It doesn't feel fair that I can sink all my gold into being as tanky as I can and on top of getting ignore a huge chunk of my armor you're also punishing me for building health.
This item frustrates me. It's bad enough that armor penetration is so absurdly stupid, but anyone shouldn't be able to pick up a BoRK and completely invalidate most of my build if I can't do the same.
IcyPepper2 votesBotrk counters building health, and is countered by building armor.
It's 
and 
that tick me off. One is for champions who can already nuke my health low and escape, and the other is for champions who already have attack speed, damage, and critical chance up the butt.
Honestly, I think both of them need nerfs to 10% or 20%. Maybe 25% if they want to take it slow (remember what happened Kassadin, who was considered OP until... oh god).
Big Lincoln1 votesYou can build it with Last Whisper, and most tanks are pretty much fucked by then.
I hate those penetration items way too much. Void is a little more acceptable because most mages don't stack magic pen, but it's still infuriating to have such cheap items that negate far more expensive items.
IcyPepper2 votesLW should be waaaaay more expensive than it is. Taking 
into account, it should be... at least 3k gold. 2300 gold right now is just a slap in every tank's face.
IwfiKe3qjM1 votesI agree about reducing the %penetration idea since looking at some champions stats while spectating: Average Tank Health: 3000-4000 (since they also building Armor and MR) Average Tank Armor: 200-300 Average Tank MR: 150-200
LW with 35%Armor penetration usually almost worth as 70-105 Armor penetration (60-90 for 30% and 50-75 for 25%)
and Maximum amount of flat Armor penetration stack in current state is 50 for Jungler Warrior (10), Brutalizer (10), Youmuu (20), and Black Cleaver (10)
Void Staff with 35%Magic penetration usually almost worth as 52.5-70 Magic Penetration (45-60 for 30% and 37.5-50 for 25%)
and Maximum amount of flat Magic penetration stack in current state is 30 for Sorcerer Shoes (15) and either Haunting Guise (15) or Liandry (15) since those two can't stack
but that was against tank...
those who doesn't build tank usually only have 50-100 MR (including runes and masteries) because they don't gain MR per level so 17.5-35 Magic penetration (15-30 for 30% and 12.5-25 for 25%)
and their Armor usually between 100-150 so 35-52.5 Armor Penetration (30-45 for 30% and 25-37.5 for 25%)
maybe for LW just reduce the Armor penetration to 30% and raise the price to 2550 (or more price with less %Armor penetration) and for Void Staff reduce the Magic penetration to 30% and raise the price to 2395 (or more price with less %Magic penetration)
if those stayed at 35% LW should cost minimum 2750 and Void Staff should cost around 2440-2560 but that will result to high combine cost... (minimum 1515 for LW and between 1145-1265 for Void Staff)
SoundChaosDebug2 votesRemember league of brusers? I don't want to go back to that
Big Lincoln1 votesLast Whisper is still strong enough that you can withstand tanky enemies. But you shouldn't also get to shred HP on top of the huge crits that are already being put out, which hurts tanks more than it ever hurts bruisers
Hasztalan21 votesWell i want to back to league of bruisers. Much more fun and variety than this pew pew mode.
Also the problem with bork is the genius who after deleting madred changed the %magic into physical dmg rendering the counters useless as you can't stack as much armor to counter LW and thus the item combo (lw-bork) becomes the most cost efficent op bs thing in the universe.
LXII1 votesWhy do all tanks think they should be flat out unkillable? As an ad main I can tell you that even with lw a solid Garen, Voli, Shyvana, or even Ryze will obliterate me in a 1v1 almost every time. And as for BoRK, there are only a few ad carries that can actually build one and maximize it's effectiveness. If you're getting wrecked by ad carries then you're either bad, at a gold disadvantage (massive), or your own ad and ap carries aren't doing their job right.
Zahz1 votes[{quoted}](name=RYN Flux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s2fnwas4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-03-15T12:54:23.017+0000)
Why do all tanks think they should be flat out unkillable? As an ad main I can tell you that even with lw a solid Garen, Voli, Shyvana, or even Ryze will obliterate me in a 1v1 almost every time. And as for BoRK, there are only a few ad carries that can actually build one and maximize it's effectiveness. If you're getting wrecked by ad carries then you're either bad, at a gold disadvantage (massive), or your own ad and ap carries aren't doing their job right.
Well as a tank that is pretty much the goal is it not? Its actually very easy to make a tank shredder build in this game that just makes them a non issue. As an ad main you shouldnt lose those fights if you are kiting properly unless they catch you out of position and you cant get away. Yea some have gap closers and what not but in team fights you are behind the group and if you are off on your own without wards down its suicide anyway
LXII1 votesWell as a tank that is pretty much the goal is it not? Its actually very easy to make a tank shredder build in this game that just makes them a non issue. As an ad main you shouldnt lose those fights if you are kiting properly unless they catch you out of position and you cant get away. Yea some have gap closers and what not but in team fights you are behind the group and if you are off on your own without wards down its suicide anyway
Team fights aren't exactly what you expect them to be in low Elo. I'm lucky if I ever get a team that's actually concerned with keeping me alive.
Big Lincoln1 votesWhy does every AD carry think they should blow up someone who built for maximum defense in two more autos than the squishiest person on the team? Tanks have to build reactively; our items aren't universally effective like armor penetration and crits.
How are you not able to kite those three tanks, and two of them who don't even have hard CC? Only one of them has a (easily stopped) gap-closer and they all get obliterated by slows. At least argue using someone with an actual gap-closer as your talking points.
LXII1 votesYour whole argument is based on whether or not my team is helping me the way they should. How do you kite a Garen with 3 times your move speed? Especially hard after he silences and any escape you have is now gone. How do I "easily stop" Shyvana as an AD Carry? And where on earth am I gonna get a reliable meaningful slow on anyone other than Ashe? (also Garen can negate slows.. soooo) On the subject of guys with gap closers though we can talk J4, Shen, Rammus, Amumu, Maokai, etc. All absolute AD destroyers. I'm not saying tanks should get 1 shot, but in an even matchup it should at least be a close call and not just getting shredded by a tank while he retains more than 3/4 of his hp.
TomA3X1 votesDamage has to outscale resistances, or every tank would be near invulnerable and auto win because of their base damage.
Big Lincoln1 votesDamage already outscaled it before.
You don't need a counter for every aspect of defense.