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What makes an ult an ult?

Thryale··1 votes·652 views

Okay, with the recent veigar changes coming up, I'm sure everyone is busy debating the pros and cons of the q and e change. I know I have. But let's set that aside for now. What I want to talk about is veig's ult.

With the planned changes, his ult will be a 500 base dmg nuke with a 1.0 ap ratio and a .8 ap ratio based off his target's ap.

With that, I'm really starting to wonder what about that skill makes it worthy of being an ult. All it has going for it is 3 things.

  1. it's point and click. no aiming necessary (veig's last remaining reliable skill)

  2. it got a unique, but uber niche, scaling based on enemy ap (which is always over estimated by ppl. half the time, veig's job is to kill the adc)

  3. it's raw dmg. (which is getting nerfed due to supposed buffs to his ap farming on his q)

but after looking at all the colorful and useful ults of a lot of other champs in league, veig's ult really just falls flat. Outside of it's dmg, it serves no real purpose to his team. It has no aoe, no cc, no utility of any kind.

An ult that keeps jumping to my mind for comparison is Lissandra's ult. It has several qualities of veig's ult:

  • It's point and click

  • it's got raw dmg

but while liss's ult is missing 150 base dmg, a .3 ap ratio, and ap scaling off the enemies ap, she instead has:

  • aoe dmg (she can hit 5 members of the enemy team for a total of up to 1750 base dmg and 3.5 ap ratio spread amongst the enemy team)

  • aoe slow (this is to never be under estimated in a team fight)

  • instant stun, no travel time necessary (this is very important, veig's has travel time)

  • or zhonya's effect (in exchange for not using the stun aspect)

Both liss and veig's ult will have an 80 sec cd but liss's ult costs 100 mana, while veigs will cost 125.

So, with such varying differences in utiltiy and power, what makes veig's ult truly ult worthy? Is a 1.0 ap ratio really that strong? veig has a 1.0 ratio on his w. Is it because it's a point and click nuke? We can see that liss has that and then some. So what is it, exactly?

4 Comments

Major Sparkles3 votes

"R" makes an ult. Unless you're Udyr, Elise, Jayce, or Nidalee.

Thryale1 votes

lol yer funny

Purodyuusaa3 votes

I'm not sure that's a very fair comparison. I could argue what makes Rek'Sai's ult an ult vs Twisted Fate's as they both provide large map movement. The difference is Rek'Sai needs to preplan her ult whereas Twisted Fate just does it with the added bonus of revealing the entire team. Or I could compare it to someone like Pantheon who doesn't potentially travel as far as Rek'Sai but does deal aoe damage when he arrives. Again, he doesn't need to preplan his jump.

But anyways, in my opinion, an ult is supposed to be a more powerful version of preexisting skills that have a higher potential to be game changing. Take Janna's monsoon for example. Sure, she can peel with her tornadoes but those depend on her ability to land a premeditated skill shot. Monsoon on the other hand is a guaranteed disengage provided she puts herself in the right position. Ziggs can kill someone with bouncing bomb and it does provide a small amount of aoe damage. His ult however can be thrown at a further distance and deals larger amounts of aoe.

So back to Veigar. Veigar's ult is a pac nuke that can deal a crap ton of damage if he hits an ap character with it. The chances of him blowing someone up with his ult is higher than Lissandra's ult because of the additional scaling. That's what makes his ult game changing. It's almost a guaranteed deletion. Lissandra's on the other hand doesn't have the same kill potential as Veigar's, although it can certainly still kill someone. Don't get me wrong. She trades less damage for more stall time though, whether that's keeping someone out of a fight longer or buying time for her team to arrive. Added to that, Lissandra has to be 100 units closer to her target than Veigar does, putting her in more potential danger. Also, don't just pass off the 1.0 ratio on Veigar's ult. You have to factor in most Veigar players will have read what his skills do and will know that last hitting with his q stacks his ap. At 40 minutes, that ult is a death sentence regardless of whether you're ad or ap. At that point, even tanks should start to worry about the damage coming from that skill.

While it's fun to compare two skills that occupy the same button between two champions, I think it's more important to analyze their entire kits and compare them that way instead. Lissandra's ult helps push her more towards her role as a control mage, while Veigar's ult pushes him more towards a nuke mage. The damage, ratios, cc's, and accompanying kits exemplify that.

Talamare1 votes

But it does slightly more damage than Swain's E

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