Before he was still very strong in the early laning phase, but tear was that point that gave the opponent the opportunity to fight back from that early lead he most likely got and keep him down longer before he turns back on in the late game.
The change completely removed that mid game low point that he previously had and was the direct gameplay counterplay against him.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku24 votesjust remove his resistance in melee form.... would be a good start
Elkington13 votes[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsNEl0M6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-08T14:49:34.430+0000)
just remove his resistance in melee form.... would be a good start
I suggested this and got downvoted to hell for it. They did it with Nidalee, so I don't understand why Jayce gets to keep his.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku5 votesI suggested this and got downvoted to hell for it.
u shouldn't care about this...
They did it with Nidalee, so I don't understand why Jayce gets to keep his.
Dont know why nerfed him like this, many asked for this since months
Shadow Hazard3 votesI think it is okay to care about downvote brigades. It allows them to snuff out things that could be legitimate post but doesn't agree with their ideals. And typically once it happens enough to one post or comment, there will be sheep that do it because other have already without actually reading.
Z3Sleeper4 votesI've made threads that got tons of downvotes only to delete it and repost it the next day and get tons of upvotes.
Shadow Hazard3 votesit is sad that has to be the option to deal with that. posting when they may not notice
Purejoyce3 votesNidalee has different passive bonuses, so why would you compare the two like removing bonuses from jayce would make it even/fair?
Elkington7 votesNidalee has different passive bonuses, so why would you compare the two like removing bonuses from jayce would make it even/fair?
Nid used to get free resistances in cougar form. Jayce spends most of his time in ranged form, only going melee to close the gap, E someone away, or to finish someone off. Therefore, he has no need for free resistances. I'd say it would be a good start toward making him less bs to play against.
Purejoyce4 votesNid used to get free resistances in cougar form. Jayce spends most of his time in ranged form, only going melee to close the gap, E someone away, or to finish someone off. Therefore, he has no need for free resistances. I'd say it would be a good start toward making him less bs to play against.
How does it change what I wrote above? Also OP complains about the "changes that made jayce not needing a tear", but to regain the mana, he needs to actually start AAing in melee form, so how does it work between what OP wrote and what you say about "not needing to be in melee form"?
Elkington3 votesHow does it change what I wrote above? Also OP complains about the "changes that made jayce not needing a tear", but to regain the mana, he needs to actually start AAing in melee form, so how does it work between what OP wrote and what you say about "not needing to be in melee form"?
Because Jayce currently has a similar playstyle to Nidalee before she was reworked.
Purejoyce3 votesNo, he doesn't. And you still didn't answer how exactly it changes what I wrote above.
Elkington2 votesNo, he doesn't. And you still didn't answer how exactly it changes what I wrote above.
It doesn't. Because you're right about everything and Jayce needs no changes. He's fair and balanced.
I'm not arguing about this. He's going to be changed eventually, whether you like it or not.
kile1473 votesThe thing is that we need to give Jayce more reasons to be in melee form. The resistances are kinda overkill right now because they support him being unnecessarily tanky when he does his melee dives. If instead we nerf his mana pool a lot but buff his mana return on melee attacks it would encourage playing him more as a melee fighter, which would make the resistances more fair.
Ralanr25 votesYeah I learned about him having that yesterday. Honestly I don’t see why he still has it.
Logically I can see it because Melee need more resistances, but Jayce’s playstyle doesn’t involve being in Melee for long. He’s practically a ranged champion.
They should reduce it at least.
Iota Theta21 votesYeah I learned about him having that yesterday. Honestly I don’t see why he still has it.
Logically I can see it because Melee need more resistances, but Jayce’s playstyle doesn’t involve being in Melee for long. He’s practically a ranged champion.
They should reduce it at least.
Personally I think his Cannon form should be brought more in line, at least to make him actually brawl in melee form more. Part of it seems like his ranged form is so much stronger than his melee, especially an acceleration gate-shockblast.
Basically, I don’t think nerfing his melee form is the right path, because it’ll make him stay in ranged form even more..which isn’t fun to play against, but that is my opinion.
Battalion7 votesYou're getting downvoted, but you are correct. Jayce's Hammer Stance is strong, but balanced in that he only has one gap closer and a knock back. After his combo goes down he's relatively open in that stance and he's too close for effective use of his Cannon Stance (E + Q Combo). The problem lies in the majority of his damage coming from a super safe ranged nuke; that E+Q combo.
The reason Jayce hardly uses Hammer Stance and seems to only use it to put distance so that they can instantly go back into Cannon Stance; because Range > Melee in laning phase. Nerfing the early game scaling of his bonus damage from the E would go a long way to prevent him from safe poking and then bullying out a top laner in close when they're already missing 300-600hp.
Iota Theta2 votesYou're getting downvoted, but you are correct. Jayce's Hammer Stance is strong, but balanced in that he only has one gap closer and a knock back. After his combo goes down he's relatively open in that stance and he's too close for effective use of his Cannon Stance (E + Q Combo). The problem lies in the majority of his damage coming from a super safe ranged nuke; that E+Q combo.
The reason Jayce hardly uses Hammer Stance and seems to only use it to put distance so that they can instantly go back into Cannon Stance; because Range > Melee in laning phase. Nerfing the early game scaling of his bonus damage from the E would go a long way to prevent him from safe poking and then bullying out a top laner in close when they're already missing 300-600hp.
It sometimes seems like people would prefer glass cannon ranged Jayce over fighter Jayce. Meh, Idk. I just know he spends too much time in ranged
Battalion2 votesIn laning phase 100-200 HP easily decides the 1v1. Of course people will take the super safe matchup of range vs melee. That is why characters like Vayne have shown up top lane every now and then.
Junkο1 votesNah I'm pretty sure champions like Vayne and Quinn show up at top lane is because most melee's have absolutely 0 counterplay to them, not because they are safe.
Abyssphere4 votesWhat is safer than having 0 counterplay?
Hammermancer1 votesNah I'm pretty sure champions like Vayne and Quinn show up at top lane is because most melee's have absolutely 0 counterplay to them, not because they are safe.
both vayne and qunn aa from within darius hook range
The Space Cowboy1 votes
Banned, what now bitch?
Junkο1 votesExcept Vayne can E him away and Quinn can E away too.
Hammermancer1 votesExcept Vayne can E him away and Quinn can E away too.
you know what separates a good ahri from a bad one?
Not blowing your entire kit every time you press q
same can be said for darius
AirKingNeo1 votesJayce doesn't even use acceleration gate-shockblast to full combo you. He used to be used for poke comps, but now he's an all-in, full combo bully. Why would we nerf his poke when he's clearly not even using his poke?
Battalion1 votesI have never seen a Jayce not use the E+Q combo unless they did not know what they were doing. Jayce has the single largest poke by damage of any actual, non-meme top laner. The only top nuke I can think of that out damages Jayce's E+Q is Riven's R.
Hammermancer1 votesI have never seen a Jayce not use the E+Q combo unless they did not know what they were doing. Jayce has the single largest poke by damage of any actual, non-meme top laner. The only top nuke I can think of that out damages Jayce's E+Q is Riven's R.
well there's tryn's aa
also jayce's nuke is only so problematic right now because of the issues surrounding lethality, nerf that and he's back to doing normal damage with it
Battalion1 votesTryn's AA takes a lot of preparation to stack up while in lane unless it's past laning phase. I do not think Jayce is problematic, as there are answers to him, but I do think he's a bit overtuned at the moment due to other factors such as items and runes.
Great Ozymandius2 voteshere's an idea -- give his shock blast an ammo system with an internal cooldown. Ammo begins recharging only when he is in melee mode. This way, he needs to spend more time in melee mode so he can get ammo for his shock blast.
Also, put a mana cost on his transformation, so he needs to be more strategic about when he switches between forms.
Iota Theta1 votes[{quoted}](name=Great Ozymandius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsNEl0M6,comment-id=0000000100000002,timestamp=2017-12-09T01:09:34.459+0000)
here's an idea -- give his shock blast an ammo system with an internal cooldown. Ammo begins recharging only when he is in melee mode. This way, he needs to spend more time in melee mode so he can get ammo for his shock blast.
Also, put a mana cost on his transformation, so he needs to be more strategic about when he switches between forms.
That’s a different thought. Not sure about the only recharging during melee, because you’ll have to balance it between getting ammo as easily as staying near the back if the wave in melee form, like Garen regen (sorry, best example I could find), or have it feel rather painful just trying to get that ammo back in combat. Having to stay in combat longer, however, would pull him away from the full lethality build and force him to get some fighter items.
it’ll bring quite the limiting factor to his ranged form, making him have to plan his shockblasts better as opposed to just spamming it. Having to be in melee to recharge adds some opportunities for his opponents to fight back better, although he can potentially just knock them back, and it also adds more value to proper positioning, because Jayce would want the full value of the shockblast and his opponent would want to avoid it as much as possible.
The one I’m not too keen on is the mana cost on transforming, as he would then be the only one with that drawback. It’s seems like an odd nerf for something that is supposed to be more flexible, and putting a cost on it might reduce a willingness to swap forms when he really should. However, the full effect of a change like that I can’t be sure of, so my feedback on it might not be the greatest.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 voteswe should be rewarded for coming at his cac... but he is too tanky.
Shadow Hazard2 votesThis would be another good place to look. the effect it already has of the enhanced auto is already quite strong.
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesMaybe not removing it, but reducing it would be a good idea. Or make it scale with level. Or make it a %bonus resistance gain instead of a flat one, to make him have to opt into some armor and MR to make it worthwhile.
Purejoyce4 votesMaybe not removing it, but reducing it would be a good idea. Or make it scale with level. Or make it a %bonus resistance gain instead of a flat one, to make him have to opt into some armor and MR to make it worthwhile.
It does scale with level, which just confirms that a lot of people scream about nerfs without actually having any idea about the champion.
Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votesIt was removed from Elise and Nidalee, who act as Pickers like Jayce, so it seems fair. Obviously Gnar still has it because his second class is TANK of all things.
Hammermancer1 votesIt was removed from Elise and Nidalee, who act as Pickers like Jayce, so it seems fair. Obviously Gnar still has it because his second class is TANK of all things.
It seems like it'd be better if he didn't just function exactly like them?
He's a top laner most of the time that you see him so why not just move some of his scaling around to more defensive stats, and then lower his damage accordingly, he has a slow/knockback so he can function fine in a tankier setup.
Purejoyce1 votesNo, he can't. Tank jayce would be and is simply useless.
Hammermancer1 votesNo, he can't. Tank jayce would be and is simply useless.
I did not say tank jayce, first off, I said tankier with less damage
Is irelia a tank? no, not at all
think around that level, tweaked a bit of course
make him a viable duelist but don't make him into a juggernaut
Purejoyce1 votesIt's almost like these are different champions with different kits and roles in a team, eh? You want a duelist, go play fiora or jax. Or one of 20 other champions that build/play this way.
Hammermancer1 votesIt's almost like these are different champions with different kits and roles in a team, eh? You want a duelist, go play fiora or jax. Or one of 20 other champions that build/play this way.
Except he is a duelist in addition to being artillery
he's, by DnD terms, a switch hitter
he goes from ranged damage to melee damage.
also as a top laner he shouldn't honestly be doing what he does right now, squishy top laners are kinda stupid, he should at least be able to front line along side a tanky jungler or whatnot
Purejoyce1 votes[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsNEl0M6,comment-id=0000000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-09T23:44:07.373+0000)
Except he is a duelist in addition to being artillery
No, he's not.
he's, by DnD terms, a switch hitter
And you mention this... why?
he goes from ranged damage to melee damage.
And again -why exactly do you mention this? Do you assume I don't know that or what? Do you have any point in writing this or you just want to fill your post in one way or another for the sake of it?
also as a top laner he shouldn't honestly be doing what he does right now, squishy top laners are kinda stupid, he should at least be able to front line along side a tanky jungler or whatnot
Shouldn't why exactly? Beceause you said so? Based on what? So all top laners should be tanks or bruisers that play the same way... Give me a break.
GrReaper9615 votesLets be honest you can pretty much count with 1 hand the amount of champs that still build tear
Lùmen1 votesEzreal, Ryze... Karthus? wow i actually can't remember tbh
Joseraph1 votesCassio too
Dessem2 votesDoes Anivia still build Tear?
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesdon't know if it count... but ill build some tears on my Wukong sometimes
Hammermancer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MsNEl0M6,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-08T22:50:00.331+0000)
don't know if it count... but ill build some tears on my Wukong sometimes
wukong traditionally has a 52% winrate against jayce which was true the entire time i played across brackets up until the rune rework, I'd wait until the grasp redo to bitch about jayce
GrReaper961 votesI just take dom+sorc and take manaband. Covers almost all his mana problems
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesWas a joke about full tears build...
But i use manaband too, cause with this u can start with doran item (> corropted pot).
DorkunedAuras1 votesThat's 5, and I don't know of any others.