say exactly.

dunder kill13 votes

Its also snuffing out the other discussions we are trying to have by kicking all the other issues off the front page

It would be nice if you limited it to a few threads instead of upvoting practically every single one. Even if they were spaced out it would be better rather than constantly kicking other discussions off the front page

Unreformed Shaco4 votes

I wish Shaco mains did that. Might not be in the sorry state he is.

It doesn't matter what the boards say anyway, Riot has shown time and time again that they do not give a fuck.

Everyone screams about Yasuo's ban rate and how he is either a cancerous shitstain to face or a borderline intentional feeder when allied, and Riot stayed adamant that he would not be getting changes.

10 bans comes out, Yasuo rocks 90% and NOW they want to rework him.

Ultimately, Riot do what Riot want, and no amount of upvotes will change that.

General Theritt15 votes

When Shaco rocks a 53% WR and his mains are still complaining that he has to get nerfs for being such a good tilt-based jungler

Unreformed Shaco1 votes

AP Shaco is dead, Assassin Shaco is dead.

The only thing remaining is bruiser build.

General Theritt8 votes

So, they removed assassination from Shaco because of his insane mobility because he had a miniature flash with invisibility, totaled AP shaco because it allowed him to act nearly as cheese as Teemo while steal dealing plenty of damage, and they're stuck with bruiser because its the only way to tone down shaco from actually being really really useful in lategame so that way he can't be viable during the end of the match. Its almost as though Shaco's early game is one of the most invade and oppression heavy jungle early on in the game. Its like he's got built in hard CC, decent slow, range, close range, splitpushing power, and good gank potential early on to offset his horrific lategame power by making sure he ends early.

WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT

but in all seriousness, dude, I get it, two key styles of playing shaco died, but they kind of had to die considering Shaco's winrate was ridiculously high even after being heavily nerfed multiple times. Hell, they gutted both builds and the clown still holds a 53% because of how ridiculously strong his early game ganks and mindgame ability is. He can force players to tilt and can guarantee an early win if he snowballs the right lanes like his ADC which the meta is so eccentric around right now.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku8 votes

So, they removed assassination from Shaco

No, they didn't.

Sir Fuzzi4 votes

You're not wrong.

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