This item CANT make it onto live

M Schumacher·Jun 27, 2015·6 votes·763 views

[New] Enchantment: Sated Devourer Transforms from Enchantment: Devourer after obtaining 30 stacks. Stats: 50% Attack Speed 60 Magic Damage on hit Unique Passive - Phantom Hit: Every other basic attack will trigger a phantom attack that triggers all on hit effects a second time. [Note: ALL on hit effects are doubled by Phantom Hit- this includes things like Master Yi's E true damage or items like Ravenous Hydra.] '''

And everyone thought 420weedwick was bad. Yi will be absolutely broken.

25 Comments

ArsamesJun 27, 20152 votes

Nope, l2p, that item is balanced.

3TWarriorJun 27, 20151 votes

lol, look at my post about Elise in this thread

WalkingInACircleJun 27, 20152 votes

Yi will remain a glass cannon best countered by holding your cc until after he uses his q. No matter how much damage he does.

I, for one, look forward to a new item mechanic rather than another sheen rehash.

3TWarriorJun 27, 20151 votes

well, that remains to be seen...I urge you to look at my post in this thread about Elise

3TWarriorJun 27, 20152 votes

okay, imagine elise using this...

60% of AP (from doubled use on her whatever ability) (multiplied by 3) + 15 flat magic damage(nashor's) (multiplied by 3) + 15% AP (nashors) (multiplied by 3) + 5% ap (masteries)(multiplied by 3), + 60 magic damage(jungle item)(multiplied by 3) + 100% AP from 5 spiders + 30 magic damage(spider form)(multiplied by 3)

on a base of 500 ap, this comes to 2015 (omg...is this a joke rito...) magic damage on just her auto attacks alone with the spiders

throw in a spider and a Q and it's a guaranteed kill on a high priority target and she can duel even a tank and come out victorious

and that's just elise...

FluffehPoroJun 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

okay, imagine elise using this...

60% of AP (from doubled use on her whatever ability) (multiplied by 3) + 15 flat magic damage(nashor's) (multiplied by 3) + 15% AP (nashors) (multiplied by 3) + 5% ap (masteries)(multiplied by 3), + 60 magic damage(jungle item)(multiplied by 3) + 100% AP from 5 spiders + 30 magic damage(spider form)(multiplied by 3)

on a base of 500 ap, this comes to 2015 (omg...is this a joke rito...) magic damage on just her auto attacks alone with the spiders

throw in a spider and a Q and it's a guaranteed kill on a high priority target and she can duel even a tank and come out victorious

and that's just elise...

So Elise will come back finally? Awesome. But I think Yi and WW will still be scary since Elise is easy to burst down if she does not build tanky.

Matthias9119Jun 27, 20151 votes

Elise's spiderlings do not apply on-hit effects. She would be super-broken already with Nashor's if this was the case.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Elise#Spider_Swarm

The Spiderlings attacks do not apply spell effects. The Spiderlings attacks do not apply on-hit effects.

Yi might be pretty terrifying, though more because of his passive than his E.

3TWarriorJun 27, 20151 votes

I didn't say elise's spiderlings applied on hit effects..., her spiderlings do up to 15 + 10% ap or something like that, that comes to up to 50% ap, doubled in the auto attack time to 100% of ap (included in my calculations except for their base damage)

Matthias9119Jun 28, 20151 votes

I don't understand your calculation, then. Why did you multiply everything by 3?

3TWarriorJun 28, 20151 votes

because you hit once and then the next attack hits twice. I didn't multiply everything, only on hit effects. the spiderlings are given that they are going to get 2 hits in about the same amount of time it takes you to hit them

Matthias9119Jul 2, 20151 votes

That's effectively 3 on-hits for every 2 you'd get without the item -- a 50% increase (1.5x what you'd get without it), not a 200% one!

3TWarriorJul 2, 20151 votes

where do any of my posts say 200%?

Matthias9119Jul 2, 20151 votes

You should be multiplying by 1.5, not 3.

3TWarriorJul 2, 20151 votes

sigh 1 auto attack, one on hit proc, next auto attack, 2 on hit procs, 3, the damage comes out the same

60% (for elise's active effect) * 3 = 180% 60% *2 hits = 120% * 1.5 = 180%

realistically with elise, you only have time to pull off these two auto attacks in team fight phase

yes, I understand where you are confused, I am stating total damage, not the damage on one hit

either way, 50% is a substantial increase for her on hit damage total

Matthias9119Jul 2, 20151 votes

Was saying that so hard? Really helps to explain WTF you're talking about.

The problem is that unless you build her glass cannon, you're not getting anywhere near 500AP (you have one fewer AP item if you build Devourer, plus Nashor's doesn't have a ton of AP either.)

If she can stack both her steroids, and she has all her spiders, yeah, she's not gonna be fun to go toe-to-toe with for the next few seconds. That's kind of the point. But most champs can deal a lot of sustained damage when they build glass cannon -- many of them at range.

3TWarriorJul 2, 20151 votes

500 ap is the IDEAL mix between offense and defense, typically if you build a tanky elise, you will get 400 but not 500 unless you skip boots

400 * 3.7(total possible ap on hit modifications with elise) = 1480 magic damage if you include nashor's and spiderlings for 2 hits with elise (and as I stated previously, spiderlings attack independently and will typically hit twice in the same amount of time elise takes to hit twice)

also, if you skip nashor's and instead go for another item, you can hit 500 ap easily and still have an off-tank build typical of most mages

for instance, 2 rod of ages, 1 zhonya's, one abyssal scepter or spirit visage, one rabadon's and boots of choice and you hit 520 ap or more with an extra 1300 hp/1750 hp, 1300 MP, and some defensive stats

Matthias9119Jul 3, 20151 votes

for instance, 2 rod of ages, 1 zhonya's, one abyssal scepter or spirit visage, one rabadon's and boots of choice and you hit 520 ap or more with an extra 1300 hp/1750 hp, 1300 MP, and some defensive stats

...except then you don't have a Nashor's, nor a Devourer, and your whole argument about the excessive on-hit magic damage is moot.

It's easy to hit 500AP if you build Rabadon's and four other high-AP items. If you take one item with 0 AP and one item with 60AP, you're not going to get anywhere near there unless you build glass cannon. At which point, yeah, you'd better be dealing a lot of damage in exchange for building no defensive items!

Not taking her steroids or spiderlings into account, with Devourer and Nashor's she deals (at max level):

(40 + .3AP) + (15 + .15AP) + (60) + .05AP

(115 + .5AP)

magic damage per hit. With her Rappel steroid that increases to:

(80 + .6AP) + (15 + .15AP) + (60) + (.05AP)

(145 + .8AP)

for 5 seconds.

Devourer's new passive effectively increases those by 50%, or:

(173 + .75AP) per hit without Rappel (218 + 1.2AP) per hit with Rappel

Her base AS is 0.625, and she has +29.8%AS at level 18. So with Devourer and Nashor's, she has 0.625 x 2.298 = 1.43 attacks/sec. Her W active gives her 140% of her base AS, or another .875 attacks/sec. (a total of ~2.3 attacks/sec.)

Let's say that, for argument's sake, she magically has 500AP at the same time. Then her on-hit DPS would be:

(173 + .75AP) x 1.43 = 784 (no steroids) (173 + .75AP) x 2.3 = 1260 (W steroid only) (218 + 1.2AP) x 1.43 = 1170 (E steroid only) (218 + 1.2AP) x 2.3 = 1882 (W+E steroids)

Now, I think that more realistically you're looking at something closer to 300AP with both Devourer and Nashor's, which gives:

569DPS 915DPS 823DPS 1330DPS

in those same situations respectively.

This means that In a full build the new Devourer passive is really only worth 190-262DPS to her without her steroids (and not taking enemy MR into account). She's just scary in the best case because she has two steroids that stack multiplicatively with on-hit damage. Nashor's also lets her double down on AP-scaling on-hit damage.

Her spiderlings add to her DPS on top of this, but Nashor's/Devourer's don't interact with them at all.

3TWarriorJul 3, 20151 votes

okay, your math is sound and I did overlook devourer because i'm not used to including jungle items in builds

so it depends upon how you would rather build her, if you build optimal AP magic damage

devourer, 1 zhonya, 1 void staff, 1 abyssal scepter(depending upon if you would prefer the magic pen or not, you could change this to Nashor's) 1 rabadon's and boots of choice, probably magic pen so you can have Nashor's for the offensive stats

it comes to (depending upon if riot changes zhonya's to 100 ap or not) 100/120 + 70 + 60 + 120 )) * 1.4 from rabadon's and masteries, this comes to 478 ap for optimal magic penetration or 646 if you sacrifice boots for another rabadons or etc, the numbers vary so keep 478 in mind

which closely resembles the figures you provided

if you choose optimal AP Values(which is probably the least effective depending upon if you keep boots or not(though boots are an absolute for most if not all players), the maximum ap you could achieve with devourers and boots is dependent upon the function of the build, for instance, with pure AP, (4 rabadons, since it will likely be the only 120 ap item left after the changes), comes to 672 or 840 if you sacrifice boots

478 * ( 0.50AP(with masteries and nashors) * 3) = 717 + 345(nashor's and elise's passive and devour's magic damage ) + 1.0(478 AP)(spiders)(again, i'm calculating for elise's total damage) +40( x 5 spiders * two hits = (400) + 200 AD = 2140 total damage and another 120 free damage from her innate magic damage on hit for 2260, 2060 of which is magic damage and that's before the steroids for just two hits, now if you add .9 AP from the additional 30% * 3 on hit procs, you have 2690 (or 2470 in magic damage)) before she even casts her spell as the finisher

if you take the maximum AP approach not including nashor's or boots for a total of 840

840 AP * .9(3 procs of passive) + 840(spiderlings) + 400(spiderlings) + 180 (devourer magic damage) + 120 (elise's passive magic damage) + 126 (5% mastery 3x) + 200 AD = 2506 total damage

now calculating the doubled ap ratio on her passive because of the active, it comes to 3378 damage before reductions

i'll list the 300 ap including nashor's and devourer as well

300 * 1.8 + 300(spiderlings) + 400(spiderlings) + 135(nashor's ap ratio) + 180 (devourer magic damage) + 120(elise's passive base magic damage) + 45(5% mastery 3x), + 45 (nashor's base 15 damage) + 200 AD = 1965 damage before reductions before spells

in short, it is a tremendous amount of free damage regardless of her build and each build would have its own advantages and drawbacks depending upon what the player wanted and of course their team composition with Elise

there may be other junglers/laners that benefit more from the hit effects(such as master yi, who many have mentioned and frequently builds glass cannon)

but this item seems to target many of the underused junglers and buff them to ungodly levels of damage once they actually obtain the item, which I think should be somewhere around 25 minutes into the game if they build the jungle item as their first completed item

also, I wish riot would reformat the way the forum posts are stacked

Matthias9119Jul 4, 20151 votes

Glass cannon Elise does a lot of damage when she is able to stack both her steroids. No argument.

She does that even without Devourer, though! What you'd have to show in terms of this item being broken is that it is WAY more cost-effective and/or slot-efficient than anything else you could build on her. In a realistic build it's only worth a few hundred DPS at full build, and it doesn't affect her spells at all. And she's probably the best case for it because of her passive.

Woop PandamoniumJun 27, 20152 votes

if you guys think this item is balanced your delusional ; Vayne can proc her silver bolts EVERY 2ND AUTOATTACk that alone tell you this item is going to break the game

JustMyBassCannonJun 27, 20154 votes

Because Vayne is totally going to buy a jungle item with one worthwhile stat and farm 30 monsters/15 kills for the sake of Silver Bolts. Please, let me know how that wasted >2k gold works for you.

SyndrarellaJun 27, 20153 votes

[deleted]

JustMyBassCannonJun 27, 20153 votes

{quoted}

If it's Jungle Vayne of course she will.

Alright, let me know how well jungle Vayne works out for you. No defense--also the 6th lowest level 1 HP--no sustain, a single dash every 6 seconds to slightly delay monsters' damage output, and no AoE.