You mean before she hits level 3 and you get punished for existing next to terrain? Then proceed to get punished for being auto attacked 3 times.
Or you can pick a champ that actually punishes her range in lane knowing full well it won't matter because she outscales you x10.
Gunslinger74420 votesAs someone who enjoys lane bully adcs such as Caitlyn and Draven but also a fair bit of Ezreal and Vayne, I feel I've got a good bit of experience on the matter of Vayne being OP or not.
In my opinion, she's not.
Vayne's strength lies in her slippery dueling potential, in the early game she needs to farm, level 2 all-ins from Leona, pressure from Blitz or Thresh and constant harass from Draven or Cait will hinder that so much it's not even funny. Notice that I don't add Lucian to the list, because even though he is a lane bully, his abilities push the lane easily, causing a very advantageous situation for Vayne. Also Vayne's catchphrase "Black Magicks" and that hurts the poor man's feelings.
If by level 4 you're a good bit ahead in farm you can generally consider the lane won, keep the pressure up and be careful once she gets Cutlass, as this is where extended fights can quickly be turned around.
In the midgame, Vayne shines as the typical ADC. Her DPS is great, she's good great chasing and teamfighting and it's just bad news if you can't catch her in time. This is by far her most volatile stage, this stage makes or breaks Vayne's endgame potential. Focus her, kill her. Plonk down pinks and oracles and for the love of god don't splitpush alone unless you've got the whole map lit up like a christmas tree or have a VERY good escape plan.
In my experience there's a few major iterations of late-game Vayne, and it seems to mostly depend on playstyle and how well the Vayne did early and mid game:
The Assassin: This is the most high risk, high reward playstyle and usually played when Vayne got fed early/mid and did very well in general. When 5 to 6-slotted Vayne is able to single a target out and smash them before they even realise what the fuck just happened. Usually played by the most mechanically skilled and confident of Vaynes. CCing may help against this Vayne, but the chance of Cleanse or QSS being in her arsenal may make that redundant. Never travel alone.
The Teamfighter: Same as any adc, but with a scary amount of chase and damage. This Vayne did average to decently well throughout the game and is not confident enough to roam for a pick, therefor she sticks with the team and tries to launch skirmishes which are quickly won with Silver Bolts and Tumble. Should a full-blown teamfight break out, these Vaynes pop ult and dart around the teamfight hitting whatever they're comfortable with hitting until whatever they're hitting dies or they die themselves. Handle as any other adc: with CC and focus.
The Splitpusher: Vayne's dueling potential is quite crazy, but this is arguably the weakest playstyle which Vaynes often wrongly force themselves into after a bad early and mid game. They'll splitpush as much as possible, dueling whoever comes to stop them. Keep in mind that these Vaynes are usually underfed and underleveled and are trying desperately to catch up by shoving the nearest lane. Avoid 1v1s, engage with a teammate and keep her from the farm. Turn it into a mini laning phase. Or simply engage their team 4v5 and get a free fight.
That's all I've got on the Night Hunter, keep in mind that this is my personal experience and opinion. And so it will probably differ from most.
Sentinel Hydra1 votesHi, I just bought 
recently, and I was wondering: What should you do as when she falls behind? And if she is equal in xp and gold to the enemy adc, would she be able to 1v1 then after she has 
Gunslinger7443 votesWhen Vayne falls behind it's usually best to focus on farming and transition into early skirmishes. Careful around teamfights however. In the late late game you'll outscale most champs anyway, so just defend and don't fall further behind.
After she has BoTrk Vayne's dueling potential skyrockets, but that doesn't mean she's up to speed yet. Most adcs will still shit on you in a straight up 1v1 at this stage. Go for quick Silver Bolt trades to outdamage your opponent and take em offguard with an agressive Tumble into a Condemn.
S2C2Xd9KOy12 votesI just posted this on a different discussion literally like 4 above this and I'm fine with copy and pasting it.
"Ugh. she doesn't need a nerf. every 3rd post is someone complaining about her. Either stop being bad at adc, counter pick her, play support and be GOOD or jungle and focus bot for the first few minutes and put her behind. She's honestly terrible. Its possible to play around EVERY champion. You can make Riven absolutely useless, you can make Vayne useless.... Rek'Sai, Viktor, Rumble, Sivir, Thresh, Nidalee. You can make any champion feed and be useless"
I almost never lost to Vayne in lane, whether my support is duo or not and I'm not even an adc main. People lose to her because they don't understand how to freeze and don't punish positional errors and are too afraid to put her behind. They see that they're against a Vayne and they cry about it, meanwhile imo she's one of the easiest adc's to win lane against because as soon as she's behind her build is so slow and you shouldn't have an issue out-kiting and out farming her.
I could say the exact same for people who I see complain about champions like Gnar. Pick Riven. Pick Irelia. There are such easy ways to win your lane that people completely ignore. No. You will not win lane every time purely with counter picks, but if you counter pick and they aren't this God-Tier player on that specific champion (at least compared to you), then you should win lane.
Enough said.
MakersF10 votesHow can a champion be considered weak early(to compensate for the late game hypercarrying) if you need to be 3v2 to put It behind? Every champ can be but behind in a 3v2 situation. If you are weak early you should be put behind in 2v2 (twitch for example). Try playing veigar: that's a champ that's weak early. You can lose to him only if you make mistakes, and eventually you'll get outscaled. But vayne can perfectly win trades and win all-ins at levels 3-6. That's not weak early in my book.
Counterpicking is not counter play. Riot stated that multiple times. And if the Fotm is Gnar, and it's played in 70% of the games, I don't want to be forced to pick Irelia (or whatever champ I don't like) 70% of the games. I know I can have an hard lane, but it should not happen that a player with 5 games on gnar beats me with 100 games on X. That means that that specific champ is OP (it's strong even when played badly against a good player).
NOTE: I defined what op is. I'm NOT stating Vayne or Gnar are OP
LaceUp233 votesCounterpicking IS counterplay, though. I don't care what rito tries to say, but the fact that they make champs have different kits itself is a form of counterplay. Counterplay for Vayne would be picking someone really strong early and trying to punish her so badly that the game would have to last a long time for her to surpass you. Well, in order to do that, you have to counterpick. That is part of the strategy to winning the game. I hate how they are taking all the strategy that the game was founded on and trying to make it smite.
Also, if you lose to someone with 5 games Gnar on a champ you have over 100 games on, there isn't a problem with the champ as much as it is your skill with the champ you are playing lol (assuming closely related skill).
Stackless Python2 votesCounterpicking IS counterplay, though. I don't care what rito tries to say, but the fact that they make champs have different kits itself is a form of counterplay. Counterplay for Vayne would be picking someone really strong early and trying to punish her so badly that the game would have to last a long time for her to surpass you. Well, in order to do that, you have to counterpick. That is part of the strategy to winning the game. I hate how they are taking all the strategy that the game was founded on and trying to make it smite.
Also, if you lose to someone with 5 games Gnar on a champ you have over 100 games on, there isn't a problem with the champ as much as it is your skill with the champ you are playing lol (assuming closely related skill).
Yes counter picking is important, but so is the team as a whole. If a team picks 3 tanky or off-tank champions to counter pick the other team, but that team then also picks Vayne, she is going to do her job; killing tanks with W.
LaceUp232 votesYeah? That is a good decision. That is what they should do.
Dextix LT9 votesYou have a weak early?
"Tell me about it"
Posui Gart8 votesJust dont stand next to terrain and poke her, punish her for every minion she dares to lasthit. Pick Cait+Sona and just watch that Vayne lose 1/3 of her hp for a cs. Or pick an all-in combo, like Graves-Leona, and kill her every time Leona hits her E. Or pick a jungler who can gank her easily, like Vi or Elise. Or pick a jungler who makes her life hell, like Rengar. Or pick a mage/assassin with no skillshots who can oneshot her or just CC her for long enough, like Malzahar. Or pick Yi and stack devourer. So much to do with her, but no, its easier to whine than to learn
M Schumacher13 votes[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-12T07:39:44.568+0000)
Just dont stand next to terrain and poke her, punish her for every minion she dares to lasthit. Pick Cait+Sona and just watch that Vayne lose 1/3 of her hp for a cs. Or pick an all-in combo, like Graves-Leona, and kill her every time Leona hits her E. Or pick a jungler who can gank her easily, like Vi or Elise. Or pick a jungler who makes her life hell, like Rengar. Or pick a mage/assassin with no skillshots who can oneshot her or just CC her for long enough, like Malzahar. Or pick Yi and stack devourer. So much to do with her, but no, its easier to whine than to learn
"Don't stand next to terrain" Well gee thats going to be easy when its not all around the ENTIRE MAP
"Pick Cait + Sona" Cait is only good vs her in lane, has a horrible mid game, and is no where near as strong late. Sona is also pretty awful vs a lot of the popular supports in the game.
"Pick Rengar" Rengar won't do shit to her once their team starts grouping if you aren't already immensely ahead.
She's broken and needs to be toned down.
Posui Gart5 votesWell gee thats going to be easy when its not all around the ENTIRE MAP
You just have to stand so she cant E you, or Q-E you, that is not that hard on lane
Cait is only good vs her in lane
If she ends laning phase with 2x Vayne's farm-its enough. And there are other poke ADCs, like Varus
Sona is also pretty awful vs a lot of the popular supports in the game.
Ok, pick Lulu/Thresh, same reason: she walks in for CS and she pays for it
Rengar won't do shit to her once their team starts grouping if you aren't already immensely ahead.
He oneshots her in a jump, after that its 4x5 without Vayne. And its really easy to oneshot her with ANY non-skillshot assassin, Rengar is just an example of jungler who counters her completely (he sees her in her ult)
And she is not even close to being top ban/top pick
M Schumacher9 votes[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-08-12T07:58:46.619+0000)
You just have to stand so she cant E you, or Q-E you, that is not that hard on lane
If she ends laning phase with 2x Vayne's farm-its enough. And there are other poke ADCs, like Varus
Ok, pick Lulu/Thresh, same reason: she walks in for CS and she pays for it
He oneshots her in a jump, after that its 4x5 without Vayne. And its really easy to oneshot her with ANY non-skillshot assassin, Rengar is just an example of jungler who counters her completely (he sees her in her ult)
And she is not even close to being top ban/top pick
Rengar ONLY 1 shots her if hes fed.
If you have 2x Vaynes CS that means that Vayne is bad and would have lost lane anyway (jungle influence, etc)
A good Vayne will dodge thresh hooks with ease.
She has the HIGHEST pick rate in the game a win rate above 50%. On a so called "hard to play" ADC. Its obvious she needs nerfs.
Posui Gart2 votesOk, you win, Vayne is uncounterable and deserves nerfs, I can't argue any more, it comes to "If you oneshot her, she is just bad", "If you can poke her-she is just bad" and so on. Meanwhile we have Elise, Nidalee, Rengar, Irelia and Shyvana as top bans, and only Elise is getting some nerfs in next patch, but OK, Vayne is definitely more OP
bad manner kid5 votes[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T08:07:59.432+0000)
Ok, you win, Vayne is uncounterable and deserves nerfs, I can't argue any more, it comes to "If you oneshot her, she is just bad", "If you can poke her-she is just bad" and so on. Meanwhile we have Elise, Nidalee, Rengar, Irelia and Shyvana as top bans, and only Elise is getting some nerfs in next patch, but OK, Vayne is definitely more OP
silver bolts combo x2 > every burst combo in the game > silver bolts combo x1 > every poke in the game.
Top bans = Riot can't balance items. Vayne gets to play every game.
Posui Gart2 votessilver bolts combo x2 > every burst combo in the game > silver bolts combo x1 > every poke in the game.
Oh god, it is so wrong in too much points First: silver bolts combo is NOT a poke. It has 500 range. Poke is something long-ranged, so it can be used from afar without a chance to respond. And when that Vayne takes some real poke(like Xerath's Q with Luden proc, that can be casted from like 3x her attack range)-she loses like 50% of her hp and can not do anything about it Second: 2 silver bolts procs are like 40+8% max hp at 1st level, and 120+16% max hp at last level. All other damage is from autoattacks and her Q. Its definitely not ">every burst combo in the game" Third: If Vayne is so op, why isn't she banned often?
bad manner kid6 votes[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T08:41:48.339+0000)
Oh god, it is so wrong in too much points First: silver bolts combo is NOT a poke. It has 500 range. Poke is something long-ranged, so it can be used from afar without a chance to respond. And when that Vayne takes some real poke(like Xerath's Q with Luden proc, that can be casted from like 3x her attack range)-she loses like 50% of her hp and can not do anything about it Second: 2 silver bolts procs are like 40+8% max hp at 1st level, and 120+16% max hp at last level. All other damage is from autoattacks and her Q. Its definitely not ">every burst combo in the game" Third: If Vayne is so op, why isn't she banned often?
NO YOU ARE WRONG.
You don't even understand that to create orange juice you have to plant an orange bush.
This is the problem with your generation, you take every thing for granted. When I was a kid If I wanted chicken fingers I had to murder the local sissy and fry his fingers myself. 10 miles uphill each way to school was only the beginning of our hardships.
Vayne is basically satan reincarnated as the ad carry. Everything she does is evil and anytime you use a Vayne ability you vote for Hillary Clinton.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Posui Gart2 votesWow, too much valid arguments for me. I guess you win.
Sentinel Hydra3 votesI agree on the point that does NOT have poke or burst, however in the case where an 
Q's her for half her health, can't she just lifesteal it back up? ( is a core item on her, and if has 
, will probably have ) And if the has decent reflexes, she will tumble out of the Q. Other than that Vayne isn't op, just my thoughts.
M Schumacher4 votes[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T08:07:59.432+0000)
Ok, you win, Vayne is uncounterable and deserves nerfs, I can't argue any more, it comes to "If you oneshot her, she is just bad", "If you can poke her-she is just bad" and so on. Meanwhile we have Elise, Nidalee, Rengar, Irelia and Shyvana as top bans, and only Elise is getting some nerfs in next patch, but OK, Vayne is definitely more OP
I never said she was uncounterable.
Having a counter doesn't make a champion balanced.
LOL
Stackless Python1 votes[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T08:01:52.413+0000)
Rengar ONLY 1 shots her if hes fed.
If you have 2x Vaynes CS that means that Vayne is bad and would have lost lane anyway (jungle influence, etc)
A good Vayne will dodge thresh hooks with ease.
She has the HIGHEST pick rate in the game a win rate above 50%. On a so called "hard to play" ADC. Its obvious she needs nerfs.
The most pick champion is STILL Thresh, not Vayne. Now if you want to talk about other ADCs for a minute, Jinx is the third most picked champion at 24.31% pick rate AND a 53.05% win rate.
So two ADCs are at the top of the list for most picked champions, and Jinx, not Vayne, as a higher win rate, and more damage dealt on average; how very interesting.
http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend
It would seem like Jinx players are winning that Vayne vs Jinx bot lane, but then doing more damage then the person who "out-scales them 10x" in the late game.
But this is just actually information and not "punished for existing next to terrain" or "punished for being auto attacked 3 times" which is clearly a better argument, and has nothing to do with champion skill/understanding.
Please, feel free to downvote this post OP because that will make you right and me wrong.
M Schumacher3 votesThe most pick champion is STILL Thresh, not Vayne. Now if you want to talk about other ADCs for a minute, Jinx is the third most picked champion at 24.31% pick rate AND a 53.05% win rate.
So two ADCs are at the top of the list for most picked champions, and Jinx, not Vayne, as a higher win rate, and more damage dealt on average; how very interesting.
http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend
It would seem like Jinx players are winning that Vayne vs Jinx bot lane, but then doing more damage then the person who "out-scales them 10x" in the late game.
But this is just actually information and not "punished for existing next to terrain" or "punished for being auto attacked 3 times" which is clearly a better argument, and has nothing to do with champion skill/understanding.
Please, feel free to downvote this post OP because that will make you right and me wrong.
You've clearly never played against a good Vayne.
Stackless Python2 votes[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=000100010000000000020000,timestamp=2015-08-12T20:14:39.378+0000)
You've clearly never played against a good Vayne.
Wow, what a great argument. How could anyone in bronze possibly compare two champions based on numbers and not skill. After all, being bronze means you suck at everyone in life and not just a single video game right?
M Schumacher2 votesWow, what a great argument. How could anyone in bronze possibly compare two champions based on numbers and not skill. After all, being bronze means you suck at everyone in life and not just a single video game right?
No it just means you aren't really in a position to comment on game balance when are you are in the bottom 6% of the community skill wise. Numbers aren't everything if you don't see them in practice.
Stackless Python3 votes[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=00010001000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T20:19:19.793+0000)
No it just means you aren't really in a position to comment on game balance when are you are in the bottom 6% of the community skill wise. Numbers aren't everything if you don't see them in practice.
And yet you, a Gold 5 player, the best in the world, are in a position to talk about game balance right? If you want to use that kind of logic then only professional player should talk about balance, and everyone else is just too garbage to understand because they never played against (insert popular Korean adc here).
The fact that you think someone shouldn't talk about balance because of their rank, tell me that this post is a QQ thread by a person who suck at playing against Vayne and refuses to let anyone say otherwise.
M Schumacher1 votesAnd yet you, a Gold 5 player, the best in the world, are in a position to talk about game balance right? If you want to use that kind of logic then only professional player should talk about balance, and everyone else is just too garbage to understand because they never played against (insert popular Korean adc here).
The fact that you think someone shouldn't talk about balance because of their rank, tell me that this post is a QQ thread by a person who suck at playing against Vayne and refuses to let anyone say otherwise.
The difference between Bronze 5 and even Bronze 1 skill wise is immense
Stackless Python2 votes[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=0001000100000000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T20:25:50.274+0000)
The difference between Bronze 5 and even Bronze 1 skill wise is immense
And even more so between Gold and Challenger. Your argument is falling apart, you keep bring up how YOU are bad vs Vayne and try and play it off like everyone has these problems, but you wont accept actually information that says otherwise.
M Schumacher2 votesAnd even more so between Gold and Challenger. Your argument is falling apart, you keep bring up how YOU are bad vs Vayne and try and play it off like everyone has these problems, but you wont accept actually information that says otherwise.
l0l
pls
Haunt4 votesAnd even more so between Gold and Challenger. Your argument is falling apart, you keep bring up how YOU are bad vs Vayne and try and play it off like everyone has these problems, but you wont accept actually information that says otherwise.
The difference is that almost EVERYONE thinks Vayne is too strong, so what you're saying doesn't really matter. Everyone complains about the same shit with her, nobody likes seeing her in their game, but unfortunately she is literally the most picked champion right now by more than 5%.
https://i.gyazo.com/b3e517378051ea97ce01a59fb400d2e4.png
Let's stop pretending she has zero flaws and doesn't need any form of nerf.
Gorgannan1 votesLet's wait until the tanks leave, and then we'll see her win rate drop, no nerfs needed. Ok?
Partholonian1 votesYou do, however, need some armor items that don't completely suck.
M Schumacher1 votesYou do, however, need some armor items that don't completely suck.
Oh you built Armor?
lol silver bolts
TCU Dushi8 votesRead through the thread and wasn't going to say anything because i know my opinion isn't popular but what the heck, here goes.
Vayne is only ever considered "OP" in low-mid elo. Hence you hardly ever see her played in LCS/LCK/LPL
Their are multiple reasons as to why Vayne is so strong in low-mid elo and it has everything to do with the general skill level of the players there, not how strong the champion is.
Examples :
-Wrong choice of Lane/Matchups (Cait/Blitz against a Vayne/Janna lane rofl) -No form of hard cc on your team -Playing bot lane as if you are not playing against a hypercarry -No jungle focus on the botlane early -No use of pink ward/oracle lens -Not buying Frozen Heart -Not using Exhaust -Not focusing Vayne during teamfights
The list goes on.
There is plenty of counterplay when it comes to vayne and like any other hypercarry, if you let them scale up they'll destroy you unless you play the game as its intended.
I feel like people are on a crusade, Vayne is not allowed to win games because if she does = to strong/OP
Hope this gave you some insight.
best regards, Dushi
M Schumacher6 votes[{quoted}](name=M4A1 Dushi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-08-12T08:58:51.541+0000)
Read through the thread and wasn't going to say anything because i know my opinion isn't popular but what the heck, here goes.
Vayne is only ever considered "OP" in low-mid elo. Hence you hardly ever see her played in LCS/LCK/LPL
Their are multiple reasons as to why Vayne is so strong in low-mid elo and it has everything to do with the general skill level of the players there, not how strong the champion is.
Examples :
-Wrong choice of Lane/Matchups (Cait/Blitz against a Vayne/Janna lane rofl) -No form of hard cc on your team -Playing bot lane as if you are not playing against a hypercarry -No jungle focus on the botlane early -No use of pink ward/oracle lens -Not buying Frozen Heart -Not using Exhaust -Not focusing Vayne during teamfights
The list goes on.
There is plenty of counterplay when it comes to vayne and like any other hypercarry, if you let them scale up they'll destroy you unless you play the game as its intended.
I feel like people are on a crusade, Vayne is not allowed to win games because if she does = to strong/OP
Hope this gave you some insight.
best regards, Dushi
Yep shes only good in low elo, which is why her win rate in Diamond+ is hovering at 53% as the MOST PICKED CHAMPION.
She's balanced though because certain champs can kill her right? LOL
TCU Dushi4 votes[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-08-12T09:10:23.574+0000)
Yep shes only good in low elo, which is why her win rate in Diamond+ is hovering at 53% as the MOST PICKED CHAMPION.
She's balanced though because certain champs can kill her right? LOL
You either don't understand it or you are selectively reading through my post.
I never said Vayne isn't a good champion nor have i stated "she is balanced because certain champs can kill her"
You simply refuse to accept that there is plenty of counter play to vayne and she isn't a problem at all if you understand how this game is supposed to be played. Hardly any champion is a problem because there is more than enough room for counterplay.
Hence you normally don't get Diamond + players complain about vayne and in all my Diamond games i've seen vayne banned 2-3 times.
Unfortunately Diamond 2-5 isn't high elo either and plenty of mistakes are made hence vayne has the ability to get a decent winrate even in that bracket. But i can promise you she isn't as dominant in Diamond as she should be if you are right about her being so strong.
She isn't popular in the professional scene, ask yourself why if she's as OP and broken as you claim her to be.
ps. The only real balance issue League has that constantly hunts us is certain items being borderline OP on X champion. No need to nerf the champion because the item should be fixed.
S2C2Xd9KOy4 votesThere need to be more people like you on these forums lol. Sick of people complaining about every champion that stomps bronze.
TCU Dushi3 votesThere need to be more people like you on these forums lol. Sick of people complaining about every champion that stomps bronze.
Thanks for your kind words and god bless
S2C2Xd9KOy2 votes<3
Kuma No Neko10 votesTCU Dushi3 votes
- Hard CC counters everyone but Olaf and Gangplank, it's not a unique weakness to Vayne so using it to say it makes her weaker is dumb
- Pink warding is useful, but that doesn't get rid of her huge AD buff,tumble and move speed buff
- Frozen Heart is not only usually not even worth it cause she's out of range, even if she is in range ((((20% is almost un-noticable ))))
- Exhaust is not a unique weakness to Vayne at all, and it's also on a very very long cooldown
- Focusing is a weakness to everyone in the game but Galio and Rammus, I didn't know Vayne's passive said "takes more damage if focused" like that's why she's overpowered, she's stupidly hard to focus even if no one is peeling for her
are you daft?
Has nothing to do with specifically countering Vayne. It's how you counter champions in this game. By using items, tactics and gameplay.
-When the enemy picks vayne, you can decide to get more hard cc than when playing against a ADc like Caitlyn for example
-Pink warding is indeed useful and counters one of her most valuable skill set (stealth-tumble used to re-position)
-Vayne's AA is 500 whilst Frozen Heart aura is 800. How is she out of range if the tank/initiator sticks on her? on top of that, 20 % is "un-noticable" you are just silly beyond believe.
-Exhaust is more effective against Vayne then it is against Ezreal, so when against Ezreal you might opt to pick ignite or use your exhaust for a other champion. with Vayne its highly preferred you use it on her when she's ahead
-Focusing someone has nothing to do with exploiting a weakness. Like earlier said, there are certain champions you rather not focus because they have a skill set that makes it extremely hard and often isn't worth the trouble. For example :you rather focus a Kog maw in teamfights who has no ways of escape than all chase the blue build ezreal around the map
-Every teamfight you have to decide who is the biggest treat for your team and you focus that individual or at least attempt to shut that person down. With a lot of teamfights you'll have a front line diving the enemy back line and visa versa. Most teamfights end up who's frontline survives/kills the enemy backline first. The ways to counter vayne mentioned above make it a lot easier.
I had to check to make sure after your comment but kinda knew it already. yet another low rated player who has very limited understanding of the game spouting nonsense on the forums and acting like a sheep.
Celeste Benal4 votes[{quoted}](name=M4A1 Dushi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=000800020000,timestamp=2015-08-12T13:03:14.874+0000)
I had to check to make sure after your comment but kinda knew it already. yet another low rated player who has very limited understanding of the game spouting nonsense on the forums and acting like a sheep.
Down voted for elo bashing.
PKnowledge1 votesI had to check to make sure after your comment but kinda knew it already. yet another low rated player who has very limited understanding of the game spouting nonsense on the forums and acting like a sheep.
How, look, another diamond player looking down on someone because he's low elo, when he obviously misses the point.
Has nothing to do with specifically countering Vayne. It's how you counter champions in this game. By using items, tactics and gameplay.
That's exactly what he is telling you. There is no clear counter play against Vayne that would not work against any adc. She's not lacking counterplay, she's lacking weaknesses. That's why she's not unbalanced, but she's really strong.
Frozen Heart (BTW it's only 15% slow, not 20%) is not especially good against Vayne, it's just the only item that is efficient against her, with arguably Thorn Mail and pink wards. And even at 2.5 AS, that's only 0.25 sec difference to proc her passive. So yes, that's barely noticeable if she only has Botrk. The armor component give you better protection than the AS slow. Oh, and her range is NOT 500. Vayne has a decent 550 range, and is outranged only by Varus, Ashe and Caitlyn.
Everything else you said is game knowledge or tricks that can be applied to any other adc (CC, exhaust or "hard focus", jungler pressure...), and even then Vayne has a lot of auto-peel to resist those thing.
TCU Dushi1 votesHow, look, another diamond player looking down on someone because he's low elo, when he obviously misses the point.
ooh look, another Diamond player who is bored and annoyed by the shit storm "low rated" players cause with spamming the boards with nonsense threads and QQ posts because they are simply not good enough to handle simple game mechanics/decision making
It's almost impossible to have a quality discussion on the boards nowadays because there's always a group of people who don't understand the game and will complain and QQ about everything with invalid arguments, flawed logic and idea's that are to insane for words.
I don't "look down" on people lower rated than me. But it's beyond frustrating when people who are stuck in the lower divisions come on the boards to share their so called wisdom or facts/truth with people that actually have been playing this game for many years and are more known with how the game actually works instead of the zerg-fest in midlane randomly hitting buttons.
Anyone, rated whatever comes up with a good example or solid train of thought i happily listen to and discuss it. But when i read someone complaining because "ooh no counterplay" i already have enough of it.
Concerning vayne. Any attack speed slow on Vayne is more effective than against any other ADc. As Vayne is the ONLY ADc that has no skillshot/point click dmg (not taking in the minimum damage condemn does)
Every other adc has ways of dealing damage when FH/Exh/Randuins slows their AS and are unable to auto hit as frequently.
Vayne has plenty weaknesses, her kit is mediocre at best before she has any form of attack speed. Her kit forces her to go for extended trades rather than "Caitlyn Q to lose 25 % of your life" The only way for her to get a kill/assist is to be at 550 units range (thanks for correcting me)
Later in the game her mobility/ways of re positioning is easily dealt with with a simple pink ward/oracle lens and once again, when you have to get up close to deal damage and it has to be done by auto hits the entire gameplay changes. She can't just sit back in a teamfight launching skillshots in the direction of the teamfight or chuck in a long range global ultimate
Vayne is perfectly fine, hardly any changes have been made to her and she doesn't see much professional play anyways.
You do realize that when all the bronze/silver/gold QQ kids on the forums get their way the game would be even more dumbed down. Half of the champions are already a joke as it is because RIOT constantly gets forced to change things the angry hoard of low rated players doesn't like or simply doesn't understand.
Nerf Rengar, Nerf Vayne, Nerf Riven, Nerf this, Nerf that, Nerf everything because to shit to handle mechanics.
If you want to complain about something. Complain about unbalanced items or shit reworks.
PKnowledge2 votesooh look, another Diamond player who is bored and annoyed by the shit storm "low rated" players cause with spamming the boards with nonsense threads and QQ posts because they are simply not good enough to handle simple game mechanics/decision making
It's almost impossible to have a quality discussion on the boards nowadays because there's always a group of people who don't understand the game and will complain and QQ about everything with invalid arguments, flawed logic and idea's that are to insane for words.
I don't "look down" on people lower rated than me. But it's beyond frustrating when people who are stuck in the lower divisions come on the boards to share their so called wisdom or facts/truth with people that actually have been playing this game for many years and are more known with how the game actually works instead of the zerg-fest in midlane randomly hitting buttons.
Yes, sure, it's hard to have a discussion on the boards. But how will that improve if you bash people when they actually try to discuss ? Let's be honest here, you answered to someone that made a structured post with some valid points. You're the one who broke the discussion here, by adding some irrelevant elo-bashing and "you must be stupid if you think that". If everyone is going to be an ass just because idiots are everywhere on these boards, things will only get worse.
Any attack speed slow on Vayne is more effective than against any other ADc. As Vayne is the ONLY ADc that has no skillshot/point click dmg (not taking in the minimum damage condemn does)
Every other adc has ways of dealing damage when FH/Exh/Randuins slows their AS and are unable to auto hit as frequently.
Sure, Vayne is hurt by AS slow, but she will ignore a good part of the armor. Other adc won't be hurt by the AS slow, but the armor part will hinder them more. Randuins (or FH if you need the mana) will be useful against most adc, not for the slow, but for the armor/health. Anyway, that slow is really weak. 3 attacks would take 1.45sec instead of 1.2sec if you have 2.5 AS...
Vayne has plenty weaknesses, her kit is mediocre at best before she has any form of attack speed. Her kit forces her to go for extended trades rather than "Caitlyn Q to lose 25 % of your life" The only way for her to get a kill/assist is to be at 550 units range (thanks for correcting me)
You're telling me she has plenty weaknesses, but you only gave me one : she can't poke.
Sure, she's having a hard time in early against lane bullies. She will lose some CS until she get the cutlass. Then unless you're playing Cait, she'll sustain most of your poke and stop losing CS. Then she get botrk and you can't prevent her from farming any more.
Sure, she's behind, you probably took tower, and maybe you killed her once. But now you can't duel her any more and unless you finish in the next 10 min, she'll be unstoppable.
Later in the game her mobility/ways of re positioning is easily dealt with with a simple pink ward/oracle lens and once again, when you have to get up close to deal damage and it has to be done by auto hits the entire gameplay changes.
Well, her ways of repositioning is better than a lot of other adc, even if you have a pink ward close by.
She can't just sit back in a teamfight launching skillshots in the direction of the teamfight or chuck in a long range global ultimate
There is not a lot of ADC that can do enough damage at 600+ range. Furthermore, when a classic adc will struggle to kill the frontlane because that's the only thing in AA range, Vayne will just delete them and get to the next one. Same thing if you manage to get past her frontlane due to her strong 1V1. I honestly don't think she has any clear weakness late game, unless you get her in the middle of your team and CC her to death. I would be fine with it if she didn't reach her late game that early.
Vayne is perfectly fine, hardly any changes have been made to her and she doesn't see much professional play anyways.
She's still really popular, and the most played ADC in high elo.
You do realize that when all the bronze/silver/gold QQ kids on the forums get their way the game would be even more dumbed down. Half of the champions are already a joke as it is because RIOT constantly gets forced to change things the angry hoard of low rated players doesn't like or simply doesn't understand. Nerf Rengar, Nerf Vayne, Nerf Riven, Nerf this, Nerf that, Nerf everything because to shit to handle mechanics.
When the same champion come again and again on the board, you can't say it's only low-elo players that QQ. Take Leblanc : She was totally obnoxious to play against, and seen everywhere, and there was a lot of QQ about her. And that was definitely not only bronzies that though that. Same thing for Riven. Every elo complain about her, and not only bronzies.
Don't get me wrong, I will gladly agree with you about the lack of game knowledge, tactics or just brain usage by some players in low-elo, and sometime even higher. That's actually what I hate the most, seeing this game slowly becoming a reflex-base 1v1 no brain game. But I also hate it when the game turn into "focus that b!tch and win asap".
Orbv3 votes{quoted} Oh, and her range is NOT 500. Vayne has a decent 550 range, and is outranged only by Varus, Ashe and Caitlyn.
ADC that outrange her with abilities --> Kog'Maw, Twitch, Tristana, Jinx ADC that have the same range --> Corki, Ezreal, Miss Fortune
Realistically, the champions that outrange her with spells...still outrange her, and can have a bigger impact in more compositions. You cannot use Vayne in or against a Poke comp. You can't pick her against an Assassin comp. You can't use her in a Siege Comp.
Then the ones who do have the same range are bursty and have a lot of damage on spells. She's good in scenarios where she is isolated. Jinx is FAR scarier. She gets a kill and she'll run across the map.
Minrog1 votesI don't think you are watching the LPL. Just in the last couple of days I have seen Mystic and Uzi play VaJanna lane combos and take wins (off UP and Masters 3). Mystic plays Vayne a lot and Uzi hasn't been playing too much but it's one of his goto as well. Vayne gets a lot of play in the LPL even on other teams it's just the two ones I have watched this week.
TCU Dushi1 votesI don't think you are watching the LPL. Just in the last couple of days I have seen Mystic and Uzi play VaJanna lane combos and take wins (off UP and Masters 3). Mystic plays Vayne a lot and Uzi hasn't been playing too much but it's one of his goto as well. Vayne gets a lot of play in the LPL even on other teams it's just the two ones I have watched this week.
If vayne is as strong and dominant as people in this thread make out her pick/ban rate in the pro-scene should be A LOT higher than it currently is.
same with the riven QQ threads.
General Murica1 votes[{quoted}](name=M4A1 Dushi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h0geyOBP,comment-id=000800040000,timestamp=2015-08-14T02:02:12.809+0000)
same with the riven QQ threads.
Eh no, riven is a case of ''no gold to the toplane'' lcs meta
https://youtu.be/263s1SRgwa4?t=167 But when they do
Minrog1 votesI don't know about her solo Q strengths as I mostly just watch pro games. Because of the lane swaps they do she gains in power vs some of the other picks.
Right now it's 
as bans a lot of the time, then 
that are usually picked up for each team. I saw an 
in one of the LCK games the other day, and I still see 
but it almost always goes wrong.
Some players have their own pocket picks, like Deft and Imp are still playing 
and going HAM, and I got a real treat a couple weeks back when Krystal from Snake played 
. I see a couple of Juggermaws now and again, Snake does it sometimes and Jin'Air, but it seems to have fallen way off.
General Murica1 votesI don't think you are watching the LPL. Just in the last couple of days I have seen Mystic and Uzi play VaJanna lane combos and take wins (off UP and Masters 3). Mystic plays Vayne a lot and Uzi hasn't been playing too much but it's one of his goto as well. Vayne gets a lot of play in the LPL even on other teams it's just the two ones I have watched this week.
Ya realie naut/janna+vayne are her best lanes by far?
