If Riot wants to stop level 2 ganks, make jungle XP worth more instead of less

PapaGreg21·Nov 5, 2018·6 votes·1,963 views

Making the already terrible exp gains in the jungle even worse is going to force junglers to just camp lanes 24/7 instead of actually doing clears. This is common sense and should have already been proven by what happened with the scuttle crab changes where laners were complaining of fast level 3 ganks ruining their early laning phase and instead got immediate ganks when the jungler hit 2 post scuttle era.

Jungle experience sucks right now. I was shocked that Meddler said they were about to make it even crappier than it already is because apparently there is some scenario that I have not personally experienced since the scuttle changes where junglers are getting more experience than laners.

13 Comments

TormentulaNov 5, 20184 votes

Revert back to 3 camps for level 3 and revert crab.

Jungle will instantly become less reliant on level 2 cheese, and the jungler pool opens up to champs that function level 3 properly rather then what can flat out gain river priorty in champ select or race for a 4 camp clear since 1 camp lost on blue side completely sets you behind and most junglers don't farm 5 raptors well.

SlythionNov 5, 20184 votes

You do that and one of two things are likely to happen, depending on how hard you buff xp:

You get those juicy level 3 ganks while lanes are still levels 1 or 2 like we saw earlier this year or
You get power farmers like Shyvana/Udyr dominating the jungle again and coming out 4 levels ahead of everyone with no counterplay

ModWulf HelhammerNov 5, 20185 votes

It's like people don't even remember the reason why Riot made the scuttle changes.

PapaGreg21Nov 6, 20181 votes

They made them because laners were complaining of getting ganked early. Now they get ganked earlier than ever because jungle exp sucks and the only way to stay leveled is camping lanes immediately. Plus scuttle killed jungle diversity so the only people being played in the jungle are ones that can blow you up level 2.

TormentulaNov 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You do that and one of two things are likely to happen, depending on how hard you buff xp:

You get those juicy level 3 ganks while lanes are still levels 1 or 2 like we saw earlier this year

Increase early minion XP for level 3 laners, no reason to fucking destroy half the jungle (especially when the jungle was like this for seasons.)

Or alternatively increase the time it takes for level 3 via increasing camp health/removing buff negative resistances, rather then forcing an extra jungle camp that you can be completely denied off, forcing awkward pathing.

You get power farmers like Shyvana/Udyr dominating the jungle again and coming out 4 levels ahead of everyone with no counterplay

Last state the jungle was in, neither of those two were strong. Udyr was last strong when item 3512 item 1402 was a thing, and shyvana was strong after her mini-rework, completely fell out of existance, then the jungle changes when through and shyvana spiked in playability as one of the few junglers that liked the more farm reliant meta and the introduction of PTA... only to be nerfed for whatever reason a patch later and completely outclassed by even earlier strength champs like camille and taliyah when those showed up.

The junglers being played before the changes were Evelynn Khazix Elise LeeSin Kayn XinZhao Warwick Trundle Graves Nidalee Rengar RekSai JarvanIV Sejuani

now its Graves Evelynn Nidalee Taliyah Camille XinZhao and everything that wasn't viable before got shittier.

SlythionNov 5, 20181 votes

increase early minion XP for level 3 laners, no reason to fucking destroy half the jungle (especially when the jungle was like this for seasons.)

and cuck most early-game focused laners and forcing a late-game focuses match every game? Hell nah. You have to understand that levels 1-4 dictate how the lane will go in a lot of matchups, and if you shorten the time for champions to grab a lead during those levels then there's no point anymore. That change would be awful.

Or alternatively increase the time it takes for level 3 via increasing camp health/removing buff negative resistances

You can say goodbye to any slow-clear junglers like Amumu, Zac, Taliyah (maybe), and they'll just be invaded constantly by junglers who automatically have a 1 to 2 level lead on them by 7mins

Uh, before scuttle the jungle was completely dominated by Warwick and Skarner. Elise hasn't been meta in a long ass time, as well as Trundle. Nidalee and Reksai meta in solo queue? Hell naw. Udyr had the highest winrate in the jungle at one point before jungle changes so idk why you say he wasn't strong. If you're talking about the meta where Warwick and Skarner were the only 2 viable picks at one point then you're trolling with the other options lol.

Anyways, balancing the jungle is harder than you think and it's not as simple as any of the changes you've suggested

PapaGreg21Nov 6, 20181 votes

I've not seen any jungler get a level 3 gank on a level 1 laner unless it is an extreme circumstance in all the years I have played.
The jungle exp is lower than it ever has been right now. Nobody is calling for it to be more powerful than it has been in years past, just similar and more than it is presently. It definitely needs more of a buff than it has right now. Udyr and Shyvana have always been balanced except for when they released jungle items that cause the issues. Exp gains have never made them overpowered.

Like you said, it depends on how hard you buff it. I think you took my suggestion as hyperbole that the exp gains should be very high. I'm just saying they should be brought in line with what we have had historically. I would argue that laners should simply get longer lasting trinket wards for vision in the early game and that would solve level 3 ganks.

Cloud273Nov 5, 20183 votes

Can we also revert krugs please? Make it so there's only 2 krugs instead of the stupid baby ones that pop out and just waste your time.

PapaGreg21Nov 6, 20181 votes

Agreed. Krugs are miserable.

Rock MDNov 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Jungle experience sucks right now. I was shocked that Meddler said they were about to make it even crappier than it already is because apparently there is some scenario that I have not personally experienced since the scuttle changes where junglers are getting more experience than laners.

I experience it 9/10 games in high elo. It's a consistent occurrence in ~D3-D2.