Boards›Gameplay

Dragon Changes

Stacona··1 votes·406 views

Give Constructive advice; do not be aggressive, do not try to start unnecessary arguments, and do not downvote - speak your mind, say what you do not like, and improve on the subject matter - downvoting will not help anyone. Period. If you are too lazy to be constructive, then stay neutral.

As far as I know low elo players go full out ape for the Dragon, but as you climb the ladder Dragon is irrelevant (for good reasons) with the only two Dragons having value being 1 and 5. In LCS / competitive play Dragons are either completely ignored and one team gets free Dragons just because no one cares about it OR people contest it, but only because they are still used to Dragon granting something useful to make you more powerful (gold for items)- now I am not suggesting putting Dragons back to granting gold, but give them something useful to make you more powerful in some fashion with Dragons plus make Dragons equally as useful for every member of the team since it is a team objective.

I will post my ideas and they will involve with buffing up the player/team with Dragons to be stronger in teamfights without necessarily having a gold lead for the early Dragons and then transition into more game ending Dragon buffs for the later Dragons with the 5th+ Dragon obviously being the powerful duration based Dragon buff. Having the Dragon control team to be able to eventually end the game out with having a bunch of Dragons is a key note I want to put out; and the most emphasized thing I am going to do is make sure Dragon is equally as powerful for EVERY member of the team and not just the roles with gold.

Values will be based on a range with the first number being champion level 1 and last number being champion level 18. This is to have the effects not too overpowering early and not too weak later on.

Dragon (1) - Sharp Claws: Gain 2 - 20 Attack Damage and Ability Power.

Dragon (2) - Mighty Tail: Dealing damage to enemy champion shreds 15% of their armor and magic resist for 3 seconds (does not stack) (8 seconds cooldown).

Dragon (3) - Tough Scales: If you have not taken damage in the last 10 seconds gain a 50 - 230 point shield.

Dragon (4) - Fiery Breath: If you have not attacked in the last 3 seconds ready a fireball to toss at your target for your next basic attack increasing your basic attack range to 800 units to deal (+80%AD)(+40%AP) physical damage. This fireball applies as a single target spell.

Dragon (5) - Aspect of the Dragon: Dealing damage burns enemies for 150 true damage over 3 seconds and increases the effects of the previous Dragon stacks for the next 180 seconds: Sharp Claws: Gain 4 - 40 Attack Damage and Ability Power. Mighty Tail: Dealing damage to enemy champions shreds 30% armor and magic resist for 5 seconds (does not stack) (8 seconds cooldown). Tough Scale: If you have not taken damage in the last 8 seconds gain a 100 - 460 point shield. Fiery Breath: If you have not attacked in the last 3 seconds ready a fireball to toss at your target for your next basic attack increasing your basic attack range to 800 units to deal (+160%AD)(+80%AP) physical damage.

AFTER NOTES:

Sharp Claws - Similar to how the first Dragon is right now, but using a flat value instead of a % gain that increase by champion level allows for everyone to benefit from the first Dragon as a team perspective and does not require gold to not only effectively use the buff but prevents insane snowballing with a significant gold lead. In short team equality and getting stronger through only Dragons and not Dragon plus gold allow you to essentially win the game through an entire new route of Dragons, obviously you need more Dragons than just this one to accomplish the overall goal, especially a multiple Dragon lead over your opponent.

Mighty Tail - This does the same kind of thing as Sharp Claws as in makes you offensively stronger to help you win teamfights.

Tough Scales - This has more uniqueness here and being not only good for teamfights starting off a fight with a small shield bonus as sudo health, but this is to help you siege especially against poke comps without granting any kind of health regen or healing effects. This is basically a transition effect of still be good for teamfighting but transitions into siege power to end the game.

Fiery Breath - Even though this can be a poke tool, it is mainly to grant a bunch of range to help siege down turrets to end the game, even for normally melee basic attackers. The damage is reduced to 80% AD from 100% (normal basic attack damage) because of the large range it has.

Aspect of the Dragon: - Generally the same thing, grants a super buff for 180 seconds that IF this dragon buff is ever achieved the team with this buff has a very high chance of winning off of it. Instead of simply saying double the effects I stated the increased effects because of the uniqueness in some of the buffs.

Hope you appreciate the ideas, and I really want Dragon to feel like it is powerful and does something when you earn your Dragons, and have teams contest Dragons for interesting teamfights around the area or fast pushing strategies actually have strategic weight and is not something you do because it is the only meaningful decision. These changes should make pushing and Dragon controlling both strategic routes to accomplish the end goal of Nexus destruction. ~ Stacona

16 Comments

GaleWinUnleashed2 votes

You realize reposting the same exact thing 3 times will not magically alter public opinion about it, right? I still say it's great you're trying to find ways to improve the game, but it needs some work.

Stacona1 votes

It is too reset and try to create civil discussion

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

Civil is fine. I'm trying to be, but it's difficult when i very strongly object to everything I have so far seen you post. There's been some obvious thought and effort put into your ideas, which is good, but they're all going the wrong direction. I love how much time you're spending on these, really, but I don't believe you understand exactly what your suggestions would do to the game as a whole.

Your version of the dragon buff offers too many direct buffs to combat; the purpose of the current dragon buff is to offer greater map pressure overall, not to simply boost damage in a teamfight. However, by the time a team kills dragon for the 5th time, they've obviously invested a lot of time and effort into controlling that area of the map, and so a more tangible buff is appropriate. 5th dragon offers a significant boost, both to damage and the other less-visible effects that it previously gave them (which may not be as obvious, but they are still rather powerful).

Your version pretty much just packs on more and more stats, each stage decreasing the enemy's chances to win a direct fight. Current dragon lessens that horrible feeling of the enemy slowly snowballing against you by distributing the power to other areas besides direct champion-vs-champion combat, leaving more possibility to actually win a teamfight and make a comeback. Think about it in real-life terms: would you rather be slowly crushed to death, losing your ability to make any kind of move at all until you are finally killed? Or would you rather duel to the death against an opponent slightly more powerful than you, knowing there's a good chance you'll lose, but also knowing that when death comes it will be swift?

Change of topic: One particular part of your idea that I'm very interested in is number 4. That type of attack sounds like it could be quite fun as part of a champion's kit: buff an ally so that their next attack has greatly increased range, along with bonus damage. That doesn't exist yet; I think there's room for it somewhere in the roster, but not here.

Stacona1 votes

If Dragon does the same thing as pushing down turrets, then there is no point to kill Dragon because it does not offer anything different strategically since it is only a noob trap since it is a nerfed version of pushing turrets - the point to trading turrets for dragon is because Dragon is meant to make you stronger , but if dragons are meant for pushing and you gave up turrets for the dragon - you lose straight up because dragon does nothing for you, so granting direct power in some fashion is better since it is a different strategic route to invest in dragons and win in a different way rather than the fast push strat and then take baron for siegeing- obviously all routes technically take baron to help break the inhib wall- but since dragon does the same thing as pushing turrets, and turrets give gold and map control it is better to kill turrets and ignore dragon the entire game since it does nothing for you and does not make you stronger in any aspect

What I want with Dragon is yes make you very strong with multiple dragons, but if you contest dragon then you can neutralize the effects like how old dragon worked or make the team less ahead by getting more dragons for yourself--- but there is also the gold route so even though one team gets stats from dragon they can be behind in gold and items so the gold team may or may not be ahead depending on the gold lead and dragon lead--- so this is a very distinct difference between how you obtain ultimate victory

actually i made a champion concept where you place an artillery on the ground that a user can ride in granting a "shield" (the artillery's health bar is the shield) that grants a large amount of bonus range-- there was some kind of restriction like your movement speed is halved or something while in the artillery, but the champion that places the artillery i created a siege support champion that is of course for making your allies poke and siege champions- the bonus range is just the range of the artillery --- it was back on the old forums and really old concept

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

The point of dragon is to slowly increase your effectiveness everywhere without just granting flat damage at every stage. Baron buff is the meant for pushing, Dragon is more general. I think you underestimate the power of that 15% damage to turrets/inhibs and minions/monsters. It's stronger than the 6% bonus AD/AP granted by the first dragon. It's even stronger than the 15% armor/mres shred that you propose, provided the hypothetical target has more than 35 or so armor/mres to begin with (if I did my math right, which I may not have). But it does that without also making you incredibly powerful against champions, which is where the main flaw in yours is.

If a team has multiple dragon buffs more than the opponent, odds are they've been winning fights anyway. Adding additional stats and buffs that directly aid them in further fights decreases the value of the opponent's potential to make skilled plays. Eventually they could make a brilliantly planned attack -- and still lose, because the other team is that much stronger. It's better to maintain the possibility of a comeback for as long as possible, dependent on the cleverness of the enemy team.

Stacona1 votes

so where i have buffs to take out objectives or buffs to help you become stronger both are wrong and yea- decide what you want Frist before commenting- because my overall goal is very clear as in make dragons equally strong for everyone and is completely independent of other factors like gold, as well as make dragons feel like you get stronger instead of providing a weaker strat of an alternative strat, which you cannot use the dragon strat because the other team got stronger from the other strat

tl;dr : current dragon = redundancy

there are multiple ways to win though like killing turrets or split pushing if the other team is teamfight stronger or picking people off to avoid teamfights that way, there is a way where teams could be losing lanes but have dragon control overall if a team has a gold lead and dragon control they should be ahead if they are ahead everywhere--- but if you are only one dragon advantage your team should not be that much more stronger than the other team, 3 dragons advantage is different and should feel like you are 3 dragons ahead if you are getting all the dragons

but if dragon has a higher value / actually has value then teams will contest them causing each team to have less total dragons for their teams - if dragon is snowballing teams too hard then values will be adjusted to grant multiple dragon power, but make sure each dragon individually is not overwhelming strong

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

Of course Dragon is redundant; it's meant to make it easier to win by whatever strategy you prefer, but it's not required for any of those strategies at all. And yet it is still very powerful if you opt into it. Steadily mounting pressure.

As for the rest of your statement, please note that what you are describing applies equally well to your version as it does to the current one. It just seems that you undervalue the dragon buffs in their current form.

there are multiple ways to win though like killing turrets or split pushing if the other team is teamfight stronger or picking people off to avoid teamfights that way, there is a way where teams could be losing lanes but have dragon control overall if a team has a gold lead and dragon control they should be ahead if they are ahead everywhere--- but if you are only one dragon advantage your team should not be that much more stronger than the other team, 3 dragons advantage is different and should feel like you are 3 dragons ahead if you are getting all the dragons but if dragon has a higher value then teams will contest them causing each team to have less total dragons for their teams - if dragon is snowballing teams too hard then values will be adjusted to grant multiple dragon power, but make sure each dragon individually is not overwhelming strong

Quick reminder, once again, that dragon's overall purpose is to be a buff to everything, to enhance whatever strategy your team is otherwise attempting, and is not intended to be a strategy in and of itself. Let us assume for the moment that each dragon in both versions, with the exception of the 5th dragon in either form, has exactly equal value (they're actually pretty darn close anyway). Yours makes having a significant dragon lead almost impossible to overcome, because every one of them adds directly to your teamfight ability. Crude, but very effective. A dragon lead in the current version, though, does not mean that the losing side can no longer risk teamfighting. It means that they have to try harder to organize a teamfight that is weighted to their advantage, or be slowly pushed back to their base by strategic use of the different buffs they have. They aren't doomed by any means, they just have to play smarter.

In a competitive game such as this, we don't want one team to have a massive advantage walking into a fight. We want the advantage to come from how the fight plays out. We want it to always be possible to win.

Surely you agree that pulling off a comeback win is one of the most satisfying experiences you can possibly have in League. Right? Your version makes this much less likely for the losing team.

Erockandroll2 votes

Not enough Transparency.

  1. Favors AD over AP since 20 AD is worth more than 20 AP.

  2. Favors Assassins who can deal one Sh*t load of damage within 3 Seconds.

  3. A tad bit more Transparent than the others, but Probably favors more squishier targets

  4. Favors Poke champs, favors melee (in perhaps an Unbalancing way)

it's a mess.

Stacona1 votes

but mages can still gain more damage from autos so they use the ad and ap more than marksman can use AP which is zero as far as the damage roles go

i changed it % shred, this way it is not very effective against squishies-- feel free to suggest something better here then

shield lasts longer with resistance stats, so stronger on tanks- think health regen mechanic just with a shield instead allows the damage to stick so the team cannot starve a team out by eternally being in a siege, for teamfighting it is slightly more health at the start of a fight

doesnt favour poke champions, reverse actually - but this is a siege tool --- suggest other ideas if you dont like it then

Stephenizgod2 votes

Well i know it looks good on paper but in the actual game im afraid this would not work how you think it would work.

(1) Favors AD champions more then AP, sure a mage uses both but what mage is going to go out of their way to AA simply because they have the AD for it. There are plenty of AP scaling abilities for AD champions, some of which scale 100% with AP.

(2) Seriously? We have enough anti-resistant items that are quite easy to acquire, we really don't need more ways to melt tanks.

(3) This is just silly.

(4) An interesting mechanic for sure, but maybe for a Support not a Dragon Buff.

Honestly the Dragon Buffs right now are fine, the only problem is the emphasis on the first and last Dragon Buffs. They are not overpowering, but they offer enough early and late game power respectively to have a noticeable impact on the game. If the focus could be shifted equally among the 5 Buffs so that it is no longer ignored after one buff then we might see an improvement in gameplay.

Stacona1 votes

holy sht you guys dont read the full post and focus waaay too heavily on the ideas

i actually made an artillery support concept- i should do another more updated one in the concept folder

the dragons are flawed and do not think the middle 3 are good at all - not to mention dragon 2 literally breaks the game

Stephenizgod1 votes

holy sht you guys dont read the full post and focus waaay too heavily on the ideas

I commented on your entire post, i even numbered them for each buff, and what else are we suppose to talk about other then your ideas... You posted an IDEA and asked us what we think, then when we tell you its not such a good idea you get mad? Dont post if you arent willing to accept other peoples opinions. Just because i do not agree does not mean i just skimmed through your post, i even read it again before replying here just to be sure, and what do you know, my opinion has not changed... surprised? I hope not.

the dragons are flawed and do not think the middle 3 are good at all - not to mention dragon 2 literally breaks the game

They are not as flawed as you make them out to be, they have their uses and it is important to collect them through-out the game. Ignoring them only works if both teams ignore them, otherwise one team will have a natural advantage at all aspects. They are not so powerful as to change the game drastically and yet they are not weak enough to just completely have no impact. Yes they could be tweaked slightly, but a whole new buff system? No i dont think so, specially not one so teamfight oriented.

Just because a lot of people disagree with your post does not mean you have bad ideas, its nothing against you, this one was just not a winner. So dont take it so personally.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I feel like this would be arguably worse for how the Dragon currently is. The main reason they don't have all the Dragon buffs affect teamfights because then it would seem almost necessary to win the game with.

1st Stack: I almost prefer this, but it adds too much early game power for the team who gets it, almost benefiting Adc's and Fighters more then the AP.

2nd Stack: Alright, so lets just take this buff, and now imagine five people having it. Champs like Fizz or Swain who benefit from long drawn out fights would have much more potential, and those like Syndra have even more power to nuke enemies with a Q-W-E-R-Q combo.

3rd Stack: You get a Malphite Passive, you get a Malphite passive, EVERYONE GETS A MALPHITE PASSIVE

4th Stack: Come on, no mage is gonna deceide to AA, if only to nuke a target of their remaining health after, say, a Syndra combo.

The game isn't only based on teamfights, as much as these changes could benefit those who have weak teamfight ability, it only makes teams with better teamfight potential (Sej, Morg, Kat combo anyone?) harder to fight against and could make holding off a team while someone splits even more dreadful. So those are my thoughts. :T

Stacona1 votes

The First Dragon helps mages more because they can use both stats, ad champions can only use AD -- it is not super strong early since it is essentially increased AD and AP per level stats (i know you do not actually get AP per level)

The shred does not stack and has a cooldown for the champions effected -- think of something else here if you can do better

Besides it being a flat gain instead of %, pretty much --- this is too grant a regen type of mechanic without the regen, so a shield if you have not taken damage for awhile--- not sure if you are complaining this or what or stating the obvious

4th dragon transitions to a way to end a game more easily , this is a siege buff to damage turrets if a game is taking awhile to end

true the game is not based around only teamfighting and there are other strats to end the game like fast pushing turrets, split pushing, and baron minions to last long to take further turrets--- but I wanted to create Dragon to be completely independent of everything else so that dragon control teams can win through taking a bunch of dragons ---

i said multiple times that my ideas are ideas, post your own thoughts and ideas and we can work out a great solution to fix dragon into something better and independent of other factors like gold --- the important things about dragon is having the dragon to also be equally as useful to everyone on the team - old dragon did this and new dragon is not even close- i dont want dragon to be about a completely independent strat to reach nexus destruction

RogueWill1 votes

If riot doesn't want it granting gold it should give a bigger boons but for a set amount of time rather than a small permanent bonus. something a bit smaller than a baron buff

Stacona1 votes

I am fine with Dragons giving only 3 minute buffs that scale on game time - grants a bunch of offensive stats giving a team a powerplay while baron will be the sieging buff to take down turets

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Stacona

I am really happy that new Nunu + Willump is not a dark edgelord
Gameplay70 comments
64
votes
I feel ike... Cull needs a buff...
Gameplay65 comments
55
votes
The Burst Age for League of Legends Straight Up is NOT fun to play in!
Gameplay68 comments
50
votes
The One Buff Bard He Needs!
Gameplay24 comments
50
votes
This is a Creative Works Forum
Concepts & Creations72 comments
48
votes
Nexus Towers in 8.11
Gameplay31 comments
46
votes