Its almost laughable that Vayne still has no nerfs pending

M Schumacher·Sep 14, 2015·94 votes·4,854 views

After reaching what may be the highest pick rate of any champion, ever, and still maintaining a win-rate of 52%. I'm not sure why people claim she is difficult to play. If she was that hard to play she wouldn't have a win rate that high for being picked in 37% of all games.

Why Vayne is broken:

-One of the safest laning phases in the game. She can easily dodge abilties with her tumble (which has a 6 second cooldown, far lower than any forms of CC present in bot lane).

-Is not required to build AD (thanks to Silver bolts and high attack speed per level, not to mention she rushes Botrk). Champions like Tristana are relatively weak until they complete both and often not effective until is also completed.

-Is not required to build 3rd item like almost EVERY ADC is.

-Can 1v1 nearly every champion in the game after completing

-Is not required to rank up her Condemn to increase the stun duration, it is a flat 1.5 seconds at all ranks. It's also buggy as shit and often stuns when the target doesn't even collide with terrain.

It's not a matter of other ADCs "being weak". Champions like are all still very strong and more than capable of carrying games.

100 Comments

Cunny BaronSep 15, 201512 votes

8%of max hp TRUE damage was always and will always be broken. Clairvoyance

disregardableSep 14, 201510 votes

If she's so broken, why do you have a 33% win rate with her?

Also if she's so prevalent, why don't you play Rengar and shit all over her face?

M SchumacherSep 14, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-14T23:22:50.347+0000)

If she's so broken, why do you have a 33% win rate with her?

Also if she's so prevalent, why don't you play Rengar and shit all over her face?

Every time I play Vayne literally top and mid are 0/16 combined and our jungler has no idea whats going on.

http://i.imgur.com/Hvmq5uA.png

disregardableSep 14, 201515 votes

So, when the Vayne is on the enemy team, their top and mid lane NEVER suck, but for you it's definitely your team. #elohell amirite?

StreetonSep 14, 201527 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-14T23:26:00.840+0000)

So, when the Vayne is on the enemy team, their top and mid lane NEVER suck, but for you it's definitely your team. #elohell amirite?

admit it bro vayne needs nerfs its obv

Popstar AhriSep 15, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-14T23:22:50.347+0000)

If she's so broken, why do you have a 33% win rate with her?

Also if she's so prevalent, why don't you play Rengar and shit all over her face?

your silver 5 and your still stuck there with 359 games played?

Sniper 0Sep 15, 20152 votes

Ehh I find vayne really hard to position with and she just doesn't fit my playstyle. Contrary to popular belief she is not an easy champ. =.=

SlaktarTaskenSep 15, 20152 votes

Why would she be any harder to position with than say: Lucian, who has lower range and not even half the mobility?

Sightless66Sep 15, 20151 votes

Well, if Lucian is being threatened, he can back off and ult for damage while staying out of threat range. Vayne doesn't have that option, and that does make positioning a good deal harder for her. She always has to be in someone's threat range because she can't do anything from outside of it. I would argue that she's getting a bit too much reward for being successful with her positioning right now, and that is making her a bit too strong, but it is harder for her to position ideally than it is for most other AD carries.

SlaktarTaskenSep 15, 20151 votes

I don't agree, her 2 seconds maxed tumble on the contrary is perhaps the best repositioning tool in the game, most adc's would probably give their left nuts to have an ability like that, it allows her to reposition effectively even if she's affliced by slows/exhaust. Adc's generally have to wait after using a repositioning tools, Vayne can more or less spamm hers at will while weaving in autos.

Sightless66Sep 15, 20151 votes

On the other hand, Tumble has a much shorter range and if she uses it to get out of range then she can't actually do anything. I can jump away as Corki and then start spamming rockets, or get away as Lucian and then ult. Vayne can reposition in an enemy's threat range easier than most other carries, but she also has to reposition within their threat range or get nothing done. Again, she's overtuned a bit right now, but I do think this part of her is pretty fair.

SlaktarTaskenSep 16, 20151 votes

300 vs 425 2 second cs at max rank vs 14 seconds cd at max rank

Even if she doesn't attack anything with it she'll still be able to recast it again 8 seconds after it has been cast with 0 cooldown, if she does attack anything she can just spam it to stay at range indefinately, hence why she's considered infuriatingly slippery and borderline impossible to pin down.

Also, why would Vayne who has the strongest dueling power bother getting entirely out of range, given her supreme orbwalking ability all she needs to do is stay at max effective AA range to effectively melt whomever she is facing be it tank or squishy.

Yeah sure, Corki has his long ranged jump, but his rockets do pathetically low damage on their own and are very easy to juke at range, and if you do catch up with him despite his jump, you can be sure you're gonna wreck him. Lucians ult can literally be walked out of with ease or simply tanked as it's dps is far lower than simply just cycling his normal abilites and passive.

Lucian suffers the same dilemma and his range is even shorter, sure, he can dash away from threat range and ult, but just how much will he get done then when the tank literally soaks his ult with ease? Vayne on the other hand just needs to make sure she's on the perimiter and she will automatically melt that tank with ease, tank get's to close or anyone else for that matter, condemn, fuck you for trying to catch the Vayne.

"She's overtuned a bit right now, but I do think this part of her is pretty fair."

Just lol, so you're admitting she's overtuned and somehow that is ok? Justify.

Sightless66Sep 16, 20153 votes

Just lol, so you're admitting she's overtuned and somehow that is ok? Justify.

Dude, that's not what I'm saying and you know it. You know I'm not trying to say that her being OP is acceptable, so why frame it that way? Don't do that shit. The entire point of me saying that she is overtuned is acknowledging that she is too strong. There is nothing there that says that I think her current state is acceptable.

I'm saying this part of her kit is justifiable. It is fair for an AD carry with absolutely no way of extending their range to be very slipperty. Now, she is overtuned in other areas, and that makes her too strong, and that has to be fixed. Her true damage could go down, or her base stats could be lowered, or a cooldown could be increased, or any number of things could happen. There are lots of ways to balance her, and of course one should be picked. I frankly find it a bit silly that I have to make it clear that I think her being OP is something that has to be fixed, but I'm doing it just to make it absolutely clear to you. Is it clear enough now, or do I have to go on a rant about hating Vayne in order to make it obvious that I'm not happy with her current state?

Seriously man, what was the goddamn point of that statement? Did you really think I meant that Vayne being OP was ok? Even if I thought that, why would I just say it like that? Come on man, you're just going into this assuming that I'm an idiot. I'm actually pissed off at this right now, and I didn't come into this conversation expecting that. Seriously man, that was just a dick move.

I'm not following up on this with you anymore, so take these responses for whatever you want. Reply or don't, I don't care, I'm done.

why would Vayne who has the strongest dueling power bother getting entirely out of range,

Because in a teamfight there are multiple enemies who are going to want to kill the AD carry. Dueling isn't the only thing in this game. AD carries do get zoned completely out of fights, and that is something that can and will happen to Vayne.

Yeah sure, Corki has his long ranged jump, but his rockets do pathetically low damage on their own and are very easy to juke at range, and if you do catch up with him despite his jump, you can be sure you're gonna wreck him.

The rockets are a decent amount of damage that can be reliably applied to enemies who are chasing you. It's more than 0, which is what short range carries often end up doing if they need to run from enemies. Also, catching to a Corki after a jump is way harder than catching up to a Vayne. The distance difference is not something to be dismissed that easily. This is a fair tradeoff in terms of kit design.

So, yeah, I'm maintaining that Vayne having this kind of mobility that only works if she stays in an enemy's threat range is fair given her kit limitations. It's backed up with numbers on the rest of the kit that are too high, but the core concept is fundamentally sound.

Oh, and yeah, Vayne's better than Lucian. Big freaking deal. Everyone is. He sucks, and has sucked for a while. He sucks even compared to balanced carries. That's Lucian's problem.

SlaktarTaskenSep 16, 20151 votes

Good arguments, and sorry for the dick move. It wasn't actually intended to be as such and I'm sorry that it came out that way. It's just that this champ fills me with so much frustration, alas perhaps I let it get to me and I missed the point entirely, but please know it wasn't my intention and thus I apolegize for that.

You are correct in all that you have written here, so no objections from me. +1

Kuroi86Sep 15, 20151 votes

She lacks the poke of other ADC. This has always been the Achilles heel for Vayne. When poke heavy ADC are strong, Vayne suffers greatly. Currently, they aren't strong, so Vayne is in a prime spot and likely will stay there until the ADC item pass occurs.

GastonBarnaclesSep 15, 20152 votes

Vayne is the hardest adc to kill with rengar. She can invis, tumble, knockback.

disregardableSep 15, 20151 votes

That's assuming she doesn't die as soon as you jump on her, like every AD in the game will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWFAMcRbcoY

KONO RUBICK DASep 15, 201513 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=000000040000,timestamp=2015-09-15T13:51:58.265+0000)

That's assuming she doesn't die as soon as you jump on her, like every AD in the game will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWFAMcRbcoY

woa, lvl 13 vayne with 1/2 hp against lvl 17 full hp rengar, and she died therefore she is balanced

rofl

DessemSep 15, 20154 votes

Perhaps you should consider attacking the argument rather than the one making it. Ad hominem is never a compelling way to convince people they're wrong.

disregardableSep 15, 20151 votes

This is a rare situation where it's not actually an attack. Claiming that a champion is objectively better than the other ones means that everyone should be able to succeed with him a majority of the time. Everyone that says Vayne needs nerfs doesn't actually play Vayne. If they did, they'd realize "Hey, I don't have a 60% win rate! She's not actually op!".

KONO RUBICK DASep 15, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=000000050000,timestamp=2015-09-15T15:09:44.096+0000)

This is a rare situation where it's not actually an attack. Claiming that a champion is objectively better than the other ones means that everyone should be able to succeed with him a majority of the time. Everyone that says Vayne needs nerfs doesn't actually play Vayne. If they did, they'd realize "Hey, I don't have a 60% win rate! She's not actually op!".

if darius is broken why aren't you playing him? if skarner is broken if morde is broken, if fiora is broken why aren't you playing them? now shut the fuck up. We can't play every champion at the same time and frankly we don't want to play champions that we don't like remember what is the purpose of the game?

Now "they will realize that she isn't op" How do you know it? because she is skilled? according to champion.gg vayne players with 1-4 games have 49.5% win rate so i think that with 8-9 game everyone will master her if they rush BRK.

disregardableSep 15, 20152 votes

Or maybe you shouldn't comment on the balance of champions with healthy winrates that you've never played. ;) The only reason I keep commenting on these threads is to try to explain how poor the logic of "nerf Vayne/ADCs" is and maybe someone will actually listen. It's not like I need to defend Vayne from nerfs, Riot already agrees that she's fine.

Sightless66Sep 15, 20155 votes

It's not like I need to defend Vayne from nerfs, Riot already agrees that she's fine.

No they don't. They've posted about her a few times in the last couple patches, and they have tried very, very hard to avoid saying saying that they think she's fine. None of their posts have implied that they're happy with her current state compared to that of other AD carries. They've said they might nerf her, but that it will be a part of the larger ADC changes coming in the preseason. All they've said is that they won't nerf her in 5.18. After that, they haven't said jack about not nerfing her.

disregardableSep 15, 20152 votes

They've consistently said that she is the same that she has always been, that other ADCs have been nerfed, and that the meta is favorable to her.

If they actually believed she needed nerfs, here's a hint, they'd nerf her. "It's possible that we might nerf her someday but we have no plans to" sounds a lot more like "We're just placating you, she's fine. "

At least to me. Your mileage may vary.

Sightless66Sep 15, 20154 votes

They've said that they think Vayne is doing too well, but they're not touching any AD carries until the preseason changes. They haven't said that they think Vayne is doing this well just because the meta favors her. Repetoir and Meddler have actually both distanced themselves from that position.

What they have said is that there is a possibility that Vayne will avoid serious nerfs if the ADC item rework helps other carries enough, and that they don't want to majorly nerf her (or anyone else) until the preseason changes are all finalized, but that is not even close to saying that they think she's in an OK spot and won't get nerfed.

If they actually believed she needed nerfs, here's a hint, they'd nerf her.

Yeah, because they've neeeeeever put off balance changes for a champion because they're concerned that major systems changes would affect them. Nope, Riot has never done that before. It would be completely unprecedented.

Oh wait, they did that just earlier this season when they put off nerfing Nidalee because they were buffing tank items and there was a small chance that would make her weak enough. Or when they put off nerfing Sejuani even though it was clear she'd be absolutely stupidly OP with the new tank items.

I know what I just did was patronizing, but I do think it makes my point clear. Riot has done this before. Putting off balance changes because they're nervous about how future systems changes would affect things is a major part of their MO. They've said she might get nerfed once the ADC changes are finalized. That's pretty clear from where I stand.

Kuroi86Sep 15, 20151 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/4RVeheMb-the-fact-that-vayne-isnt-even-being-considered-for-nerfs-when-her-stats-are-so-absurd-is-sad-really

Where did we say this? Just talking around the office, that's really not the impression I get. If you had said, "The fact that Vayne isn't getting nerfed in 5.16 is sad really," then that's more reasonable. I can assure that in the last few days I've had several conversations about Vayne that weren't just on the boards.

Is she getting changes in 5.16? No. However, that doesn't necessarily mean we aren't aware of the community sentiment on the subject.

disregardableSep 15, 20152 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/e8tTzj2W-speculation-518-is-the-last-chance-for-balancing-for-worlds-whos-on-the-hitlist?comment=000a00240001

TLDR: It's possible Vayne's too strong, so we're looking at her. 'Everyone says' doesn't necessarily equal true though.

There are a lot of anti Vayne threads on Boards, with you there. That indicates that, at the very least, a lot of players are finding Vayne really frustrating. Frustrating doesn't necessarily mean overpowered however, though the two are correlated. Champions sometimes generate a lot of frustration feedback even when balanced or underpowered (e.g. Blitzcrank really annoys some people regardless of his balance state and waves of anti Blitz threads crop up every so often). It's also important to remember that the population of Boards isn't necessarily representative of the entire player base (it's a subset of the english speaking population from certain servers).

Having said that though it's very possible Vayne's too strong at the moment. Her win rate in solo queue is quite high for such a popular champion. That, particularly when combined with the frustration she's causing, means she's worth investigating. Doesn't necessarily mean nerfing Vanye's the appropriate outcome though. It's possible we might find that Vayne's too dominant at present because the champions that should be keeping her in check in lane are weak and need to be buffed. Or because items she scales especially well with are overpowered. Or because other meta conditions (lots of HP stacking champs for example) are very favourable to her. Or even some combination of all those factors and too strong a kit, hence the need for some investigation.

Meddler, 2 weeks ago. Bold mine.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 15, 20159 votes

You gotta love how Meddler keeps dodging Vayne/Thresh nerf threads everywhere, whilst he can only reply to those asking if reworks were still going in.

Yosuke ApperuSep 15, 20152 votes

I don't get the hate on thresh, vayne on the other hand, you can't dodge auto attacks unless your name is jax or teemo.. does teemo blind work on silver bolts?

alfavhunterSep 15, 20157 votes

I can tell you for certain vayne is op

How they should nerf her is simple

Remove silver bolts base damage and increase its %hp by 1% at all ranks

What does this do?

Nerfs her early damage while keeping her late game at about the same spot, being MORE effective VS tanks late game, while having minimal effect vs squishes due to her items giving her the damage to kill them late game

Next nerf her base attack speed by .2 but buff the growth stat so she ends up even with live version at lvl 18

This nerfs vaynes early game specifically

Early game vayne should have much worse kill potential than any other ADC

Why?

Her kit makes her safe as all hell in lane, she has %total hp true damage which makes her a beast late game no matter what the enemy team has (even a 1000 armor malfite dies to her very quickly because her damage cannot be stopped by armor, magic resist, or HP stacking) and lastly she has hard CC in her kit, conditional yes, but it is there, very few ADC have any hard CC in their kit

She is a late game adc/assassin that has far to strong of an early game by damage+safety, nerfing her safety would ruin her, so I've suggested things that will nerf her early damage but return it at later levels

Sniper 0Sep 15, 20156 votes

Vayne is not broken. The meta shift has just turned her into a very viable pick. Being tanks and then juggernauts. She can be zoned out of teamfights altogether. She's very vulnerable to poke in lane. Cait and varus punish her so hard when she comes up to get any farm. If the teamcomp doesn't support her she falls flat on her face. The issue at lower elos is that no one actually knows how to properly deal with her. Generally if you get rolled by her your team comp probably lacks any real hard engage or poke.

M SchumacherSep 15, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Holy Arts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-15T01:12:43.585+0000)

Vayne is not broken. The meta shift has just turned her into a very viable pick. Being tanks and then juggernauts. She can be zoned out of teamfights altogether. She's very vulnerable to poke in lane. Cait and varus punish her so hard when she comes up to get any farm. If the teamcomp doesn't support her she falls flat on her face. The issue at lower elos is that no one actually knows how to properly deal with her. Generally if you get rolled by her your team comp probably lacks any real hard engage or poke.

Vayne certainly is broken

http://i.imgur.com/sHILwTr.png

Sniper 0Sep 15, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-09-15T01:14:07.009+0000)

Vayne certainly is broken

http://i.imgur.com/sHILwTr.png

Bro you're gold 5 and I'm a win away from my s2 promos... lol You have no right to pull rank on me. XD

Popstar AhriSep 15, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Holy Arts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-09-15T01:15:08.466+0000)

Bro you're gold 5 and I'm a win away from my s2 promos... lol You have no right to pull rank on me. XD

which it took u over 500 games

Sniper 0Sep 15, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Popstar Ahri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-15T01:17:45.001+0000)

which it took u over 500 games

Ok? Point? Ranked has nothing to do with an individuals ability to theorize or understand the game. Just means I have a lot of experience and honestly I wasn't really learning one champ at a time. I was just playing what was "good" and things that "countered" other champs and I got shit on for it. lol It wasn't till recently that I started focusing on a smaller pool of champs that could be used effectively to help win games. ;) So yeah....

Sir YamazukiSep 15, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Holy Arts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-15T01:29:17.161+0000)

Ok? Point? Ranked has nothing to do with an individuals ability to theorize or understand the game. Just means I have a lot of experience and honestly I wasn't really learning one champ at a time. I was just playing what was "good" and things that "countered" other champs and I got shit on for it. lol It wasn't till recently that I started focusing on a smaller pool of champs that could be used effectively to help win games. ;) So yeah....

Actually, rank does matter, especially if it's someone from the bottom end. The game is generally played differently between bottom, middle, and the top. Even champions have different effectiveness in different ranks. Ashe for an example was seen as trash originally because majority of the player base couldn't abuse her strengths while anyone in plat/diamond was abusing her for freelo. She had a 48~49% win rate in Bronze/Silver while maintaining a 55% win rate in Plat/Diamond. When Ashe was changed she had changes specifically meant to nerf players who abused her while making her overall easier to play, so she started winning more often in lower ranks while losing more often in higher ranks.

Also, regarding Vayne, you are wrong about "The issue at lower elos is that no one actually knows how to properly deal with her." In bronze her win rate is 49~~50% while in Plat/Diamond it is 52%. SO, she's once again like many fotm champions more effective and harder to deal with the higher your rank is. Even just going from Bronze to Silver it goes from 49~~50 to 50~51.

You're also wrong about just picking Cait or Varus. Out of the 2 only Varus has a chance of winning on average. The most effective current picks on average are Morde then Ashe.

Sniper 0Sep 15, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-15T02:26:07.348+0000)

Actually, rank does matter, especially if it's someone from the bottom end. The game is generally played differently between bottom, middle, and the top. Even champions have different effectiveness in different ranks. Ashe for an example was seen as trash originally because majority of the player base couldn't abuse her strengths while anyone in plat/diamond was abusing her for freelo. She had a 48~49% win rate in Bronze/Silver while maintaining a 55% win rate in Plat/Diamond. When Ashe was changed she had changes specifically meant to nerf players who abused her while making her overall easier to play, so she started winning more often in lower ranks while losing more often in higher ranks.

Also, regarding Vayne, you are wrong about "The issue at lower elos is that no one actually knows how to properly deal with her." In bronze her win rate is 49~~50% while in Plat/Diamond it is 52%. SO, she's once again like many fotm champions more effective and harder to deal with the higher your rank is. Even just going from Bronze to Silver it goes from 49~~50 to 50~51.

You're also wrong about just picking Cait or Varus. Out of the 2 only Varus has a chance of winning on average. The most effective current picks on average are Morde then Ashe.

Rank does not affect your ability to theorize... Unless you don't have a proper understanding of the game. Ohh no a 52% winrate. Pretty sure a lot of high elo players say that you can't base a champs power on their winrate... lol The boards just need a champion they can put on the chopping block. When it's not Vayne, it's gonna be someone else.

Need Gold 4 TentSep 15, 20151 votes

It's odd, I haven't heard Riven QQ for a while, did they do something to her?

only larvitarSep 15, 20151 votes

people are simply playing garen/darius/fiora/skarner/mord. so you're seeing less riven thus less riven whining.

Also, RIVENS BROKEN BAN THAT BITCH EVERY GAME. summoner 11

TheStevenWuSep 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Holy Arts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-15T02:44:04.356+0000)

Rank does not affect your ability to theorize... Unless you don't have a proper understanding of the game. Ohh no a 52% winrate. Pretty sure a lot of high elo players say that you can't base a champs power on their winrate... lol The boards just need a champion they can put on the chopping block. When it's not Vayne, it's gonna be someone else.

A player with lower rank can potentially theorize the game at a professional level; however this is very unlikely. For most people in lower ELO, they are there because their game knowledge is simply limited to that level. It is actually not mechanics. Most lower elo players have a "main champion" that they play; in other words, there's a good chance they know very well how their champion works. They can combo abilities as well as a diamond players (at times).

However, why are bronze players bronze? Here's a few examples (from my observation):

They don't understand the strength of minion waves.
They don't understand the importance of objectives (I rather live than die for my team/tower/dragon/baron).
They don't see opportunities of engagement
They have weak map awareness or tunnels during fights/farm and are constantly out of position.
They don't understand that you should not 1v1 someone that is 2 levels higher than you.
They don't understand that you should not 1v1 someone who has more items than you.
etc. etc etc.

None of these reasons have anything to do with game mechanics; it has much to do with game knowledge. It is safe to assume that if you are of lower elo, you probably don't understand everything you're talking about. The last real change to Vayne was in season 4, a base attack speed boost. Changes before that were in season 3, mostly bug/response fixes Overall, Vayne has not been touched much since release, and now she's suddenly OP?

Is she OP because she's broken, or is she OP because of a meta change with kitable tanks becoming more popular? If she's strong because of the new tank meta, why don't you go back to picking assassins?

LemurKickSep 15, 20151 votes

And right there you lost all credibility in my eyes.

AnidanSep 15, 20151 votes

I'd believe that Vayne is very strong. But I certainly won't be looking to you to argue anyone about balance when you pull a Ranked card on people in an argument un-ironically. Good going.

I try not to attack people instead of their arguments, but you didn't present an argument in this post: you presented yourself as evidence, which is inadmissible.

Cosmic WarperSep 15, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Holy Arts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1fx1XpQv,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-15T01:12:43.585+0000)

Vayne is not broken. The meta shift has just turned her into a very viable pick. Being tanks and then juggernauts. She can be zoned out of teamfights altogether. She's very vulnerable to poke in lane. Cait and varus punish her so hard when she comes up to get any farm. If the teamcomp doesn't support her she falls flat on her face. The issue at lower elos is that no one actually knows how to properly deal with her. Generally if you get rolled by her your team comp probably lacks any real hard engage or poke.

I love how you got downvoted for being right. The anti-vayne circlejerk strikes again. What is this, the 2000th thread about vayne and how she's broken?

She's not directly strong because of her kit, it's because her lane counters have been nerfed over the past season while she remained the same. At that point her early game in tandem receives an indirect buff. I don't understand how people on this forum don't know this.

Dextix LTSep 15, 20152 votes

And all of this results in vayne gaining strenght which is too much. People dont have any problems with her being a tank buster. But she is good at everything except for waveclear.

ninjaIRL Sep 15, 20156 votes

Well. Lee Sin got buffed for worlds. Vayne shone through the rest of the nerfed ADCs. Ahri's damage and mobility aren't being looked at so I guess her as well. I think these are all for worlds. They're mobile, flashy and aren't innately one shotting champions. I'm sure Riot would have been happy to buff Yasuo if so many people weren't so opposed against him.

JasiwelSep 15, 20152 votes

They also have huge fanbases that complain and go wild the moment changes arrive. Lee Sin fans revolted and Ahri fans basically spam the boards until she sees a compensation buff for a justified nerf. Given how popular she has become, I wouldn't be surprised if Vayne has a large fanbase at this point too.

GengarSep 15, 20153 votes

I wouldn't call her broken but the entire game is favored towards her. She benefits mainly off of attack speed which is fairly cheap compared to damage. Also, her core item includes lifesteal which is more sustain in lane, making this so-called "early game weakness" less prevalent. Amumu

Hexs FortuneSep 15, 20153 votes

Rito says they care, yet they leave vayne unnerfed

ARequestOfDeathSep 15, 20152 votes

because it is her team that is op

LuggSep 15, 20152 votes

What's laughable is that they haven't reverted Graves last Q nerf. If they did that, it would be much riskier to take Vayne, Jinx, Kalista, and Tristana. That one fix would help balance the game so much right now.