ekko should not get a shield if he misses his w

FastAsHeck·Jun 9, 2015·22 votes·1,770 views

if you try an extended trade with ekko in lane he will use his w. you can obviously see him cast it and avoid it no problem, but the issue is that what now? you avoided it and he now has a massive shields so he autowins the trade even though you avoided it! i was playing as . i snare him and drop plants, he uses w, i see it and i run to the side so it misses however he becomes practically invulnerable (that shield is huge) for 2 seconds, his q comes up and he kills me. it was a free kill if he didnt have this stupid free shield. anyway i suggest giving him a shield only once he stuns at least one champion.

48 Comments

OhthePiplupJun 9, 201513 votes

Ya wanna know why the shield has a lower duration than the stun?

So he can shield without stun. If it was only a stun it would be a useless unreliable piece of shit ability that would make ekko useless

TrumpetJun 9, 20155 votes

There, someone finally gets it.

JustMyBassCannonJun 9, 20154 votes

Behold, intelligence in the League boards.

grLKQ9ma0oJun 10, 20151 votes

Ekko has an "I fucked up" button. He can't be useless.

I Main SwainJun 10, 20152 votes

you realize how many champs there are that have that button? Alistar Azir DrMundo Ekko Elise Kalista Kayle Leblanc LeeSin Lissandra Olaf Quinn RekSai Rengar Shyvana Singed Sion Sivir Soraka Talon Udyr MonkeyKing XinZhao Yorick Ziggs Zilean

grLKQ9ma0oJun 10, 20151 votes

How many of them go completely untargetable and heal themselves for over half their HP while dashing completely out of a situation? Leblanc is probably the closest, but basically none of the others have that much safety. You can bodyblock Sion. You can slow Alistar and Mundo and Kayle and Quinn and Singed. You can just follow many of the others, or use pink wards/red sweepers, or cc some of them, or actually just chase some of them. The fact is, none of them except ekko can dash way out of a fight AND not remain at low health. At least with Leblanc she'll stay at 10 health.

I Main SwainJun 10, 20151 votes

Heal: 100 / 150 / 200 (+ 20 / 25 / 30%「 (+ 3.33% per 100 AP) 」of damage taken)

the chances of getting that up to over half your hp are so ridiculously low you can count on it never happening. his ult will only have him dash completely out of the situation if he was far, far away from said situation 4 seconds ago. chances are, it will tele him at the most a thousand units away from where he is.

you talk about how you can cc the others as if you cant cc ekko. I would wager to say he's 100x more vulnerable to cc than singed and mundo. honestly, the chances of him healing himself for a ton and going somewhere he doesn't have to worry about getting caught are low. realistically, you are never going to heal for more than a third of your hp.

grLKQ9ma0oJun 10, 20151 votes

Your slow really matters on Ekko when he can just ult out. Hard cc is the only thing that can catch him, and you would have to chain hard cc over his shield/stun all the way through to death so he can't ult out and heal.

I Main SwainJun 10, 20151 votes

why the crap would I be talking about a slow? and no, you don't have to chain cc because he gets blown up instantly. the only reason he would even have his stun or shield is if he had planned the whole thing, for which he should be rewarded.

grLKQ9ma0oJun 11, 20151 votes

I'm talking about a slow because that's all you need on your examples of singed and mundo.

He doesn't get blown up instantly. If he ever feels like he's in danger, he can just hit his ult. Sure, if he was for some reason in a stupid position 4 seconds ago, then he's hosed, but most of the time, he'll dash in from outside the fight, then just ult back to a safe spot.

I Main SwainJun 12, 20151 votes

saying all you need is a slow against singed and mundo is like saying all you need is merc treads against veigar to negate his damage. and yes, he definitely can get blown up instantly. first off, cc was invented to prevent people from properly reacting, all you need is 1 brief stun or silence and he's screwed. if he ults, then congrats! you just made him waste ult!

grLKQ9ma0oJun 12, 20151 votes

I made him use his ult that will be up again in less than a minute. That's not really even him wasting it because we had to blow everything on him to try and get him the first time. Any Ekko that's not bronze 7 isn't going to panic ult just because he gets hit with a minor stun.

IcyPepperJun 9, 20158 votes

I dunno, the stun lasts longer than the shield.

During laning, there would be no point in the shield if he only gets it if he lands it. I mean, for ganks sure, but still...

Not that there aren't problems with his kit, tho.

FastAsHeckJun 9, 20151 votes

its a bit unfair to give him such a huge shield even when you dodge the stun. thats all im saying.

IcyPepperJun 9, 20156 votes

The shield would be useless during laning then, at least in a 1v1 situation. Unless you're a god and bait out an ignite or something, I suppose.

Hmph.

I mean, assassins are supposed to have more difficult laning phases, and the shield would be useful in a teamfight involving risk (unless you miraculously land a 5 man stun)...

FastAsHeckJun 9, 20151 votes

at least a REDUCED shield when he doesnt hit anything. thinking it again, completely removing the shield would be a bit ridiculus.

IcyPepperJun 9, 20151 votes

Maybe, I suppose.

I Main SwainJun 10, 20151 votes

the shield is only huge if it's 30-40 min in or if he's crazy fed.

Knight SoIaire Jun 10, 20151 votes

but if he hits the stun its possible for him to not get shield at all

KãtãrinãJun 9, 20155 votes

the shield is a reward to even go in the bubble. the stuns just a bonus. The shield is ment to shield from all outside damage not shield from stunned opponents.

FastAsHeckJun 9, 20152 votes

yeah so give him one of the biggest shields in the game for free even when he misses it? where is the risk-reward in that? he just casts it where you are standing, if you are dumb and dont move away he stuns you, if you do run it doesnt matter because for 2 seconds he is practically invulnerable.

KãtãrinãJun 9, 20153 votes

{quoted}

yeah so give him one of the biggest shields in the game for free even when he misses it? where is the risk-reward in that? he just casts it where you are standing, if you are dumb and dont move away he stuns you, if you do run it doesnt matter because for 2 seconds he is practically invulnerable.

The risk is him walking out of position to get the shield. if he uses it offensively, on top of you and you move out, he is NOW super far up correct? after 2 seconds boom insta dead if you gank him or anything or maybe kill him b4 the slow/shield thing drops to the ground? it has a 3 second delay so that whole time hes lining it up kill him or just back off and wait for the shield 2 drop off. its short we both know that. The shield is ment to REWARD HIM for taking a risk and moving out to the orb or let alone reward him for walking to the marker. if your in it congratz he stuns you if not least he gets something for it. the reward for dodging it is not being stunned for longer then his shield even lasts.

ShonjlJun 9, 20154 votes

Personally I dont think he should have a sheild at all, that move needs to decide what it wants to do, either be a slow/stun or a big shield, not both.

LankPantsJun 9, 20151 votes

Personally I'd lean towards keeping the shield and not the stun. An assassin having hard CC is a retarded idea.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

Man, strategic diversity is just so fucking retarded, isn't it? Don't you just fucking despise when riot tries to do something mildly innovative on a new champion, like they want to expand the number of playstyle options available to players or something stupid like that? How fucking dare they.

(And since I would be remiss to not offer any actual counter point, any kit that isn't 100% utility or overly based around random elements can be balanced. If he did a bit less damage nobody would think he was overpowered and it would just be a really cool thing that they created this super healthy assassin that doesn't do as much upfront burst as others, but has the utility to help him be just as effective as alternatives.)

LankPantsJun 10, 20151 votes

If he did a bit less damage nobody would think he was overpowered

If he did a bit less damage he'd be a bruiser with an assassin tag. There's no point building heavy damage on a champ if they don't deal enough damage anyway. His CC (he has near tank levels of CC, 3 slows is a lot) would lead into tankier builds naturally. I'm not saying that would be a bad thing, just that it wouldn't be an assassin.

The reason having an assassin (not a bursty bruiser Irelia , Pantheon , Nocturne ect. are fine) who has a hard CC is just a terrible idea is because it creates can't-run can't-fight scenarios where the assassin just straight up 100-0s you before the CC ends.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

That's accurate in the case of instant hard CC; but the avoidable, delayed nature of Ekko's W makes it worth very little for creating such scenarios. It's best used to punish enemies for attempting to create extended trades with Ekko or from running from him in predictable ways, or for zoning his opponents.

In any case, the bit about damage was just an example. I personally believe he's quite balanced as is, and while a few small numbers nerfs wouldn't quite pinch they're not needed either.

ShonjlJun 10, 20152 votes

Being diverse is different than having the kitchen sink and including everything bolted down put into one character. Only thing that makes Ekko different is that he has every single ability. Stun? Check. Slow? Several checks. Shield? Check. Mobility? Check. Burst damage? Check. A heal? Check. % health damage? Check. What doesn't he bloody have? I would explain it but seeing your post I doubt you would listen so I won't bother.

All that can be said that no Ekko defender can refute is when someone is fresh to a champ and manages to get pentakills with them, they are broke...period.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

By that logic Katarina's the most broken champion in the game. And that logic really doesn't apply since Ekko's pentakill power relies very heavily on the entire enemy team failing to properly play around one of his skills.

As for what he doesn't have? Reliability, point and clicks, instant CC, tankiness, instant burst (while he does decent enough burst it's spread out over a few seconds), and more. And while he does a lot of things well, he doesn't do any of them as well as champions devoted to those things (less burst than assassins, less lockdown than champions who are good at that, less reliability than other utility champions, less damage than most pokers, etc.).

And all that is completely ignoring the fact that the only thing about your post I was attempting to mock was the idea that an assassin with hard cc is stupid. I never even said Ekko wasn't OP.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

The ability would be utter shit if either facet were removed.

ShonjlJun 10, 20151 votes

Lol how would it be utter shit?

If it was just a shield, it at max level is like 1k+......that is pretty powerful, have fun breaking the shield let alone killing him, basically only way you are killing him is with multiple people, in a 1v1 you won't even break it.

If it was just a slow and stun, at max it is near 3 seconds and AOE. In that 3 seconds Ekko can easily kill at least one person or escape with ease.

Having both is pure stupidity. In no shape or form short of people just wanting him as stupid OP would it be utter shit to remove one half of the ability.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

Because it's on a three second delay. If he can't get at least something out of the ability if he wiffs it entirely, it's complete shit because of how unreliable it is. If the reward doesn't increase if he does land it properly, then why the fuck is it on a three second delay?

thePandevJun 10, 20151 votes

Waiting 3 seconds for a 2 second shield.. Only idiots try to burst Ekko down with his shield active, it's kind of like walking into a Nunu ult as a melee champion then wondering why you got one shot.

If you can't wait 2 seconds to apply all of your burst onto an Ekko, then it's more of an issue with the player fighting him than the champion's kit.

Without the shield he becomes instantly nuked by everyone outside of it, and considering it takes 3 seconds to even land, most people have changed position, making it useless.

His stun isn't 3 seconds, it's 2.25, so no it's not near 3 seconds. It just sounds to me as if you got wrecked by lots of Ekkos because you don't know how to play against him.

Well, what to expect. People always either cry OP or UP when a champion has barely even been released for a week.

Baron of BreadJun 10, 20152 votes

His shield has a three second delay. You should be able to avoid trading while he has the shield by either trading before it can land or back off and then trade after it lands. You're Zyra, you outrange him enough that either of those options should be available.

KanzlerJun 10, 20152 votes

DrNovaJun 9, 20151 votes

The shield is negligable unless he has high AP, aka fed or high CS.

And if he missed W and tried to come in for sheild, poke him.

FastAsHeckJun 9, 20152 votes

NELIGIBLE??? its ridiculusly strong. and im talking about already fighting him. he was on top of me and my plants were shooting at him, i would have killed him easily but he got the shield even though i avoided the stun.

MeserionJun 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The shield is negligable unless he has high AP, aka fed or high CS.

And if he missed W and tried to come in for sheild, poke him.

The shield is 150 / 195 / 240 / 285 / 330 and +80% of AP, that is not negligible. The base values are already really high, but that coupled with AP ratio with say 500 AP? 500 x 0.80 = 400 extra shielding + 330 max rank = 730 point shield late game, that is insane.

XeroKimoJun 9, 20151 votes

Bro if you are going for an extended trade against ekko, heck you are going against him as a range just disengage. You even have him slowed with your e. He pulled out his shield definitely disengage. He has cooldowns too if you were low after that disengage, go B. If you didn't die from the 1st half of his q, dodge the second half it isn't that hard. But I'd rather have the shield get toned down in ratio, over having it needing to stun to get the shield

BaughwsseryJun 9, 20151 votes

The shield is certainly NOT negligible. It's 150 base shield at level 1, roughly on par with barrier until level 3 (barrier being at 155 shield strength at level 3). And it has an .8 ratio, you don't have to really put many points into it to be a huge shield.

LegitBacon66Jun 9, 20151 votes

I think she should only get a shield if the enemy is inside it

kunkudunkJun 9, 20151 votes

I mean it is annoying but this nerf would actually ruin ekko. His shield could maybe be lowered since it is higher that pretty much every shield except maybe karma's mantra sheild (not sure about that though) but honestly the most annoying part of his w is probably the increased damage from the passive.

thePandevJun 10, 20151 votes

If you try an extended trade with Ekko, YOU WILL LOSE. Against Ekko your advantage as any other mid is you can simply burst harder than him. The point of Ekko is sustained, consistent damage, in which case, you will lose.

Oh, and for comparison: Lux's shield lasts 6 seconds, and if broken the first 3 seconds, is refreshed. @ level 1 it blocks just a bit less than Ekko's shield in total.

Also, keep in mind she just has to click a button for an INSTANT shield. He has to wait 3 seconds. With the next patch it will have a higher mana cost than Lux's shield as well, and it will be easier to see it in time.

Please, stop the whining. Riot is adding the 100 mana on R, nerfing his Q in patch 5.12, and his W is getting nerfed along with MS this patch.

Learn to play against him, ffs.

Aych PiiJun 10, 20151 votes

His winrate is going to take a nosedive in the next couple weeks, and it won't be because of the patches.

I Main SwainJun 10, 20151 votes

throwing this out there, his w stun lasts a quarter second longer than the shield. this change would make his shield virtually useless. the only change I think his shield could viably use is to either A) half the shield but double the duration or B) keep the shield as strong as it is but have it rapidly decay over 4 s

DracidJun 10, 20151 votes

OP has a point. whats the point of the stun AND shield. The shield duration is 2 seconds while the stun duration is 2.25 seconds. So the shield is off before the stun is over. But if he misses he stun, he is still rewarded with a shield that has 150 HP and early on its not hard to have a 200+ shield.

Its literally a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If you get stunned you lose the trade, if you don't get stunned you lose the trade because now he has a decent shield on him. Its essentially a Riven shield with only 5 more second CD but has 2x or more the shield strength PLUS a stun if it hits.

Either get rid of the shield OR make it so if you don't hit someone with it, the shield strength is reduced by half. More risk and reward when using it because right now, there is literally no downside to using this ability. Even if you miss with it you get something out of it and that's not really good because it doesn't provide much or any counterplay. If he misses you but still gets the shield, he will just jump on you with his e and out trade you anyway

TL;DR cut the strength of the shield in half if you miss the stun

JustMyBassCannonJun 11, 20151 votes

Or just force him into an awkward position for the shield.

While he's taking the 3 seconds to set up his W, set up your own trap that punishes him for going for his shield. He doesn't come out naturally winning the trade just because he has 150 bonus HP from a shield.