Loving that PBE thornmail change!

Shadow Hazard·Jun 28, 2017·6 votes·501 views

Total cost 2900g Builds out of Bramble Vest + Ruby Crystal + Warden's Mail +250 Health +75 Armor Unique Passive - Thorns: Upon being hit by a basic attack, reflects magic damage equal to 10% of your bonus armor plus 25, inflicting Grievous Wounds on the attacker for 1 second. Unique Passive - Cold Steel: When hit by basic attacks, reduce attacker's attack speed by 15% for 1 second.

and the new component item bramble vest Total Cost: 900g. Recipe Cloth ARmor + Cloth Armor + G] +35 Armor. Unique Passive - Thorns: Upon being hit by a basic attack, reflects 25 magic damage, inflicting Grievous Wounds on the attacker for 1 second.

17 Comments

PennsJun 28, 20176 votes

People complaining that GV is too good on an 800 gold item with garbage stats

900 gold item with a lot of armor and a lot of reflection damage gets GV and people like it lel

RexxieeJun 28, 20174 votes

{quoted}

People complaining that GV is too good on an 800 gold item with garbage stats

900 gold item with a lot of armor and a lot of reflection damage gets GV and people like it lel

Welcome to this forum.

This item is awful for the game health btw.

RalanrJun 28, 20171 votes

You as well as I know it's not the same people complaining.

PennsJun 28, 20172 votes

Yeah but still.. Thornmail doesnt even seem that strong honestly, but 35 armor + 25 reflection damage + GV for just 900 gold is insane in lane. If it gets no changes people are probably just gonna sit on it and never upgrade to Thornmail till late game.

Bramble Vest + item 3082 + item 1011 is basically a better Thornmail on PBE for the same gold and unlike other items you dont really get anything for completing Thornmail except for 10% bonus armor scaling.

BakedLotionJun 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

People complaining that GV is too good on an 800 gold item with garbage stats

900 gold item with a lot of armor and a lot of reflection damage gets GV and people like it lel

one is for adc one is for tanks

people hate adcs

800 gold item is too good

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 28, 20171 votes

This item is so stupid... so how do we counter this item... because current item 3075 is countered by lifesteal AND mr.

Btw Riot, thanks you for finish Wukong (will become unplayable top... is already a weak laner).

Shadow HazardJun 29, 20171 votes

I personally didn't agree with nerfing the cost of executioner's.

In the view of a carry I hate that thornmail returns part of your physical AA damage on top of the bonus armor, as much as people would want to complain it is an extremely overtuned/undervalued offensive effect, similar to how zzrot was before it started to be the absolute rush tank item, in my opinion. From the view of the tanky champ I enjoy that it has grievous wounds and is a functional health armor item so it is less gimped by the options of armor pen/shred.

RebonackJun 28, 20175 votes

A giant middle-finger to lifestealers.

I love it.

RalanrJun 28, 20173 votes

New core item for tanks against ADCs. Though I think AS slow and AS damage reflect doesn't mix.

SlashStrikerJun 28, 20173 votes

ridiculous damage reflection =10% of your bonus armor plus 25

Thornmail suppose to be anti crit item that forces you to buy MR but since it does "no damage" you don't need any MR. It inflicts GW but what is the point since it reflects no damage? And because of that lifesteal wins

400 bonus armor: 40 + 25 = 65 magic damage on auto return

ADC lifesteal = 30% 30% of 1000 crit = 300 300 x 60% (100% - 40% GW) = 180 health on hit

note: armor needs extra calculation (tank's armor vs adc's armor pen)

Again we buy item that does damage but it does low amount of damage. So whats the point? I guess we have to combine it with sunfire cape that is a damage item that also got nerfed?

RalanrJun 28, 20171 votes

It's been a shitty anti crit item for a long time.

Jo0oJun 28, 20171 votes

It's not just for a 1v1.

Lifestealing enemy ADC or other carry hits the tank, suddenly their lifesteal is much worse AND they're taking reflective damage. That'll make it much easier for your team to take them out.

SlashStrikerJun 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's not just for a 1v1.

Lifestealing enemy ADC or other carry hits the tank, suddenly their lifesteal is much worse AND they're taking reflective damage. That'll make it much easier for your team to take them out.

of course as we all know we should always focus the tanks instead of squishy champions in teamfights because we can :3

Jo0oJun 28, 20171 votes

Hey, if I'm on top of you zoning you and CCing you, you now no longer have a free source of lifegain. Doubly so if you're a melee-range lifestealer.

This item may not do much if the enemy carry is free to lay into your squishies unimpeded, but that team fight has already gone horribly awry.

chipndip1Jun 28, 20171 votes

If the enemy is reaching your carries and mages, maybe you should stop playing tanks cause you only had one job and you managed to fuck THAT up.

ProfDrDeathJun 28, 20171 votes

Imo, this Thornmail would be great.

If they just axed the Grievous Wounds effect and damage based on bonus Armor and replaced it with a 15-20% damage return (as on Live Thornmail).

Lifesteal = Percentage of damage x ratio of (Thorn user's Armor + 100) to (Thorn attacker's MR + 100)

With current Thornmail in the above formula, a tank with 90 base Armor would need, against an AD with a balanced build (flat MR runes, IE/Zeal upgrade/BT /Mercurial /BG/LDR - 30% Lifesteal and 87 MR), 183 additional bonus Armor on top of Thornmail to negate all the ADCs Lifesteal - but merely for the scaling damage part of Thornmail to deny the entirety of the Lifesteal. This calculation does not account for the flat damage.

However, the ADC needs all three last items to require the tank to have even that much Armor. Without Lord Dominik's , the tank would only need 83 Armor on top of Thornmail. Without Mercurial , he only needs 12.7 of Thorn's 100 Armor. And without Bloodthirster , the tank doesn't even need Thorn's own Armor!

According to the formula, 20% damage return alone would render a Thornmail user a nonvalid Lifesteal target for most to all of the game.

RebonackJun 28, 20172 votes

Though I'll say that I would prefer it to be an OnHit effect rather than an On-Reflect one. That would allow a Tank to actively leverage their heal-nerfing while at the same time giving a champ some degree of counter-play against it. Don't get hit.

More interactive all around.