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6.9 Jungle Worries- Warwick

Meep Man··9 votes·11,018 views

Currently, on the PBE, there a TON of changes that benefit Warwick or neutral change.

Bloodrazor Warwick is not quite as good at killing squishies (or is he?), but much better at tank busting. His ultimate now deals bonus physical damage equal to 15% of the enemy's max health. This stacks with Bork, so Warwick can deal serious % health damage to his target.

Guinsoo's A hybrid on-hit item. This just screams Warwick. Not sure if it will be built, but it's only a potential benefit in my eyes and cannot hurt the wolf.

Red Buff Changes Pretty big one here. Red buff's first tick now applies on-hit/scales with attack speed, meaning that it will also apply on every Warwick ultimate tick. Practically adds back the Booty Hunter Warwick from Preseason 5 with Challenging Smite (maybe not as bad, but it's like it's close relative).

Spirit Visage Small, but Warwick is somewhat of a Drain Tank, so the increase in healing from Spirit Visage from 20% to 25% is a benefit as well.

Experience Jungle Buff This means Warwick is reaching Level 6 quicker, meaning earlier ganks. This is a buff to most junglers, but especially junglers gated by ultimates.

56 Comments

RiotRiot Sotere23 votes

I for one welcome our new WW jungle overlord. I think the Guinsoo's will be too expensive, given his other really good item buys.

Meep Man1 votes

Yeah, out of the all the changes to him, I say this is the smallest potential buff/change. My main worries are the Experience Buff to make his Ult get into the game quicker and the Red Buff changes.

Sahn Uzal4 votes

My personal worries for patch 6.9, if these Dragon changes prove to be really strong, and Dragon and herald become actually important to contest.. I'm afraid early game junglers like Kindred Elise LeeSin Nidalee will become even stronger, and jungler with a weaker early game, especially tank junglers, will become (even) weaker...

TroyTheUnconquer1 votes

the moment the jungle changes hit live, im immediatly playing a ton of Kindred Jungle to figure out my earliest dragon clears, with the current one i can manage level 7 absolute or level 6 if i ult just so the dragon doesn't get in the circle, but apparently the dragons are stronger now

Sahn Uzal2 votes

Fuck that, I'm spamming morde. I want some of dem elder dragon pets

Scream Engineer2 votes

currently if you rush devourer you can do it lvl 5

what you deserve2 votes

wtf are you doing, then? i can always level 5 drag as kindred.

TroyTheUnconquer1 votes

Haven't even tried it below level 6, thanks for the tips that i can do it level 5 lol, i'll make sure to try it very next kindred game

13 Snakes1 votes

currently, ww can solo drag at like level 5, just based on his w, and 3 points on q.

crippler381 votes

you forgot Shaco in that list

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I think it'll take more than that to bring shaco in to the meta, no offense :P

crippler381 votes

very offended since shaco can do pretty much everything all those other junglers can do!

Bowserkins1 votes

Shaco will be a contested pick in this meta if early dragon and rift herald become priority. His early game is among the top tier and the fact he can tank monster with his clone and boxes make him very useful. We'll see how it all plays out.

crippler381 votes

pretty sure herald ignores the clone but he can just tp behind it. Every time I try to get the herald to hit the clone the thing ignored it before so I dunno, but yeah his clear of dragon especially once he hits 6 is one of the safest ever because of that mechanic.

P0kets1 votes

I can still get the new dragons with WW at lv3.... i mean i take both buffs and back to get a couple daggers but still manage all the new dragon elementals @ lv3. some are just easier than others

kDrakari1 votes

I dunno, Warwick might actually be one of the better champions for new Guinsoo's if he can get the gold. While other on-hit champions will struggle with stacking it up before it activates, Warwick can ult someone and get 5 stacks while the target is CC'd, then just one more hit and it's fully maxed. In fact, I haven't looked at it closely, but when I was using it earlier the auto attack that gets the 6th stack seems to also benefit from the passive and becomes a double hit, so ult + 1 AA would apply on-hit effects 7 times.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Guinsoo's only stacks on attack, not on on-hit, so his ult doesn't give a single stack for it(test it in a bot game if you don't belive me)

kDrakari1 votes

Well in that case it will be terrible on him instead, even worse than most on-hit champions.

13 Snakes1 votes

it would be the same as it currently is. same stacking...

kDrakari1 votes

Current Rageblade reaches full stacks after 4 auto attacks for melee champions, new one doesn't fully stack until 6 auto attacks. Plus, he won't be getting phantom hits before it's fully stacked, and he won't be getting the AoE damage, lifesteal, or spell vamp when it IS stacked.

Maybe "terrible" isn't quite the right word, but my understanding of Warwick is that he builds on-hit items because of the synergy with his ult, and if he needs to ult and THEN get 6 auto attacks before Rageblade is good then I don't think it's worthwhile.

Bowserkins2 votes

I would argue that it is indeed terrible on him. The cost of the item on a jungler alone is extremely hard to swallow not to mention that it isn't on hit. I used to get guinsoo back when i played warwick because it was a blessing for jungle clears and was a great second offensive item if you wanted to hold off on visage. In mid to high elo games it is very difficult to fathom warwick getting 6 autos off in succession. Definitely go with something else.

Venowolf4 votes

Guinsoo, Btork, visage, bloodrazor Will be core items on him, I'm afraid in some áreas of this Warwick. As a Warwick main (my name is pretty obvius) I can see a potential 30% max health plus btrk x2 after a full charge Guinsoo ulti, you can add red buff, challenging smite etc. to procs a beautiful simple R kill on a squishy target, but he gonna spend a long time to build all those items because Guinsoo, btrk are expensive items and the most clear disadvantage on the Warwick side is the new Grievous wounds so maybe he could stay in the same state or even worse.

Meep Man4 votes

The new Grievous Wounds don't nerf Warwick too much since that only affects outside healing. All of Warwick's healing is inside healing.

Shonjl7 votes

Yes it will, GW is being made to reduce all types of healing.

Meep Man6 votes

Yes, but the GW changes makes it now affect outside healing such as Soraka and such. Warwick is already affected by it right now.

BladeSteel3 votes

[deleted]

Decrit4 votes

I think that you misunderstood the dude over here.

Pratically he means that GW already afflicted WW, but with the next patch now it will affect everyone meaning that people will have less chance to survive by healing from him if someone wounds them.

There is to be said however that even WW can' t be healed properly by allies with this change, so it is again pretty neutral ( even thought there can be cases where this can swing both ways, like the difference between enemy having soraka and ww having a soraka behind).

Meep Man1 votes

Ah, I just hardly see it as a nerf to Warwick especially since it's more of a nerf to the healer and not the receiver of heals UNLESS it is someone who really relies on healing and peeling from allies, such as Kog'Maw.

Decrit1 votes

Yup, me too.

Venowolf1 votes

I said it because items Like the new morellonomicon and mortal reminder gonna gain a huge popular boost, I mean if right now people barely build them with the new GW they gonna be more attracted and is here when the blood hunter will suffer.

Hige3 votes

Warwick was THE original jungler, I guess he's supposed to be up there but more importantly... if he's out of line they'll nerf him until his rework :/ that sucks

BastionKross2 votes

We've been in this situation before where item changes make WW too strong, and Riot handled the situation.

...By delivering two huge nerfs to his kit, one to his jungle item, and one to his favored enchantment all in one patch. WW didn't just get hit with the nerf bat, he got carpet bombed and nearly destroyed as a champion.

Fortunately, there's been hints that WW is the next champion to get majorly reworked after Yorick. Unfortunately, it might be CertainlyT doing the rework.

NeoBrawler2 votes

{quoted}

We've been in this situation before where item changes make WW too strong, and Riot handled the situation.

...By delivering two huge nerfs to his kit, one to his jungle item, and one to his favored enchantment all in one patch. WW didn't just get hit with the nerf bat, he got carpet bombed and nearly destroyed as a champion.

Fortunately, there's been hints that WW is the next champion to get majorly reworked after Yorick. Unfortunately, it might be CertainlyT doing the rework.

Ohh God. Him. He will get some strange mobility ability for the sake of mobility

cino1 votes

He's definitely going to be a monster. If Riot intends to keep these jungle and item changes around for a while, they'll probably just tune his numbers. I can't see it having a negative effect, I mean, I havn't seen a Warwick in a position other than jungle since season 3

TroyTheUnconquer3 votes

AP/Tanky ww is actually pretty good top lane if your against the right person tbh

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

am pretty sure warwick focus is to one shot the apc or adc with his ult. not tanks.

Sire Hippington1 votes

honestly, it's more a nerf imo, mostly because bloodrazor does physical damage instead of magical. Devourer gave not only the obviously powerfull phantomhit, but also far more damage vs squishys, especially for the ult. And most of the time, you want to ult a squishy for the lockdown and damage. Vs tanks, he will hardly deal more damage as most tanks stack 300+armor and your not going to get armorpen on ww, while magicpen is far more likely with wit's, runes and boots. That it doesn't need farming lijke devourer might be enough of a + to still make him a bit better overall, though his lategame certainly will be worse. Guinsoo's is unlikely to be a good item on him, it costs to much for not offereing any defnse, and he has a really hard time stacking it as his ult is a spell that applies on-hit, and not actually 5AAs, so guinsoo's doesn't stack from the ult. Spiritvisage is asmall buff, though not sure if it's actually better when befor if faceing ap heavy comps, don't forget it also lost 15 mr. The one thing that really benefits him is the redbuff change, and to some extend the xp change that rewards extendet jungleing befor the first back some more.

what you deserve1 votes

Guinsoos does still stack off his ult actually

Meep Man2 votes

It never has, so unless they changed it it will not.

Yeah, the rest of the changes are more of neutral changes to very small buffs, the biggest buffs were the Red Buff and Experience buffs.

LatetotheRace1 votes

Thing about warwick though is that he's a weaker Xin zhao. If you cancel his ult, he loses his strongest ability, and thus turns into a melee fighter.

Meep Man1 votes

Well, I mean, is it not the same for Xin? Use CC and he won't be doing too hot?

Decrit1 votes

Nah, you just have to disengage him once. Then he is pretty much helpless if he is not full tank. And if he is then he is still not that menace. Ww can at least try to proc E on someone. Rememberit does not increase mspeed while running toward someone, but everywhere!

LatetotheRace1 votes

I was referring to WW's ult, that's why most people play him after all. The ability to jump to someone and lock them down while simultaneously healing yourself a considerable amount. Xin on the other hand has the ability to jump on you repeatedly.

NeoBrawler1 votes

Is it sad that WW will be able to do more percent health damage with one item than malz with multiple items.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

Can't wait to try him out.

XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes

Yes, but Taric needs his 5th rework in 5 years before ww gets even sniffed at.

Gotodead1 votes

he is still countered by a single item. yea he might be too strong in lower elos but still the same shit in higher elo. Viable until their mid/adc get a qss and then you are a pile of shit.

Its good i wont have to farm sated forever though.

Meep Man1 votes

His R continues to deal damage after QSS. He isn't entirely countered. It's not like Zed to where your Ultimate no longer deals any damage.

Besides, Zed gets countered entirely by two (soon one) items and people still complain a ton about him.

rtbf484192821 votes

item 3091 and item 3153 are sooooo much better than Guinsoo in almost every situation.
Warwick pretty much got a lot weaker than pre 6.9. Warwick isn't the only champ with attack speed to proc with red buff. Spirit visage will help Warwick as much as other champs. Probably the only real buff would be the experience in jungle.

Now compare this to pre 6.9 sated devourer warwick. Sated devourer +wits end as only 2 dmg items. Sated dev(60 magic) + wits end( 50 magic) which procs twice every 2 hits is equivalent to 165 dmg + 220 dmg = 365 dmg every 2 hits with usually around more than 2.0 attack speed combined with warwick's basic attack dmg, his passive and the ferver of battle mastery(which stacks up to full with his ult), it would probably end somewhere around 600 -- 700 dmg every 2 hits at max level. That's comparable to tryndamere's full build dmg output only with two dmg items, and burst down carries so well combined with ult and q.

Now given that how warwick got hugely nerfed only because of his synergy with the devourer, Warwick is only a mediocre jungler now, if not one of the worst.

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