Riot, you know that Zed uses ENERGY, right?

Ulquiorra995·Jan 29, 2015·158 votes·9,135 views

Because his "healthy" pattern of "poking from a distance and waiting for the moment to strike is layered with counterplay and complexity."

Due to him basically being resourceless in lane "complexity" boils down to "press Q in general direction of enemy every 6 seconds". And "counterplay" involves "rush Zhonyas or die". Which is real fair, considering you forfeit your mana regeneration item, making an even bigger gap between you and Zed's maleness wave clear/poke.

Good job Riot, protecting your LC$BIGPLAYS champions. Can't have them actually having weaknesess. But god forbid someone like Urgot or Sona starts seeing play.

106 Comments

Kowe The EwokJan 29, 201549 votes

Yea. I agree. It's hilarious how his Q's costs are 55 (CD 6s) while he regenerates 60 energy in the same time. He can spamm it infinitely, I seriously don't get how they don't consider this broken. Q has a long range (900!) high damage, is AoE and passes through units.

I mean seriously, why are there even energy regeneration runes?

Ow - an APler uses Mreg runes? Sorry but you still don't get to spamm your primary ability on cooldown, even if you buy 2 additional items! WHAT? YOU WANT ZED TO USE ENERGY RUNES? HE WOULD BE UP IF HE ACTUALLY HAD TO USE ACTUALLY ADEPT HIS RUNEBUILD TO HIS PLAYSTYLE. /sarcasm

Seriously.

NutshellJan 29, 201522 votes

Zed might as well be a cooldowns champ. Unless you're spamming your abilities every time its up you're not gonna run out of energy.

AMYS GRAVEJan 29, 201510 votes

if zed hits his abilities he can sustain his energy for ~1:45 using his w on cd and his qe combo on the 6 sec cd. just FYI.

FubbyJan 31, 20151 votes

Except thats just not true. I have to question if you have ever played zed. He goes out of energy all the time. Why do you think so many junglers in the LCS donate the blues to him?

J3 e c k e t tJan 30, 20154 votes

Zed's q does a lot less damage if you stand behind a minion, and besides what champs do you play?

ninjacapoJan 30, 20156 votes

minus the fact that he can throw 2 at you every 6 seconds

AMYS GRAVEJan 30, 20152 votes

he needs his shadow to throw both, his shadow cd is 14 seconds.

ElderTadpoleJan 30, 20152 votes

But here's the thing: By late game anyone with mana has enough mana to spam for much longer than any champ with energy can.

Moe Moe KyuunJan 29, 201521 votes

He wouldn't be so bad if his waveclear wasn't god like. It makes him able to roam, get a kill then come back to lane without missing out on cs that a lot of other mids have to deal with. Plus I don't like how he doesn't exactly have a weak point in the game. early game its not like with akali you can shut down or keep pushing to tower because her last hitting isnt all great. Even katarina having a real weak early game.

kunkudunkJan 29, 201510 votes

Exactly. You can't shut zed down cause he farms with aoe ranged abilties and once you get to team fights his ult is both his initiation and his escape. Actually stopping him at any point in the game doesn't happen. Your only option is to spam the items that counter his ult which half the time he doesn't need anyway to kill his primary targets. I wouldn't mind him if it weren't for the fact that despite his high skill kit, a monkey can play him since he is so safe.

Vegas DadJan 29, 201515 votes

Rushing zhonyas isnt even counter play, it is itemization strategy last i checked zed can kill you just fine without his ult, just most are so used to warping back to safety across the map they dont bother to stick around to auto, herr derr i pressed my 3 buttons i got a kill.

JØJłJan 29, 20159 votes

meanwhile urgot op

ZedexJan 29, 20156 votes

That "god forbid Urgot and Sona don't see play" argument is so fucking cringe worthy. Sona is a faceroll point and click mess , and urgot is honestly the worst champion he league next to old sion. He has no identity.

Zed has an identity and HAS a lot of hard counters and item counters. Don't come here just because you're mad they didn't gut a champion with a healthy playstyle.

RaptameiJan 29, 201515 votes

{quoted}

That "god forbid Urgot and Sona don't see play" argument is so fucking cringe worthy. Sona is a faceroll point and click mess , and urgot is honestly the worst champion he league next to old sion. He has no identity.

Then they should rework them? That's their job?

Tannhäuser GateJan 29, 20154 votes

That award goes to poppy

FeeeshJan 29, 20151 votes

Poppy is so good though.

Tannhäuser GateJan 29, 20152 votes

That is aside the point that she has no clear theme and has massive issues

CIit YeastwoodJan 29, 20156 votes

Why do you nerds constantly ignore what Riot says and just keep crying and whining?

Zed, fundamentally, is one of the best designed and most balanced (kit) assassins there are.

This, however, does not mean his numbers, scaling, EVERYTHING ELSE is balanced. They acknowledged this, and they are already pushing out nerfs to stop some of the major complaints, but for some reason this isn't good enough for you.

FeeeshJan 29, 201519 votes

That's cool. Maybe people are just tired of feeling underpowered by comparison. Zed is the strongest assassin in the game right now, and it's frustrating to see him held high while other champions that aren't nearly as toxic get nerfed into the ground. If Zed is the shining example that all champions should be, when are the buffs coming to everyone else?

KidKaiserJan 30, 20156 votes

but they nerfed his AtkSpd so he can't [overkill] you faster.

Sypher The PoroJan 29, 20155 votes

The problem with Zed is most middle champions are either AP Casters, AKA squishy ability spammers, or other assassins, again squishy. Picking someone like Riven mid is extremely rare, so his actual counters are usually in other lanes and unless you can convince your teammate to switch lanes, your stuck with trying to not die to Zed.

HeyIinJan 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The problem with Zed is most middle champions are either AP Casters, AKA squishy ability spammers, or other assassins, again squishy. Picking someone like Riven mid is extremely rare, so his actual counters are usually in other lanes and unless you can convince your teammate to switch lanes, your stuck with trying to not die to Zed.

Lissandra has no issues going against Zed unless the player is just outright better than you, I've had terrible experiences while playing zed against a Heimy, Been fucked up by a Viktor once or twice, and Yasuo is a skill matchup. And last but not least, You can get put in your place if you're against a TF that knows anything about the game.

All in all he's not terrible, and almost everything the first commenter that's below the threshold says, at the time of writing this I can't think of anything that's wrong with what he mentioned. I always tell people rule #1 for going against the shadow man with jukes for years, DODGE his Q. Do that, and you should be okay to get out of lane and roam or shitstomp him because you have farm, and items, and CC and the most he has is a slow.

Sypher The PoroJan 30, 20153 votes

The biggest thing there is he gets farm too, and rather well with his passive. I think a great way to nerf Zed but still keep his core gameplay, would be to remove the ability for his passive to proc on minions or neutral monsters. This would make his farm a crap ton harder, but he still retains the ability to do stupid amounts of damage to champions.

Also, everyone hates the donger. Doesn't matter who you are.

d3gDeeJan 29, 20155 votes

Why don't they just make him do less damage against minions and then revert the attack speed nerf? That would've probably fixed just about everyone's problems with him in lane.

JC DarkOmenJan 29, 20154 votes

i agree. God does forbid Urgot sees play. I think that's in Deuteronomy

jokes aside, why did you say Sona (a supp) and Urgot (a top/adc)? zed has nothing to do with them

and i'm ok with him being a lane bully. this is a role in every lane, whether top ( Darius Renekton ), mid ( Zed Talon ), bot ( Caitlyn Lulu Corki Zilean ) or even jung (the really good gankers, too many to list). What's unfair about zed is that once you're out of lane, he has insane wave clear and can kill one turret from full health and take your next one down to half health before you get back into lane because of his passive.

Terra BoomaJan 29, 201512 votes

Wait, hold on a second

Talon's a lane bully? Since when? Last time I checked he attented the Akali School of Pre-6 Oh god please don't murder me.

and Corki's early game isn't overbearing, if anything, MF is the best bully down bot.

PlaguedWingsJan 29, 20155 votes

Draven, Lucian and Graves are by far the best bullies for bot lane because of their insane damage that just doesn't stop coming at any point in game.

QuortJan 30, 20154 votes

Draven is the scariest in my opinion... those Spinning Axes hurt! (thank goodness for items like Thornmail, Zhonya's Hourglass, and Frozen Heart)! :3

PlaguedWingsJan 31, 20151 votes

I absolutely adore Draven, ever since his release I've played him nonstop. I do agree, he's the scariest adc there is, and he's so very underrated. He sees pro play very rarely, and high elo play even less. Saddens me, he can get ahead and carry all by himself, too.

Brenticus12Jan 30, 20152 votes

Lucian isn't really that much of a bully imo.. Yeah his mid game is pretty damn good and his early is decent but not to the levels of Draven and Graves.

ninjacapoJan 30, 20154 votes

this^ talon is kinda trash pre-6. he's a weird assassin that gets strong in the mid game

PlaguedWingsJan 29, 20154 votes

Zed does have a counter. Pick Vlad into Zed, and you can win every time. You can safely poke him, out wave clear him with your E, and if he tries to all in you, you can just pool underneath his ult. No Zhonyas needed, no mana regen needed, you just need a WotA and you win.

But, aside from the very few champs that can actually stand up to Zed, I agree completely. It's absurd how strong he his. With a champ that has such potential to out play, and scales so well with skill, he's too easy to use with a high reward for just mashing your Q until they're low enough to get the free crit on them from your passive.

Only Play DariusJan 29, 20157 votes

But vlad is also manaless, the main problem is that mana champions usually dont stand a chance against zed in lane

xNitoriJan 30, 20155 votes

You don't pick mana champions in a season where mana regen is gutted. I don't necessarily agree with this, but this is Riot at its finest, so adapt ._.

PlaguedWingsJan 31, 20151 votes

Right, and like I said, there's very few champs that can stand a chance against Zed. Talon, Vlad, Kat, Akali to name a few.

krawkawJan 30, 20159 votes

Lissandra is the only mana-using champ that I have successfully "countered" Zed with. One champion. One. However I have heard that malz hurts him, still. Two mana champs that can be proficient against him unless the Zed is a moron. That is toxic

The SwedeJan 30, 20153 votes

WHERE IS Heimerdinger IN ALL OF THS RITO???

AMYS GRAVEJan 30, 20151 votes

Liss can poke evenly with zed, but will run oom pretty quickly. Her ult can be used like Zhonyas but that's not winning that's just not losing. Don't take me wrong i'm sure you crushed Zed in your game, but i think taking Liss as a counter to Zed will probably go even in the average case.

Kitten of EvilJan 31, 20151 votes

Yeah, Malz is a good pick against him. Your E can push just as hard as he can (which, again, why can an assassin push as hard as Malzahar?), and the moment he ults you, you can ult him back.

SchteltzerJan 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lissandra is the only mana-using champ that I have successfully "countered" Zed with. One champion. One. However I have heard that malz hurts him, still. Two mana champs that can be proficient against him unless the Zed is a moron. That is toxic

theres alot more and its your own mistake if you cant beat him

ninjacapoJan 30, 20153 votes

the problem is vlad is a toplaner. zed, on release, was a toplaner too so that matchup worked perfectly. that was, until people realized that you could poke forever and zone like a bitch with zed, so why not play him in the midlane? that's where akali and katarina work!

Bobikus HarrikusJan 29, 20154 votes

I find is interesting how many people seem to jump on the "nerf" bandwagon. Everyone seems to agree on a few champions that either need small tweaks or are generally balanced and then they just spam complaints about how poorly this game is balance. Then, they refuse to look at both sides of the argument because they won't let themselves be proven wrong. An example of this is how people get so worked up about energy champions. yet there are resource-less champions like Gnar who can be just as much of a menace yet has nothing to stop them from using their spells off cooldown.

In the case of Zed, at least he does have to be somewhat mindful about using abilities. For example, if he uses his spells to waveclear, then he will not have enough energy to fight, whereas champions who use no resources can do whatever they want whenever they want. This is my point on how people love to join together and complain about a problem while they don't actually think about their arguments.

And look at the comments that get downvoted. They aren't the troll comments that ruin discussion but they are the comments that argue the opposite side of the argument. So many people instantly downvote anything that doesn't align with their opinion and they refuse to actually discuss about what could be done, and I have no doubt this post will be downvoted to oblivion.

One other thing I find interesting is how people also complain about using Reddit compared to Boards, maybe it is because on reddit people actually attempt to understand what other people's arguments are. Instead of barraging the comment with downvotes.

Only Play DariusJan 30, 201511 votes

Gnar is also overpowered. Ranged, %HP on basic attacks, no mana, gapclose/escape, slow, sudden tankiness. He is to top lane what zed is to mid lane. Gnar kites you endlessly while zed pokes you endlessly, they both need to be nerfed.

ninjacapoJan 30, 20157 votes

that's how downvoting works moron. you downvote things that you dislike, upvote things that you agree with. that way, you dont have to say "i second that!" to every comment.

the problem is that zed doesnt have to be mindful of his abilities. he can non-stop spam his abilities for about 1:30. that's way longer than most.

gnar is also OP. that's why he's pick or ban in the lcs. he can sit back and poke, then get tanky as shit and murder you. it's the same as zed, but in the top lane

JoquanJan 30, 20151 votes

When you go to reddit and try to downvote someone, it says "This is NOT a dislike button".

The downvote button is supposed to be to things that aren't related to the topic, such as troll posts.

So explain to me how bobbyharris12 is not being related to the topic?

mew28Jan 30, 20153 votes

Were not on reddit.

J3 e c k e t tJan 30, 20153 votes

Okay here goes. Before you complain about the champ know the champ. Zed's typical poke combo is e-q with a possible w. This can NOT be spammed every 6 seconds. Speaking of mana and energy. I would prefer mana on zed, and here's why. Mana on zed would be op, since his usual combo drains every ounce of energy from his bar. Sure energy regens faster, but you get a hell of a lot less. If zed had mana, you all would complain even more. All the energy does is assist his early game weakness a little. Giving him mana would hinder him early, but he would be unstoppable late. Before you cry, know what you're complaining about.

ninjacapoJan 30, 20152 votes

but the amount of energy he gives up for his combo comes back pretty damn fast compared to the chunk of health he takes from you and the CS he denies you. i agree that he shouldnt have mana (because he'd build manamune and it'd be over), but they need to relook at his energy system and figure something out. at least to weaken his early game because he shouldnt be strong at all points in the game

AMYS GRAVEJan 30, 20154 votes

If zed uses his weq combo and hits his abilities it costs him 125 energy, but he gets 80 refunded for a grand total of 45 energy. 6 seconds later he can eq again but by then he has regenerated to full energy. He can use his w on cd and his eq on the 6 sec cooldown of his q and maintain his energy for ~1:45. He can use his abilities on cd for nearly two minutes without going ooe. Compare that to another energy user like shen whose combo costs 210 energy (read more energy than he has) and if he hits his target only gets 40 refunded. shen has to hit his abilities to get one spell rotation while zed can maintain his for nearly two minutes. #dothemath

For god sakes don't make him mana based that would be terrible, but his energy costs need to be meaningful.

The SwedeJan 30, 20152 votes

God forbid champs like Heimerdinger to become slightly viable.