If assassins kill ADCs, and supports avoid that to happen...

Snowman Arc·Apr 24, 2018·23 votes·10,478 views

then, there should be a way to have something like a class that helps assassin avoid the support trying to avoid the assassin trying to kill the ADC.

Joke / meme aside, if assassins are getting so hard cockblocked by all the supports out there, how about we try to pair an assassin with a support to help them out? For example, how about a Morgana - Zed bot lane, vs let's say Twitch Alistar? If Zed wants to go all-in, Morgana can black shield him, making Alistar useless, and then Zed is free to all-in.

59 Comments

JackMcSnipeyzApr 24, 201824 votes

That's called ENGAGE TANKS. The amount of assassins expecting to 1v2 because "thats my job" is amazing. Assassins are an opportunistic class, they should not initiate, they should wait for the right time to get in. They have some most reliable gap closers/target reaching abilities, their weakness is their timing. A single malphite ult on the supp/adc gives most assassins who arent in the gutter, enough time to burst the adc unless they are behind.

RalanrApr 24, 201811 votes

The problem is that people don’t think this in soloQ.

Assassins get picked up in soloQ because they feel the least team reliant, and honestly any time an assassin in particular is meta that’s usually the case. They pick off single targets quickly and early on (when strong I mean) can get bot lane double kills. This leads to imo, an inflated ego about what an assassin can or cannot do.

ZJD123Apr 24, 20187 votes

{quoted}

That's called ENGAGE TANKS. The amount of assassins expecting to 1v2 because "thats my job" is amazing. Assassins are an opportunistic class, they should not initiate, they should wait for the right time to get in. They have some most reliable gap closers/target reaching abilities, their weakness is their timing. A single malphite ult on the supp/adc gives most assassins who arent in the gutter, enough time to burst the adc unless they are behind.

ADC + support is balanced, JUST USE MUH ENGAGE TANKS

You're serious?

RalanrApr 24, 201818 votes

What? Having someone whose job is to create openings is wrong?

JayFoeApr 24, 20186 votes

{quoted}

What? Having someone whose job is to create openings is wrong?

If you need a frontline protecting you, why use an assassin over an ADC? The ADC does more damage, kills tanks and bruisers, and scales better.

Assassins don't need to be able to win 1v2s, but they need to have a role in the game that isn't better filled by the ADC.

RalanrApr 24, 201815 votes

See the roll of an assassin is elimination of targets, not taking out structures. Assassins don’t need a frontline to protect them, they need a frontline to cause a distraction.

JayFoeApr 24, 20186 votes

{quoted}

See the roll of an assassin is elimination of targets, not taking out structures. Assassins don’t need a frontline to protect them, they need a frontline to cause a distraction.

ADCs eliminate targets quite easily if they have a distraction. What does the assassin offer that the ADC doesn't?

RalanrApr 24, 201818 votes

See now you’re reaching the problem with ADCs currently.

AptestApr 24, 20181 votes

The assassin offers this: instead of both team's ADCs killing the tanks and having a game of last ADC standing, one of them dies.

flibitydooApr 24, 20187 votes

Exactly what in his logic is wrong though?

If Mundo or Darius or Zac is making a B-line straight to your carry, guess what Alistar has to do? Yeah, he Qs, he Ws, he exhausts. Guess what Alistar doesn't have anymore for the next 10 seconds to use on the Zed who's coming in now? his Q, his W or his exhaust. That's a basic 2 vs 2 scenario, an engage tank/juggernaut+assassin vs support+adc. Not a 1 vs 2 scenario where obviously regardless of champion types the 2 should obviously win.

the notion that "I clicked on this guy in champ select, therefore I should be able to declare one enemy champ not be allowed to play this game regardless of all 5 enemy champions input" is extremely idiotic thinking. If that logic applied, the entire game wouldn't even exist given all people would do is go 1 for 1 regardless of gameplay/skill.

egOrhythmApr 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

ADC + support is balanced, JUST USE MUH ENGAGE TANKS

You're serious?

Hecarim JarvanIV Leona Maokai Malphite

Oh what's that? Ah, a tank J4 annihilating an ADC. Oh? This is in pro play?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

FutureCreatorApr 25, 20181 votes

J4 and to some extent Hecarim's play pattern is absolute cancer. +use giant range dash/super speed to get to ADC

+instantly kill ADC

+don't die because you're tanky

+rinse and repeat

Devilreaper XIIIApr 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

That's called ENGAGE TANKS. The amount of assassins expecting to 1v2 because "thats my job" is amazing. Assassins are an opportunistic class, they should not initiate, they should wait for the right time to get in. They have some most reliable gap closers/target reaching abilities, their weakness is their timing. A single malphite ult on the supp/adc gives most assassins who arent in the gutter, enough time to burst the adc unless they are behind.

assassin mains have a god complex.

AMYS GRAVEApr 24, 20187 votes

If assassins kill ADCs, and supports avoid that to happen...

Then assassins shouldn't be trying to 1v2?

egOrhythmApr 24, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Then assassins shouldn't be trying to 1v2?

What's this? LOGIC? IN MY ASSASSIN CIRCLEJERK?

Get out >:(

ThefrostyvikingApr 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Then assassins shouldn't be trying to 1v2?

For your clarity.

No.

Under very few rare circumstance should the assassin ever try to 1v2, the far more reasonable and usually much better working option is to wait for someone like your tank to rush and and force enemy abilties, then you drop in to flank.

Or better yet if you are lucky, get lucky and happen to be around for that delicious botlane to start fighting your own botlane, then they will only survive 1 outa 10 times and usually because their jungle bailed them out.

AMYS GRAVEApr 25, 20181 votes

This just in, the class that excels at killing isolated targets is bad at teamfighting and should try to force small skirmishes.

ThefrostyvikingApr 25, 20181 votes

Oh what news O_O

This piece of information will surely make an excellent headline, people all over will be shocked and intrigued x)

Best prepare the hospitals and the psychological counselors for the sure to come floods of people collapsing at this most incredible and grand revelation.

LordGeovanniApr 28, 20181 votes

They are not bad at teamfights they just try to do the same thing in team fights that they do in solo lanes and thus it doesn't work so they cry.

Bent PixelsApr 24, 20183 votes

The reason why supports go with adcs is that adcs can very rarely perform well on their own... theyre just so weak that they can hardly do anything by themselves. For example, sometimes I see Vayne top or Ezreal mid, but they don't do very well at all. Sometimes they do but there are some exceptions. Supports help the adc do well in their lane, so if there was a midlane assassin such as Zed, Yasuo, Ekko, Ahri, etc. paired with someone who can constantly shield/give them HP then it would actually be unstoppable

HOWEVER, think about it... if there is a mid/supp duo at bot lane for both teams, that easily allows at least one adc (which would then be at the mid lane) to get super fed and snowball from there, unless they both play super safe for some reason. To make things worse, if one team does a mid/supp duo at bot but another team doesn't (meaning they have an actual midlaner against your adc at mid) then that makes it super easy for an assassin to get fed at mid and proceed to skull fuck your team. Remember, games are getting shorter, giving adcs less time to scale. An un-scaled adc vs a fed mid lane assassin is basically gg

Zed geniusApr 24, 20183 votes

Zed ad carry does not work, trust me I learnt it the hard way

Handin Out NapsApr 24, 20181 votes

Worked for me. Zed support is pretty good too.

OurLestradeApr 24, 20183 votes

The front line's supposed to do that sort of job

DestructoDaveApr 25, 20183 votes

An assassin role, by default, is always going to struggle vs more coordination. Its why you dont see shit like Spies in competitive TF2, while they can completely dump on random pub games. Assassins punish mistakes and bad coordination. Its just at one point in League's existence, Assassins were able to do more than that, and all people can think about is the days gone past.

We have all been in solo Q games where people dont have the right champs, the right comps, or even the right coordination to punish assassins, and in those games, you have Zeds 10-0, Fizz's 9-0, etc. And then you have another game with a support Lulu doing her job, strong coordination, and its not as easy as someone just clicking R to win like it was in that previous Brand support game where that Ashe had zero peel.

If a team is playing coordinated enough to stop you, you have to be coordinated enough of a team to get around it. Wait on them to use their tools on someone else before you go in. Most of these people whining just wanna yolo dive 1v3, and then they get hit by every single CC/shield known to man, and complain about how imbalanced the game is. How imbalanced would the game be if you were able to yolo dive 1v3 and kill someone regardless of what their team did? It would be FAR worse. If you can't wait on your team to force some CDs out, then who is to blame. I mean even that OP ADC you are complaining about sometimes just has to dance around in the back waiting on the malph ult or whatever CD they want to avoid before they can realistically get into the fight. What makes your role any different.

notice me Sin piApr 24, 20182 votes

I think the issue would arise from assassin playstyle; they are better off roaming solo, as most other supports would not be able to follow. How many supports out there can actually follow a Talon jumping over walls, Zed using W and R shadows, Leblanc using W and R distort? Trying to accommodate the less mobile support could backfire because the assassin wouldn't be using his/her mobility to fullest extent. It does happen in niche situations, but supporting an assassin simply would not work for most occassions.

Even if following is possible, other assassins like Shaco Rengar Khazix would actually be useless if anyone was following and giving away approximate location of the assassin.

remakoroApr 24, 20182 votes

Morgana Morgana item 3102 item 3814 summoner 1

Also not trying to go 1 vs 3 might improve your chancess for assasination. Would u fucking jump into jungler and top laner expecting that you will fuck them up? No? What makes you think it is possible if you are jumping into ADC and his babysitter? Person trying to protect his carry 24/7 and doing almost nothing beside that?

It almost feels like people expect supports to just drop dead or go afk at the start of the game.

HibekiApr 24, 20182 votes

Because zed's just gonna get shit on from the range advantage and be down CS the entire game

Snowman ArcApr 25, 20182 votes

I mean, he doesn't have it as hard in mid vs mages, so I wouldn't bet on it.

HibekiApr 25, 20181 votes

thats because its 1v1. 2v2 woul make it so much worse

Drains For GainsApr 24, 20181 votes

Rengar + Kha’Zix lane anyone?

iPooUnicornsApr 24, 20184 votes

Ivern + Rengar was the lane you meant to say

Drains For GainsApr 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

+ was the lane you meant to say

Good point higher winrate and less troll maybe instead of a jungle we could do a Ivern + Rengar + Khazix without Trundle is it really trolling?

iPooUnicornsApr 24, 20181 votes

Ideally it would be Rengar as the carry, Ivern as support and Kha'Zix jungling.

Drains For GainsApr 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ideally it would be Rengar as the carry, Ivern as support and Kha'Zix jungling.

Nah Kha and Rengo are the supports and Ivern is the ADC.

iPooUnicornsApr 24, 20181 votes

Trundle Trundle Trundle Trundle Trundle

Drains For GainsApr 24, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Sir I’m going to have to report you for trolling.

iPooUnicornsApr 24, 20182 votes

Don't hate the player, hate the club that's smashin' your face!

Drains For GainsApr 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Don't hate the player, hate the club that's smashin' your face!

Lol

TokogawarufApr 24, 20181 votes

Hes not ugly, but you´re about to be

Ok sure but whyApr 24, 20181 votes

Unless Ali goes full AP and cucks Morg's shield with his W before knocking him up

TerozuApr 24, 20181 votes

That doesnt disable the spel shield only the magic damage shield.

Ok sure but whyApr 24, 20181 votes

Maybe try using some common sense to understand what I just said

TerozuApr 25, 20181 votes

If you mean what i think you mean, you're saying destroy the shield by doing enough damage right?

Ok sure but whyApr 25, 20181 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TerozuApr 25, 20181 votes

Ok then you should probably know that the purple shield is called a magic damage shield not a spell shield.

Spell shield refers to the period in which you are immune to cc.

And dealing more damage than the magic damage shield does not disable their immunity to cc.

Alistar dealing enough damage to get rid of the purple shield will not allow him to then cc. You still have to wait until the animation is over for the accompanying spell shield to go away.

If they were the same thing Camille's passive would be broken af mid lane.

Ok sure but whyApr 25, 20181 votes

After breaking her shield with his W

He could then CC her with his Q

Because cc immunity only lasts as long as the shield does

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

TerozuApr 25, 20181 votes

Cc immunity lasts for the duration of the spell.

Her shield does two things.

First it gived you a magic damage shield.

Then it gives you a spell shield.

These two things are independent of one another.

The spell shield will always last a specific length of time.

The magic damage shield will last for the same amount of time or until it is popped.

Popping the magic damage shield does not disable the spell shield. And you will still be immune to cc for the rest of the duration.

Athenes LuluApr 25, 20181 votes

I always do that as enchanters, it's more fun anyways and that it's a useful tactic when your ADC can't just get that powerspike yet.

Shit like Lulu can just click R on your assassin who's jumping in, he might rake a few more kills. But I think that's more of the past now since anyone jumping in will get deleted almost instantly.