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Mordekaiser's changes completely destroy his solo lane potential

Ulquiorra995··163 votes·7,041 views

First, his pushing power is non-existent with these changes. He will drop from one of the best waveclears in the game to one of the worst. Right now, Mordekaiser can clear with all three of his base spells. Post-changes, his W deals literally no damage, his Q is single target, and his E's damage is nerfed.

Fine, he can't push anymore. But Mordekaiser's strength always was brute damage and survivability in trades. Right? Too bad you only have 3 abilities in solo lane. Your W is, once again, useless. Oh, but you have your Q? Too bad it's single target now, so you can't ricochet it to your enemy off a minion. And considering that its damage is spread over 3 auto attacks and that they also NERFED HIS MOVESPEED (as he wasn't immobile enough) - good fucking luck ever using your Q on a competent enemy. But at least you still have your E, i mean it wasn't nerfed in a signif... Oh wait. It was.

Not to mention these changes do not suit his characters at all (except for a dragon ghost). Mordekaiser is a goddamn general of the shadow isles - hell, his name literally means "Murder Emperor". He's not someone who'd depend on a babysitter to feel useful.

Good job, Riot. You managed to completely destroy Mordekaiser's primary role in favor of a gimmicky ADC replacement - in an environment where ADCs will become more important than ever with across-the-board armor nerfs. But don't worry, feed the masses with "You can get a dragon ghost!" hype so everything will seem OK.

I propose the following changes at least: 1.) Leave his move speed as it is. He really does not need to be even slower. 2.) **Make his W at least deal half damage when he's alone. **Right now, only two champions have abilities useless without allies nearby: Soraka and Kalista. And that's because both would be complete cancer to deal with in solo lane. 3.) Completely ditch the hybrid scaling bullshit and unnerf his base damage. Haven't you learned anything? In this game, champions with hybrid scalings tend to be either unholy abominations or near useless.

-Signed, an extremely pissed off Mordekaiser main.

70 Comments

Crowe Stalker31 votes

This rework has quite a few problems honestly:

One: His Movement speed is getting nerfed. It's almost on the level of Anivia right now, and that's really stupid because aside from his W he has no gap closer. They want to cement the 'Kite him out' mentality, and are then sending him bot lane against people who outrange him and now he can't even walk in range of them. They will harass him to hell and back and there's nothing he can realistically do to stop them. Hell, KogMaw could kite him out the way you are nerfing him and that's saying something.

Two: He's AD or he's AP. Hybrid Builds have never been efficient because of the fact that they detract from both categories. If you are sending him 'As a niche replacement for your ADC or Marksman' then he needs to be AD but you have him scaling better off of AP (especially HIS NOW USELESS ULTIMATE, but I'll get to that)

Three: They are damaging his Shield Generation, a lot. I'd get it if it was like, 15% to minions and 30% to champions but 12.5% shield to minions is minuscule. Combine this with the E nerfs and he'll be out-harassed extremely easily because he needs to get in range of the champion to actually make shield but he can't do that because he has no movement speed to gap-close.

Four: Mace of Spades just sucks. I don't know who was smoking what, but the idea behind Mace of Spaces is 'if you stand still, I will wreck you' but no one in the right mind is going to sit there and take it unless they are CCed. Guess what you didn't give his kit?

Five: 'Harvester of Sorrow' for the most part, has been removed as a utility for anyone that's not a front liner. For anyone who is a front-liner, guess what? It's scaling off of Mordekaiser's AP which, if he's not building any, will be the equivalent of a niche to maybe doubled damage item 3068. I like that you can re-activate it to blow it up, but you are incentivized to learn exactly how long it lasts so you can do that by the half-second the spell expires because guess what? He relies on it to even get in the fight in the first place because of his garbage movement speed.

Six: Siphon of Destruction. Congratulations, you killed it, you literally killed an entire ability. It is not even somewhat efficient to level now because it has absolutely pathetic damage. hey Riot, you know why we leveled it first? To clear the minion wave. Not to harass, to clear and push the opponent against their tower, because that's what Mordekaiser does: He forces you to CS under turret by virtue of his very good waveclear. Now? You get it at level 4 (Not level 3, it's so garbage a skill now that leveling Q second at level 3 is more efficient.)

Seven: Children of the Grave. Let's talk about Mordekaiser's Ultimate: It's the core of his identity. More than his Passive, more than his Waveclear, more than anything, Mordekaiser is known for being able to '6v4' but he had the weakest level 6 engage of any top laner. A item 2003 negates the passive damage of your ultimate currently. It's damage is half up-front, the other half over ten seconds. Current damage is 24%/29%/32% of your maximum health. Now, that sounds like a lot, but it's also reliant on your item 3116/item 3151 combo to actually keep them in range and deal a lot of damage to tanks. These two items are essentially Core to him because he offers no Utility aside from Creeping Death on a squishy (to make it so he can protect them) or on a tank (so he can engage with them) It was also very Strategic. Do I melt the Tank so they can't protect their team? Do I melt their APC so I can get a massive buff to my AP values? Or do I kill the ADC for the increase to AD and giving us a Second Marksman?

You've managed to absolutely crush that. Now the Ghost has 10 AD (that's a item 1036 and no, it doesn't scale, so it's negligible at best) damage is now 20/25/30% of health (Hey, remember when your Ultimate did damage Initially? YEA, THAT WILL NO LONGER BE THE CASE) and damage scales off of AP (Aren't you supposed to be encouraging AD/Hybrid Mordekaiser?) Ulting the ADC is no longer stat-efficient because now their ghost offers you no stats (Ghost gives 30% of their AP and 25% Bonus Health, do you think any ADC has either of these stats?)

You have now ruined Top Mordekaiser, Nerfed Mid Mordekaiser, are trying to make him a Bruiser but are making him stat inefficient, all for... What, Dragon Control? Not even Baron, or Red, or Blue, all of which have three minute respawn timers (your ghost lasts 45 seconds at first rank and 70 at max, about the only true buff to Mordekaiser.) He can only ghost Dragon (which sucks after mid-game) or Players (Late Game) but his early game is so horrible he won't be able to scale into either.

ArkenStorm1 votes

i suppose that building item 3124 item 3146 item 3065 item 3158 item 3116 item 3151 instead of item 3116 item 3151 item 3158 item 3065 item 3152 item 3157 might be ok, but i'm totally with you. i hate these changes

Bârd1 votes

I tried him out, building item 3146 item 3078 item 3020 item 3116 item 3135 item 3089 Went ok

Rew7112 votes

It's not just that... I've tried him on the PBE and as a support, he's... fine I guess but even lacks there.

His passive is fine now.

His Q deals way less damage. I know what you're going to say, and that is it deals more on one person that the rest but if I look at the original, it deals an automatic 330 (+165% AD) (+66% AP) on one target while the rework allows a total of 195 (+299% AD) (+260% AP) after 3 hits.

His W does deal damage and is very useful but that's only when duo which is forced now. Solo Mordekaiser isn't operable anymore. Not unless the W worked solo.

His original versus his new E is a plain, flat out nerf.

If they really want to buff that Q, give it a range boost of 100/150/200/250/300 range.

If they really want this W to work, make it so he can use it on himself, alone.

If they hope for Mordekaiser to be on pare with other bot laners (support, ADC, or tank) he's going to need the damage moved up to at least 40/95/150/195/250.

stuartk112 votes

My main problem with this rework is simple. Why would you play him in the bot lane? He doesn't fit there, and these changes don't help him out there; they only force him there. He will have serious trouble CSing in lane (especially with the E nerfs and changes to his shield generation) and he will get chunked out quick with his lower HP, low HP regen and using his health to cast his abilities. His damage scaling is still less than that of an ADC, and he has low movement speed with a much shorter range. So why play him? To have a tankier champion? I thought that Top lane would be more suitable, or even jungle. Yes, he is horrible in the jungle, but it's a better fit than bot lane. There is no incentive or reason to pick him over a typical ADC, and he's not suited to be played there.

Matezoide6 votes

Dont forget the part where his Ult's range got nerfed to 650 range and he cant even use it if he has Dragon.

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

Don't forget that they also nerfed his Ult's damage. It went from 24/29/34% Max health to 20/25/30% max health. Is ult on live is already countered by a health potion early game, so they decide to make it even weaker. EVEN Tahm's Devour does more damage than Morde's ult, and that's a basic skill, and is on a much lower CD.

LatetotheRace2 votes

Morde's weakness has always been his immobility and short overall range, so yea. Riot says FU to all the previously good morde players.

Leafic1 votes

HONESTLY, who the heck aswants to play morde bot.... i mean that sounds boaring as heck. I guess u could look at it like u buffed his team fight?WRONG! thats only if u build TANK then ur e is the only thing thats gonna fill his shield becuz u will do no Dmg.... dargon ghoust priddy kewl i will give u that. but wait u need to be on the lower half of the map for that... and most mordes play top... so that is only good later when u r roaming.over all. u nerfed the LIVING BEJESUS out of him buffed his ult by %25 and and gave his e more utility but wait... no one playes morde for his utility. THEY PLAY HIM FOR HIS INSANE DMG. and u took it away. I apologize for yelling at u Rito and i like the darius rework but. ur smothering everything morde has ever stood for and plz figure out a different way to get done what u want on "Huedikaiser" i love u R'ito and i love ur game but sometimes u go too ham for the community's sake so plz tone it down. and give use our lovely morde back and his "jordans" (feet so he can actually move in any sorta situation when he doesn't have to get some where in the next millennium) item 3070 Mordekaiser item 3070

gaby1best4 votes

Learn to read.

his pushing power is non-existent with these changes

You can W ally minions -_-

Post-changes, his W deals literally no damage, his Q is single target, and his E's damage is nerfed. Fine, he can't push anymore. But Mordekaiser's strength always was brute damage and survivability in trades. Right? Too bad you only have 3 abilities in solo lane. Your W is, once again, useless.

Ability can be reactivated to instantly deal ~40% of the total DoT and heal Mordekaiser and his ally for the damage dealt (heal takes 3 units maximum; 33% heal to minions) Health cost removed.

But at least you still have your E, i mean it wasn't nerfed in a signif... Oh wait. It was.

His E got buffed. Let's get damage at rank 1: it's down from 70 to 35. That mans it deals 35 less damage than before. But it also scales with 0.6 total AD so at lvl 1 Morde has a base AD of 58(we're not even counting bonus AD here), so it adds 34.8 damage to E. So quite the same, but Morde can now buy AD items. Plus:

Cooldown from 6 >>>> 6/5.75/5.5/5.25/5 Now grants 15% of maximum shield on champion hits

NERFED HIS MOVESPEED

But look at other base stats changes:

  • (Nerf) MS 340 >>> 330
  • (Nerf) HP 555 >>> 525
  • (Buff) HP/lvl 73 >>> 80
  • (Buff) AD/lvl 3.5 >>> 5
  • (Buff) AS/lvl 2.6 >>> 3
  • (Buff) HP5 3.3 >>> 4
  • (Buff) HP5/lvl 0.3 >>> 0.55
  • (Buff) Range 125 >>> 200
  • Attack frame improved
  • Armor/lvl 2.7 >>> 3.0
  • Attack Frame improved, but no longer scales as well with Attack Speed (Attack Frame should feel more consistent across game time)

And you also said this:

He's not someone who'd depend on a babysitter to feel useful.

The same as Draven Graves KogMaw Lucian Varus Urgot Jinx Twitch. But they're played bot lane.

Here's my solution: go to school, read a few books, try to improve your logic and don't freak out about something you don't know all about. I'm sick and tired of these threads and you just make the whole community look bad.

jmaishere6 votes

{quoted}

Learn to read.

You can W ally minions -_- Fine, he can't push anymore. But Mordekaiser's strength always was brute damage and survivability in trades. Right? Too bad you only have 3 abilities in solo lane. Your W is, once again, useless.

Ability can be reactivated to instantly deal ~40% of the total DoT and heal Mordekaiser and his ally for the damage dealt (heal takes 3 units maximum; 33% heal to minions) Health cost removed.

His E got buffed. Let's get damage at rank 1: it's down from 70 to 35. That mans it deals 35 less damage than before. But it also scales with 0.6 total AD so at lvl 1 Morde has a base AD of 58(we're not even counting bonus AD here), so it adds 34.8 damage to E. So quite the same, but Morde can now buy AD items. Plus:

Cooldown from 6 >>>> 6/5.75/5.5/5.25/5 Now grants 15% of maximum shield on champion hits

But look at other base stats changes:

  • (Nerf) MS 340 >>> 330
  • (Nerf) HP 555 >>> 525
  • (Buff) HP/lvl 73 >>> 80
  • (Buff) AD/lvl 3.5 >>> 5
  • (Buff) AS/lvl 2.6 >>> 3
  • (Buff) HP5 3.3 >>> 4
  • (Buff) HP5/lvl 0.3 >>> 0.55
  • (Buff) Range 125 >>> 200
  • Attack frame improved
  • Armor/lvl 2.7 >>> 3.0
  • Attack Frame improved, but no longer scales as well with Attack Speed (Attack Frame should feel more consistent across game time)

And you also said this:

The same as Draven Graves KogMaw Lucian Varus Urgot Jinx Twitch. But they're played bot lane.

Here's my solution: go to school, read a few books, try to improve your logic and don't freak out about something you don't know all about. I'm sick and tired of these threads and you just make the whole community look bad.

you clearly don't play morde, and in the pbe thread on Morde, CertainlyT has already stated w only can be cast on an allied CHAMPION. the nerf on his move speed is significant...he has no cc or speed boosts unless you count the gimmick on his w, which mean he has zero chasing potential to deal any damage. no, the E is definitely a nerf. If they want him to build hybrid, he's not going to have good scalings on ad and ap, which gives him like no damage at all, his early game is going to be trash, which means no gold for late game.

gaby1best1 votes

Check new Q before saying he'll have no damage.

jmaishere3 votes

{quoted}

Check new Q before saying he'll have no damage.

Yeah, tell me how a champ with no gap closers, or cc is going to walk up to the enemy squishy and auto attack them 3 times.

Ulquiorra99526 votes

As someone who plays Mordekaiser since Season 1, I think I can safely say I know a lot about Mordekaiser.

1.) You can't W minions. Please, inform yourself first. You don't need to play Mordekaiser to state your opinion, but how can I take it seriously if you miss your facts? And the damage on W reactivation is miserable.

2.) You can't just look at his E and say "that's a buff". You need to look at bigger picture. -First, his E will be weaker unless he buys AD. And his scalings are all over the place with changes. Your abilities space of AP or AP, your shield scales of HP and you need the resistances you lost from your W. And the biggest problem - his E is his only reliable source of damage. W and Q both require Mordekaiser to be in melee range for prolonged periods of time. Good luck with that in League of CC and Mobility.

3.) His move speed. Again, look at bigger picture. Sure, a but of move speed doesn't look like much. But for Mordekaiser, it is. He has no mobility or CC. One hard CC, hell, one SLOW comes flying his way and he isn't reaching his target. Those fancy AD and AS buffs mean nothing when he can't get into position to use them.

And of course I'm freaking out. They are destroying one of my years long favourites. I'm sure you'd freak out if your main was destroyed. And i'll be damned if my voice, as insignificant as it is, is not heard.

gaby1best3 votes

Ok, sorry about the w mistake, I've played a few matches with Morde when he was free to play and I remembered I could w minions. I was wrong, my bad. But why don't you wait to actually play a match with the updated Morde? Play him with a support, bot lane. I don't get the hate for that, I would love to get my mid-laners and go bot to be protected by a support. Also, I believe Q keeps its extra range(200 range) and with the base 200 attack range it will turn into 400 total range? Also, he's got AD scaling on both Q and E. So why not buy AD? item 3146 should already be core on him, add item 3139 item 3022 or item 3074 and I believe he will deal pretty good damage. It's worth noting that Morde is meant to become a bruiser with the new changes so his build path will be affected. Maybe he won't even be an AP bruiser, he'll only buy AP as a secondary stat.

Ulquiorra9957 votes

Actually, bonus range isn't mentioned in new Q tooltip, so I assume it's gone. Anyway, I'm not against the change. I'm all for it, as long as the end result is good. Yes, I will try him out when he comes out, but with long experience in playing Mordekaiser and the game in general... well, things don't look too bright.

And I don't hate him going botlane with a support. Actually I love the idea. Problem arises that he won't be viable solo lane, and probably won't be viable even in duo lane. But he can be changed still.

And after all, I think most of new Mordekaiser's problems could be summed into this: his damage is too situational. Q requires 3 melee hits, and W requires two champions staying in melee range for quite a duration. Even out Q damage a bit, maybe add AoE increasing with each hit (like first it single target > X AoE > 2X AoE, reduce splash damage if needed). ...that, and, with nerfed shield and much less ability to generate it with Q and W will make him an easy prey for harassment. Empower his shield. Make him generate it quicker, that's a must if he's to survive the botlane. Make W deal, say, 50% or 66% damage when Mordekaiser is alone. For the love of god, bring back resists and/or level scaling shield - his scalings are too spread right now. Hell, add slight AD scaling to W and possibly R to open up a full AD build. There are many possibilities here. And there's absolutely no reason to make solo lane Morde unviable. Why shouldn't a champ be able to do multiple things? Lee is a great jungler, good mid and top and can work as a support. Irelia too. Annie, Morgana and Zyra can go support, mid and even top. Quinn is arguably a better toplaner than she is an ADC? Sion, another reworked champion is good toplaner and junglier, and arguably can support. Why should Morde be confined to a single gimmicky lane?

Anyway, item 3146 will be a must rush. Either item 3022 or item 3116 for stickiness will be an absolute must too depending on what you build for since he has this weird dual scaling, and he gets HP for his shield. I'm seeing AP as primary stat myself tho because 2 abilities scale of AD and all 4 off AP and all of them benefitting from Mpen instead of ARpen. I actually like Mordekaiser more as a bruiser than a full-out mage. It fits him way better.

Scorpoison1 votes

To be fair the new Morde as jungle works decently well, and if he gets dragon to have as a ghost, it does a good portion of damage and scales with its health, the damage on its auto attack is aoe and bringing it to baron massively helps out for early captures. Yes his movement speed got lowered but since q is better to level first than e, Morde can afford to buy things such as trinity force or titanic hydra. I only had 200~ AD and 60~ AP and I was doing around 1k damage on the last hit of the chain. Yes its an issue but you can get things like rylais or frost mallet. E is now more of a defensive spell than offensive, which yea is kinda sucky but it does give you a good amount of shield. While it does suck that they removed some of his strengths as a top laner, I think its interesting that they are trying to push the meta and open up ideas for more interesting gameplay. Honestly when I was playing I didnt have that much of an issue with the lowered movement speed because I got an early Ninja Tabi and followed that up with Phage. Overall the changes are odd but I think that it doesnt ruin Mordekaiser it just shifts him into a different state.

Bijorn2 votes

{quoted}

Ok, sorry about the w mistake, I've played a few matches with Morde when he was free to play and I remembered I could w minions. I was wrong, my bad. But why don't you wait to actually play a match with the updated Morde? Play him with a support, bot lane. I don't get the hate for that, I would love to get my mid-laners and go bot to be protected by a support. Also, I believe Q keeps its extra range(200 range) and with the base 200 attack range it will turn into 400 total range? Also, he's got AD scaling on both Q and E. So why not buy AD? item 3146 should already be core on him, add item 3139 item 3022 or item 3074 and I believe he will deal pretty good damage. It's worth noting that Morde is meant to become a bruiser with the new changes so his build path will be affected. Maybe he won't even be an AP bruiser, he'll only buy AP as a secondary stat.

You could W minions in the past (aka live version) but in this new kit you are not able to. His Q also does not have the extra 200 range on it anymore in the new kit, it is just an empowered AA.

I understand what you are saying when it comes to the items. But..what would the point be on having the AP ratios then? If he just built AD like you suggested (besides the one AP item gunblade) his E will still be dealing less damage than it used to. Mord never really had great scalings, but he had decent base stats.

The issue a lot of people are having, happen to be ones that actually play Mord. As you stated you only played him while he was free, so that shows you do not really understand his strengths/weaknesses as well as someone else. I don't either, but I have played him quite a bit for about 2 1/2 seasons so I know a bit about him. The biggest issue that I feel has been addressed, but not as strongly as other things, is that bot lane is a ranged lane. How is Mord supposed to stay in lane when he will be constantly poked out within two waves? Yes he has his shield but it is negligible early game, especially if there are two enemies attacking you. The shield generation on minions has been hit as well, so unless Mord somehow gets to melee range of the enemies his shield is almost worthless.

Losing resistances on his W just makes him squishier forcing him to buy items with said resistances or change his runes. He has always been easily kitable, with this MS nerf it will be that much easier to kite him.

  1. He is outranged
  2. Easily kited
  3. Nerfed damage via base stats (you need to hit three separate empowered Q AA's to get said damage off, which won't be possible due to issues 1 and 2)
  4. Part of his kit is unusable if you are alone (supports roam). You may say that Kalista has part of her kit that is unusable when her support roams, but at least she can kite.

This just doesnt seem to help any of the problems Mord originally faced, just adds more to it and it is upsetting. I am sure that Mord mains will try this out but...I honestly do not see many of the actual Mord players to like this.

I am all for changing up the meta and whatnot (I play Brand supp a lot) but this...it just makes an already niche picked champion into something that will hardly ever work.

gaby1best1 votes

I think the kite part is gone mid game. I've seen a rioter saying he actually wanted to give Morde less MS, because people on the PBe rushed item 3044 into item 3078 then item 2053 later buying a item 3116 , so there is little escape from that.

So yes, Morde will no longer be a mage, he will be a bruiser(that's why he got included in the 'Juggernaut pack') that will deal shittons of damage while being tanky - if you let him do that. If I was to guess, I'd say item 3078 item 3146 item 3116 and [the new defensive item that gives HP and %base AD + a shield passive] will be core on new Morde, and maybe item 3074 too.

stuartk112 votes

{quoted}

I think the kite part is gone mid game. I've seen a rioter saying he actually wanted to give Morde less MS, because people on the PBe rushed item 3044 into item 3078 then item 2053 later buying a item 3116 , so there is little escape from that.

So yes, Morde will no longer be a mage, he will be a bruiser(that's why he got included in the 'Juggernaut pack') that will deal shittons of damage while being tanky - if you let him do that. If I was to guess, I'd say item 3078 item 3146 item 3116 and [the new defensive item that gives HP and %base AD + a shield passive] will be core on new Morde, and maybe item 3074 too.

Spending 6700 gold so that you can do your job isn't the most effective, but not a bad idea in its current state. I've heard people using Frozen Mallet to stick aswell, but don't have experience to say. My problem is the horrendous laning phase he will have. Playing an ADC that has no potential to trade when the opponent Autos you, with lower early game damage, lower base HP and lower base movement speed make for a recipe for disaster. Even some of the much stronger melee range early game champions (such as Xin Xias) are a terrible choice. I see potential for it to be good, and not many changes need to be made to do so, but I have my doubts that CertainlyT, of all people, would be able to design such changes to a champion.

Bârd1 votes

You can W minions on live, but they changed it to a different spell on beta.

Voidgolem4 votes

...I'm still not clear on why people are so adamantly against using him in a duo lane.

Castozor7 votes

Probably because people who like to play a lot of Mordekaiser already, like me, have always been playing him as a solo laner, some funky games aside. And not only are they more or less forcing him into duo bot, they are also killing his solo lane potential so that even the old mains can't play him like they have been playing him for a long time. I personally have nothing against making some weird bot lane bruiser thing but why did they have to destroy the old Mordekaiser for this garbage instead of just making a new champ?

Arcane Azmadi2 votes

[deleted]

Voidgolem2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcane Azmadi,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s1JauvO3,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2015-08-06T01:18:21.178+0000)

Probably because you're not very smart.

Because it's really obviously an incredibly fucking stupid idea with absolutely no merit whatsoever.

Sorry that you're bad, bro. Some people can work around changes instead of screaming that the world's ending, though :|

kagepaladin3 votes

i agree with this fully. its like theyre trying to make him into another irelia.

Ulquiorra9954 votes

More of an opposite Irelia actually. Because Irelia still can go into any lane (I've tried support Irelia. Fun as hell and can work), while Mordekaiser will be unable to go to any lane if this goes through.

Joke aside, changes are terrible in almost every aspect.

Mal the Red3 votes

If you read the E, it gets a TOTAL AD scaling too. So the damage that you think you're missing with it you really aren't.

Ulquiorra9953 votes

But in exchange for that total AD scaling he lost 105 (!) base damage. And even considering Mordekaiser's base AD new damage never catches up. Problem becomes even bigger now that it's Morde's only reliable damaging ability, and in order for it to be effective you have to implement some AD into your build. And as I said, hybrid builds in this game tend to be either OP or useless. No middle ground.

gaby1best1 votes

item 3146

ArkenStorm1 votes

maybe rageblade too, but idk. overall i'm not a fan of the changes.

gaby1best1 votes

Actually I've heard his build will be bruiser-oriented and won't be focused on AP anymore. So I guess the items could vary from item 3074 to item 3139 and item 3156.

Chicken4dinner2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mal the Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s1JauvO3,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-08-05T10:44:51.076+0000)

If you read the E, it gets a TOTAL AD scaling too. So the damage that you think you're missing with it you really aren't.

some people only look at what they want to read

Orangesilk2 votes

I think the changes are brilliant.

I don't care about general viability, that's for chumps. But he opens up fantastic possibilities regarding teamcomps in premade teams, he widens up the game, if anything it makes me sad he's the -only- champion who got the awesome treatment so it won't shift the meta entirely, but it's fun.

He creates insane botlane dominance by having huge level advantage, and with a partner next to him, landing him the CC he needs to unleash the damage in his kit makes him one of the most terrifying botlaners ever, coupled with his fun dragon ghost (Perfect for that, gank bot, get double kill, get dragon, push down botlane tower routine, it's a scarily strong play).

But muh ADC?. This will favor some safe ADC picks duking it out in the solo lanes (AD Tristana mid saw play during last season, it might just be viable with Morde bot. Vayne top has always been stupid, and now more so.) But WAIT. What if we turn that brutal botlane dominance... into brutal midlane dominance?, Morde + support in the midlane, starving out the enemy midlaner, while we leave some hyper-safe ADC with strong waveclearing to hide behind his turret in the botlane (Sivir, Caitlyn).

This opens up SO MANY POSSIBILITIES. Different power spikes for the usual carries in different circumstances, and overall makes the game more fun.

This kinda sucks for the Morde mains who have lost reliability with Morde (He now only works if the team works around his pick and knows what's going on, so if you don't have 4 friends, you don't get to play your champion) But, whatever, mains will always cry for the changes, it sucks to be a Kass main these days, and who the hell was a Morde main anyways?.

Ulquiorra9958 votes

"General viability" is very important. Top tier =/= viable. I'm a guy who often plays things like Jungle Jinx, full AP Varus or ADC Ahri. And I'm all for versatility. But this? This is doomed to fail.

1.) Mordekaiser won't be viable in solo lanes. 2.) Mordekaiser is an immobile, CC-less champion who needs to get in melee range and stay there for prolonged period of time to do damage. And being like that he is meant to go in lane dominated by range, peel and mobility. This ain't going to work. I'd even dare to say current Mordekaiser is better botlaner than this new version, because at least he can wave clear and output some ranged/AoE damage.

It does not open many possibilities. It closes any possibilities for Morde players. These changes still need heavy work in order for Mordekaiser to remain useful. I'm all up for changes - as long as they are good, reasonable changes. These aren't either.

Orangesilk4 votes

He's extremely support reliant in his ability to stick to his targets (It's not for an extremely long time either, he needs to hit his Q three times and his enemy laner is out of the lane or dead) He's far from a decent solo queue pick, he's virtually unplayable without a microphone link to your support.

However, the kind of interesting situations he can pull off with a coordinated support is amazing, if he manages to kick his enemy laner out of the lane, the snowball is going to be something awful, since the level disparity will be ridiculous. He's one Blitz hook, Nami bubble, Thresh hook away from killing or maiming his target, and from then on?, we're looking at 2-3 levels advantage.

It'll be hard to play, easy to read, and force the whole team to be communicated and working on the same way, but if it works, it'll be ridiculous. They turned a champion who was never played, close to unviability, mainly played by some misplaced sense of nostalgia and turned him into one of the most interesting 5v5 champions to ever exist, that's exciting at least.

3TWarrior4 votes

there have actually been quite a few mordekaiser mains posted on the forums and he is fun to play because he is an actual threat that doesn't die instantly...now...without an actual way to test him, his kit sounds like it's been broken, just like gangplank's

gangplank now has no reliable way to stay in lane(his oranges heal devastatingly reduced amounts...for instance, level 1 reduced from 80 to 30 (+15% of damage taken...at level 2 with 800 hp, if you've taken 799 damage, that comes to 149.85 or 150, sure, that's a large increase for a steroid heal, but, if you are that low in top lane, you are also going to be ignited, reducing the heal to 70...so you may live and be annoying, but it's honestly not the same

compare taking 400 damage to that, now 90 heal, so I suppose it's still an improvement, but with gangplank, you want all of your health at all times so you can continue to harass, otherwise you're going to be thrown out of lane

let's take that to 200 damage, the likely poke scenario, that comes to a 60 heal, so a net take of 140...if you take the one poke scenario, you typically heal all of the damage

Orangesilk2 votes

Yeah, yeah, when these reworks hit everyone is a main. I remember the "Cass mains" throwing a hissy fit over her last rework, when the one guy whom I respect as a Cass main (King Cobra) pretty much said "This will be hard to adapt to but it has potential".

GPs rework was a weird thing, but I'm sure, much like Kalista and Azir, it'll take a lot of testing and playing for someone to find the optimal way to play it and break it.

Scorpoison1 votes

Honestly I think GP's rework was amazing.Yea his oranges got nerfed but his trading potential with the new E which does bonus damage to champions ignores armor and deals the attacks damage (meaning you can q the barrel with a crit and sheen proc), so oranges isnt something you need to rely on. If you are really that insistent on staying at 100% health just get a crystalline flask and three health pots and if you aren't winning trades on that then I dont know what to tell you.

junglerboy161 votes

Yeah, the changes suck, but they are also designed to gut his solo-laning, so I don't understand why everyone's so surprised that he seems like he'll be weak solo.

JedenVojak3 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, the changes suck, but they are also designed to gut his solo-laning, so I don't understand why everyone's so surprised that he seems like he'll be weak solo.

Because Mordekaiser is not supposed to be a bitch champion, he's supposed to be a 1v5 badass.

junglerboy161 votes

Oh, I know that and totally agree that the changes pretty much suck in every way, but I'm saying everyone saw the reveal where it said "we're trying out these crazy ideas to make Morde a duo laner", and afterwards everyone was surprised that he seemed unviable solo with the new changes, even when Riot said clearly that he wouldn't be before the full changes were revealed.

JedenVojak1 votes

But maybe if I close my eyes and wish hard enough, I'll wake up and will all be a bad dream right?

Right?

;_;

junglerboy161 votes

I don't know about you, but my top stopped spinning a couple days ago...

I think this is the real world.

But is it ypur real world?

JedenVojak1 votes

Now that I think about it...

Trying all of his damage to his Q requiring multiple hits, then lowering his attack speed to make multiple hits take longer, then lowering his movement speed to make it impossible to keep up with an opponent while performing multiple hits.

It's nerfs within nerfs within nerfs

NERFCEPTION!

junglerboy161 votes

Now if only lanes were long hallways that defied the laws of Physics, Morde would be all set!

Harkensong21 votes

dude o.o did you even read about his aa range increase and the RIDICULOUS buff to his q o.o who the hell needs an ulti or e for damage XD like seriously o.o how many does it take to not read patch notes o.o

Vhalthoria2 votes

{quoted}

dude o.o did you even read about his aa range increase and the RIDICULOUS buff to his q o.o who the hell needs an ulti or e for damage XD like seriously o.o how many does it take to not read patch notes o.o

You should play the current Morde a lot more. You obviously know shit about the champion and how bad this update is trashing him.

The current Morde is far superior in every aspect to this full scale downgrade version of him.

Since, you read the patch and this is a thread regarding his solo lane capability being destroyed for good. You know his movement speed was nerfed into oblivion? You know what that means, right? it means you wont even be able to land the third Q on your target by yourself.

Trying to land your third Q means overcomitting and hence will get you hurt badly while you try to itemize to deal with your miserable base stats.

Now open the door, go out and take some breath. You definitely need a break from logic.

Harkensong21 votes

apparently you know nothing about aa range o.o the increase means you won't have to commit anything to land a q o.o morde is now an amazing supp XD and jungler o. o once you actually get to lvl 30/make it to gold XD or even SILVER XD !!!! Then you can try to explain logic to a player who has been playing since S2 o.o seriously XD i won't even bother trying explain to you why as that you have yet to even make it ranked and thus don't have the knowledge to even comprehend the information i would be feeding you. After my thousands of hours of game-play over 6 accounts o.o i can tell you that this really is one of the biggest buffs in the history of the game XD even bigger than teemo(whom i now spam every game every role XD) but in any case :P good luck with your climb to 30, and then out of bronze/silver :D i wish you the best of luck. If you need a coach/have the time to debate all the patch changes? feel free to add me :P when i'm not coaching i also shout-cast :P i will be going over the patch notes in a day or two (either day before they go live or the day they go live)

Vhalthoria2 votes

{quoted}

apparently you know nothing about aa range o.o the increase means you won't have to commit anything to land a q o.o morde is now an amazing supp XD and jungler o. o once you actually get to lvl 30/make it to gold XD or even SILVER XD !!!! Then you can try to explain logic to a player who has been playing since S2 o.o seriously XD i won't even bother trying explain to you why as that you have yet to even make it ranked and thus don't have the knowledge to even comprehend the information i would be feeding you. After my thousands of hours of game-play over 6 accounts o.o i can tell you that this really is one of the biggest buffs in the history of the game XD even bigger than teemo(whom i now spam every game every role XD) but in any case :P good luck with your climb to 30, and then out of bronze/silver :D i wish you the best of luck. If you need a coach/have the time to debate all the patch changes? feel free to add me :P when i'm not coaching i also shout-cast :P i will be going over the patch notes in a day or two (either day before they go live or the day they go live)

Oh mighty veteran player. You fail to realize this is my NA smurf account and the one I use to post in the forums! Plot twist, I'm actually a Platinum V player who happen to main Morde since ever, You obviously don't know nothing about Morde and should stop trying to be "smart" in the subject.

200 AA range is irrelevant in a lane where everything has 450+ ranged and will outrange and outdamage you. You will still have to overcommit to landing those hits and getting into harms way while let's say, Vayne, the ADC with the shortest range in the game can still outrange and outdamage you without having to go in up close.

Lastly, please try to type proper paragraphs next time. You know, all this looks messy and unappealing to read.

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