Mister I can farm from 1500 units away even though I have no finite resource and get fed anyway because I can farm freely
Seriously you want to make Zed balanced, give him RISK FOR GOLD LIKE MOST ALL* OTHER ASSASSINS
TehNACHO38 votesI too like to only talk about his strengths and never mention his weaknesses.
LankPants9 votesWhat you mean his complete lack of escapes... or his low damage... I know, sometimes if your teams retarded you put together 5 AD comps and lose, got em.
elon wątroba22 votesHis r's death mark is perfectly counter-able.
PDE5 Inhibitors7 votesYeah, just rush Zhonyas pre-6 :)
KONO RUBICK DA10 votes[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIc2seH2,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T16:52:02.116+0000)
Yeah, just rush Zhonyas pre-6 :)
doesn't need zhonya pre-6
remember that every new champ are getting a way of invulnerability countering zed, right now nearly 80% of the midlaner/top laner have a way to counter zed's ulti, that's pretty much weakening zed.
PDE5 Inhibitors11 votesrito said that lanes shouldn't be decided by champ select. There are always going to be counters..that doesn't mean something is balanced.
KONO RUBICK DA11 votes[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIc2seH2,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-09T17:24:29.838+0000)
rito said that lanes shouldn't be decided by champ select. There are always going to be counters..that doesn't mean something is balanced.
rito said, doesn't mean they are right, their game is full of counter pick, melee against 
is impossible, no cc against 
is impossible, they lied to you
La Bello18 votesZed is the posterboy for assassins because he has the most counterplay out of all the other assassins (in most cases).
compare fighting a Zed to fighting a Talon/Rengar/Katarina/
first of all WHILE ZED ULTS YOU youve got about .75-1 second to react to him ulting you. You can flassh to a teammate, flash as soon as he comes out, Zhonya's,Trollpole w/e you have
the large part of his burst is on a delay. If the deathmark does not pop you generally wont die. If you can find someway to rapidly heal yourself or shield yourself then you will most likely survive Zeds encounter.
Zeds early-mid game is strong but late game he must play more carefully. Much like Riven careless play will lead to a throw. in order to keep himself relevant he usually has to supplement himself with health or a Guardian Angel.
4.no stealth= easier to read. If a zed uses his shadow to make a straight B-line for your Ashe then you KNOW whats about to go down. this allows supports to react accordingly and the ADC to start backing up. having no stealth also means a Zed must rely on trickier positioning and use of brush.
Thats why Riot loves Zed. Hes strong but generally fair. After a certain point in the game him Ulting you could mean death for either of you.
Only Play Darius3 votesThank you for conveniently listing some of the many points of counterplay available when dealing with Zed. Yes Zed can terrorize you if you are a squishy champion but this is a team game.
Sadly it feels like most people would rather blindly continue circlejerking about LCS and favoritism instead of consider the valid points you have made about a mechanically intensive, skill based, counterplay loaded assassin. Probaby the same people who think Mundo is well designed and balanced in his current state
Dominick Destine14 votesThat's correct.
Zed is overpowered and needs nerfs. He's absurdly safe all game and is manaless, who thought that was fine? he should get fired.
Prospector Pete31 votesZed is really good early game, but falls off later on where people group up and buy things like Zhonyas.
Seenan11 votes[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIc2seH2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-01-09T16:06:49.475+0000)
Zed is really good early game, but falls off later on where people group up and buy things like Zhonyas.
You mean when he gets 400+/- AD due to his passive and starts deleting more than just squishy champs?
FrickendaChicken40 votesOr, you know, when teams group up. And he can't just simply 1v1 an enemy. The absolute MOMENT Death Mark shows on anyone, Zed is at an insane risk, he is at the forefront of the entire enemy team, 1 cc. 1 flash. Teamwork.
Zed (and all assassins actually) RELY on teams to be disorganized, and widens the gap of disorganization in the team by killing an important target. If the team is smart and understands that if they stop him from doing his one job, he has effectively been made useless.
Spizzle90006 votesTHANK YOU.
Dominick Destine9 votesZed is at an insane risk
That would be true... if he couldn't just press R or W and escape instantly.
Utter fail argument.
YOLO420SWAGSCOPE19 votes0.5 seconds is enough for him to get cc'd to death AND YOU FORGOT ZHONYAS AND QSS
Dominick Destine3 votes0.5 seconds is enough for him to get cc'd to death
Except he is untargetable for those 0.5 seconds.
Double fail.
AND YOU FORGOT ZHONYAS AND QSS
That has what to do with his free, instant escape mechanisms...? oh yeah, nothing.
iDarkWind16 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIc2seH2,comment-id=0003000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T19:23:12.322+0000)
Except he is untargetable for those 0.5 seconds.
Double fail.
That has what to do with his free, instant escape mechanisms...? oh yeah, nothing.
Except that he is untargable for 0.75 seconds and can't back to his shadow for 0.5 seconds. If you want, I can give you the link for the wiki for maybe you learn some new things.
It has to much to do. Zhonya's and QSS will basicly say "Nop Zed". Instant escape mechanics? Is there a way to cancel his W animation? Didn't know. And also it's free? It's a god danm ability with 18 second in early game. If he use it what he has? Nothing. If you or your jungler know what are doing, you can take the advantage of that.
It's just funny how you complain about his strong points, forgeting about his weakness. I find that hilarious and I'm glad and happy that Riot sometimes doesn't care about community opinion at all. If they did most of assasins would be gutted to the hell, to a spot where they couldn't 1vs1 a Squishy target.
Dominick Destine1 votesExcept that he is untargable for 0.75 seconds and can't back to his shadow for 0.5 seconds.
What's your point? if you time the ult correctly you can dodge longer than your supposed "0.5 second to die" nonsense.... but if you want to push it further; That's what your first shadow is for.
It has to much to do. Zhonya's and QSS will basicly say "Nop Zed".
Except he still gets a gap closer, 3 axis points of AoE damage and a free escape mechanism. Your argument fails for the third time.
iDarkWind2 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIc2seH2,comment-id=000300000001000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-09T19:38:39.202+0000)
What's your point? if you time the ult correctly you can dodge longer than your supposed "0.5 second to die" nonsense.... but if you want to push it further; That's what your first shadow is for.
Except he still gets a gap closer, 3 axis points of AoE damage and a free escape mechanism. Your argument fails for the third time.
I did not even undrstand what you said in your first point. Just didn't make sense at all. Nobody said the 0.75 untargable time was bad. In fact it is an amazing mechanic that make Zed able to outplay a lot. But ever reading your sentence again I didn't understand I'm sorry. Maybe it's my lack of English.
He still has a gap closer ... Yes he has. So? Unless he is so god danm feed, he won't be able to instakill you like that. And other thing. The fact that people think Zed can be an AoE burst, without be feed obviously, it's kinda hilarious. His Basic abilities are AoE, but what? His Q lose damage after hit the first enemy and doesn't make so much damage at all after hit the first enemy. His E it's AoE, but look at his range ... and it doesn't even double the damage if you use your E at the same time with your W (I'm not saying it should). Should I say something else? This is what happens in a "normal" match (When a Zed isn't 30-0). If Zed is feed, obviously he will make a lot of damage and one shot you, like everysingle champion when feed.
Axis the Dragon1 votesBasically, if you throw your W shadow behind you, you can then ult, do some damage, and port back to the W shadow instantly. That's what he's saying - the 0.5 seconds is largely useless if he can just port back practically instantly. Obviously he loses damage while doing this, but it's a good tradeoff for safety, imo.
iDarkWind2 votes[{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,re't alm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIc2seH2,comment-id=00030000000100000001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T21:32:57.930+0000)
Basically, if you throw your W shadow behind you, you can then ult, do some damage, and port back to the W shadow instantly. That's what he's saying - the 0.5 seconds is largely useless if he can just port back practically instantly. Obviously he loses damage while doing this, but it's a good tradeoff for safety, imo.
Oh Ok. It may work sometimes, but then you will lose your Dash. If he flash away or Dash away you won't be able to reach him. And like you said, you'll lose damage.
UrPalAl4 votesThe community just bicthes about anythings and argues only for their own point of view. Their completely biased and almost always wrong. I'm glad Riot doesn't listen because the few times they do (like to all those 'buff veigar!' threads, they just get a bunch of hate from the same people after he becomes OP. The funny thing I you rarely see any Miss Fortune, Lucian, and Ezreal hate threads, but there's a shit ton of Vayne ones even though she's nowhere near as OP as Miss Fortune.
iDarkWind2 votesThe community just bicthes about anythings and argues only for their own point of view. Their completely biased and almost always wrong. I'm glad Riot doesn't listen because the few times they do (like to all those 'buff veigar!' threads, they just get a bunch of hate from the same people after he becomes OP. The funny thing I you rarely see any Miss Fortune, Lucian, and Ezreal hate threads, but there's a shit ton of Vayne ones even though she's nowhere near as OP as Miss Fortune.
I'm glad there's somebody else that share my opinion. The main problem also is that they look at the strong points of one champion but forget their weakness's. And most of them don't even try to improve their gameplay against that champion, instead, they come to the boards and complain about him expecting to be listen by Riot. Just hilarious.
[{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIc2seH2,comment-id=0003000000010000000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-09T22:51:18.540+0000)
I know, I was just reiterating what he said. I hate Zed like the next guy, but I'd rather avoid misunderstandings during debates. =P
Oh ok. Thank you then. ^_^
Spizzle90008 votesThen have tanks with heavy CC around the squishies (who he'll probably target) and CC him to death so the carries can delete him if he ults someone.
FrickendaChicken9 votesExactly Zed doesn't do anything that other assassins don't do. It's just how he does it. Eve and Talon Flank people Kat jumps target to target Rengar and Nocturne show up out of nowhere And Zed picks a target to get to and fight, and hopefully kills them.
In fact, everyone else I just mentioned has a way to simply 100-0 someone reliably Zed has to rely on his ult, which~~ doesn't tell you if it will or wont kill someone~~,( been corrected on that one, thanks guys) is countered by 2 items entirely in 2 different ways each. (stop the final damage or stop the initial damage) is not a reliable escape (as mentioned above) and can't just simply duel most champs without some major outplay.
Spizzle90005 votesActually it does show you if it will kill someone (perhaps a typo? because it is both helpful to Zed and the target of Zed so they know whether or not to hit heal or whatever).
Plus, Zed is completely countered by any CC. His entire combo is negated if he ults someone and then is stunned for a second or two.
It's ridiculous. People are so damn butthurt about Zed. Haven't they noticed that the meta of immobile champions with bad early games favors Zed? Or that people are too dumb to avoid his shadow or whatever? Just play safe early and you'll be fine.
FrickendaChicken3 votesWhat's the tell that let's you know if Zed will 100% kill you? I can't seem to find it.
Yosuke Apperu6 votesPretty sure the death mark turns into a shuriken or something
FrickendaChicken3 votesI'll have to check it out, thanks. I must only be seeing the mark that shows up right away, then the little Red dot when that disappears.
Spizzle90003 votesYeah, what the other guy said. For all skins but PROJECT: it looks like the shuriken that Zed in his base skin throws and it's spinning while hovering over the enemy's head. PROJECT: has a PROJECT: shuriken doing the same thing.
FrickendaChicken3 votesThanks, I was dreading having to play Zed to find out, I'm so bad at him tbh.
Spizzle90003 votesNo problem. I love that guy. Definitely one of my favorite champions.
La Bello2 votesWhat's the tell that let's you know if Zed will 100% kill you? I can't seem to find it.
After Zed ults you If he has dealt enough damage to execute you you will get a shuriken over your head.
Another powerful tool for dealing with Zed is 
. this Item will practically FORCE him to waste energy shooting a shuriken at you hoping to pop it instead of simply ulting you. Banshees is a criminally underrated Item . its not just for mages if It blocks something like a jinx zap thats 500 physical damage that just got blocked!. its like legit one of the best defensive Items.
FrickendaChicken2 votesThen, on that topic, that just gives more counterplay to Zed's opponents. Pop Zhonya's when the shuriken shows up (which isn't always reliable because DoTS) and or don't and save it for later when you need to use it.
Spizzle90002 votesExactly. Although if the opponent is ignorant, you know exactly when to return to your shadow and they die. :D
Handin Out Naps2 votesIt's better to use Zhonyas right when you see the X. It cancels the entire Death mark and you take no dmg. Just a tip :).
Transgressor4 votesAnd hecan freely chose from:
as well as untargetability and great mobility.
Yeah I can totally see how a single 
and a couple of teammates is all it takes to deal with Zed...
http://gamingontop.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/W0QgS4N.png
FrickendaChicken5 votesWhere in any sense ever is it bad that a champion can have a wide array and diversity to do their job in order to give more enjoyment to the people who play the champion in different ways?
Zhonya's stops his damage QSS stops his damage Tahm Kench stops his damage 1 cc stops his damage All he has is damage. All he is is damage. Maokai's ultimate reduces the damage he can do by 20%
Like, if he can build all of those items and has some of the widest array of counterplay in the game then it's GREAT that all those items are viable, giving him more ways to use skill to outplay opponents to kill them so he can get his items.
Also, you didn't list the other 3 pairs of boots that are effective on him.
Transgressor2 votesWhere in any sense ever is it bad that a champion can have a wide array and diversity to do their job in order to give more enjoyment to the people who play the champion in different ways?
Ayy lmao. Wanna know which classes have no diversity? ADCs, APBruisers, Mages.
Like, if he can build all of those items and has some of the widest array of counterplay in the game then it's GREAT that all those items are viable, giving him more ways to use skill to outplay opponents to kill them so he can get his items.
That's according to you. Half the people in this thread, including me, have a different opinion on the matter. You do you though ;)
Zhonya's stops his damage
And that's all you have. Excelent counterplay.
All he has is damage. All he is is damage.
As well as great mobility, supersafe laning phase, no actual resource to handicap his mistakes, extremely great itemization that combines armor penetration/lifesteal/survivability with great cost-effectiveness, fucking untargetability on his ultimate, gets free AD from his W(which easily boosts him to 400AD), he is also extremely favoured by the meta right now.
I get it, you're trying to prove a point, but by doing so you chose not to mention both sides of the coin, as well as the fact that you're currently Bronze 1.
Also, you didn't list the other 3 pairs of boots that are effective on him.
Is that some sort of joke implying I might as well list all boots since I used half of them? Even if it isn't, those 3 pairs are what I deem most effective on him, compared to Mobis for example that get outsined by the buffed Swifties, and Mercs that got nerfed.
FrickendaChicken4 votesFine, I'll list both sides Pros:
Cons:
If you've noticed, these aren't the only pros and cons to Zed. But rather, the ones I can think of off the top of my head. He does a large amount of damage, but it's done in 2 parts. And btw, you can't think of balance of a champion and add items or kills to them, because that's not what they are designed around, they are designed around their own kit and resources inside of it, so I wont think of Zed like that.
Zed destroys champions without CC, but only in a 1v1. Just because I'm Lucian doesn't mean you can just assassinate me no consequences. You have .5 seconds before a teammate that I'm around can stun you, then you just get wrecked by an entire team.
And also, I'm Bronze simply because I don't play Ranked. I have what, 20ish games in ranked? And the main reason is that the people I face in my normal games are twice to three times better and more challenging to face and therefore more fun. I'd rather play with and against competent players in normal games than play with and against people who don't understand basic mechanics. Why would I do that? That's boring. In Bronze 1, I meet ADC's that don't farm, tanks that don't build tank, engage, or peel, and get more and more Leavers and ragers than I EVER have with normal games. And I've played 20ish games in Ranked, around 1,000 in norms.
Aeolian Melodies2 votesAnd also, I'm Bronze simply because I don't play Ranked. I have what, 20ish games in ranked? And the main reason is that the people I face in my normal games are twice to three times better and more challenging to face and therefore more fun. I'd rather play with and against competent players in normal games than play with and against people who don't understand basic mechanics. Why would I do that? That's boring. In Bronze 1, I meet ADC's that don't farm, tanks that don't build tank, engage, or peel, and get more and more Leavers and ragers than I EVER have with normal games. And I've played 20ish games in Ranked, around 1,000 in norms.
You'll face more challenging people and play with more competent people if you just facestomp your way through it and climb.
FrickendaChicken4 votesI plan on playing Ranked once Season 6 starts. But atm there's no point in Preseason, especially when it's end is just around the corner.
RangoTangoGanko2 voteszed scales late game ? his w allows him to not fall off late game and plus you should be ulting the adc late game
FrickendaChicken3 votesI said he falls off because the enemy team has grouped.
You ult the adc, you are away from your own team and in the faces of 5 angry people who want you dead. You are going to be stopped if they have ANY targeted cc, and most likely will be stopped if they can hit their cc.
It doesn't matter if you got a huge chunk of damage off on the adc, you failed at your job as an assassin and can't do anything to help the fight except for average damage. (I say Average because Zed's main damage is done in 2 parts, during the ult, and once it pops)
Hayaishi213 votesHis laning phase is safe because he has counterplay and skill requirement, COMPARED to all the other horribly designed champions of the Assassin class.
Can't have him have the same risk when he gets less reward.
Spizzle90003 votesEXACTLY. He has the slowest burst of literally any assassin. Hell, I burst people faster as late game Vladimir than Zed. Talon has very little counterplay other than a semi-weak early game.
FrickendaChicken3 votesTalon is destroyed by good warding and predictions.
Did he already ult and you know about it? Guess what? He'll be on your carry. Throw a skillshot behind them, it'll probably hit.
Is he waiting for the ult to escape? Don't give him the chance to escape.
Contrary to popular belief, Talon does not rely on Youmuu's, and can just simply 100-0, ult, get out. So your job should be to stop him from using ult, or debilitate his ability to assassinate. For example Tahm Kench eating his target, Nasus wither, Poppy ult, Ezreal E (to get away) Vayne condemn. You just have to predict when he will jump on someone.
(also if you demolish him early he has nothing in his kit to allow him to be able to do ANYTHING mid-late. So ask for a gank [if your jungler can do so])
Spizzle90003 votesAh, thanks! And, yeah, that's the beauty of civilized discussion. SHIT GETS DONE. For instance, a dumbass says, "OMAHRIVENZED'SOFUCKINOP" and then people are more likely to respond rudely. Then the downward spiral will continue.
Thank you for the tips! :D But a fed Talon is defs spooky late/mid game.
FrickendaChicken1 votesHe is pretty Spoopy. That's why I used to main him. Then I started playing bruisers and Aatrox :D [slayer-jinx-catface]
