Just rename support role to Thresh role already

Ulquiorra995·Oct 23, 2015·86 votes·5,374 views

Or for an even better solution - nerf the fucker until he is no longer 1.) destroying botlane variety by himself and 2.) feeling like complete bullshit to play against. Thank you.

144 Comments

Zorae42Oct 23, 201520 votes

Honestly, I don't mind playing against him. I mind playing against him again and again and again and.....

Nerf him into the ground for like 2-3 patches and then slowly revert them. Having a little diversity bot lane for even just a month or two would be amazing.

So remove the reduced CD on his hook when he lands it. Halve the distance he can get from his lantern. Increase all his mana costs. Reduce his health and movespeed. I really don't care. Just make him less appealing and appropriate for any team comp for a little while. And maybe when you revert the changes people will have learned other supports and not feel like they need to play him.

Maximum MordeOct 23, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I don't mind playing against him. I mind playing against him again and again and again and.....

Nerf him into the ground for like 2-3 patches and then slowly revert them. Having a little diversity bot lane for even just a month or two would be amazing.

So remove the reduced CD on his hook when he lands it. Halve the distance he can get from his lantern. Increase all his mana costs. Reduce his health and movespeed. I really don't care. Just make him less appealing and appropriate for any team comp for a little while. And maybe when you revert the changes people will have learned other supports and not feel like they need to play him.

Someone suggested having his lantern click able by enemies as well as team. I think that would be for great lolz.

manbearswineOct 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6mckuBxJ,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-10-23T16:13:27.348+0000)

Someone suggested having his lantern click able by enemies as well as team. I think that would be for great lolz.

It will mostly likely end up being a buff due to mislicks.

Prospector PeteOct 23, 201514 votes

"Or, how about let's increase the cooldown on his hook by 0.1 second at first rank, but decrease it by 5 seconds at max rank."

OhthePiplupOct 23, 20153 votes

This one will separate the good threshes( Threshi?) from the great ones

LadyRenlyOct 23, 201511 votes

Can't have one Thresh without the other Blitzcrank

I wouldn't mind other supports becoming viable that support in ways other than just spoonfeed kills

xShadowBladeOct 23, 201515 votes

{quoted}

Can't have one without the other

I wouldn't mind other supports becoming viable that support in ways other than just spoonfeed kills

All supports are viable... if you dont want to rise in rank. If you do, then you have to force feed kills to your adc and make plays. If youre content with your rank, by all means play any support you wish, theyre all decent if youre good with them.

Spacesuit SpiffOct 23, 20152 votes

Spoonfeeding kills is how you win soloq. By all means go a different playstyle, if youre ok with your random adcs doing absolutely nothing to capitalize on it.

Troll for TrumpOct 23, 20153 votes

Blitz is worse than thresh. Thresh's pull although being slower, stuns them longer, can be used as an escape. Thresh, has a firggin lantern as utility, which is better than blitz's nerfed W. Blitz has an arguably better E than Thresh. Blitz's R is better than Thresh's. Thresh still brings more utility, he's like the lovechild of Naut's cc and Blitz's hook and a utility lantern of doom.

DemacryOct 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Can't have one without the other

I wouldn't mind other supports becoming viable that support in ways other than just spoonfeed kills

Sona Soraka Janna Lulu ...

luckmalloryOct 23, 20159 votes

Not gonna lie I feel like Braum Janna Nautilus are all way worse to play against.

CasterGilgameshOct 23, 20152 votes

What? Why is Janna and Braum there lol

PikmintsOct 23, 20154 votes

Probably because Janna is the premier peel support, making many forms of engage (and even a number of escapes) far less effective. You're less likely to get an offensive opportunity and they're not likely to engage, so it can feel passive with there being little you could do to change that.

And then Braum is able to force the enemy laners to attack him despite the standard strategy being "attack the enemy carry", while carrying a ranged slow that chunks and acts as a good engage, which trying to fight out results in you getting stunned so you're nearly forced to retreat/kite (if you can without being stunned). Because of these he's able to act as a great peeler and engager, not something many tanky champions have aside from Thresh. Combine this with competitive teams taking him a lot lately and people realize that a Braum that knows what he's doing can be devastating, or at least moreso than other supports that can't be as versatile.

xShadowBladeOct 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Probably because Janna is the premier peel support, making many forms of engage (and even a number of escapes) far less effective. You're less likely to get an offensive opportunity and their not likely to engage, so it can feel passive with there being little you could do to change that.

And then Braum is able to force the enemy laners to attack him despite the standard strategy being "attack the enemy carry", while carrying a ranged slow that chunks and acts as a good engage, which trying to fight out results in you getting stunned so you're nearly forced to retreat/kite (if you can without being stunned). Because of these he's able to act as a great peeler and engager, not something many tanky champions have aside from Thresh. Combine this with competitive teams taking him a lot lately and people realize that a Braum that knows what he's doing can be devastating, or at least moreso than other supports that can't be as versatile.

Janna is one of the weakest supports, why? allow me to explain. Her supporting style is hands-off meaning that you rely on things to happen for you and you have little in the way of making them happen. Lets give a scenario, youre being chased by 3 enemy players and you and your adc are running away. You launch a tornado to stop your pursuers, then one of them flashes over it and stuns you. Youre dead, because you cant control anything that happens after your tornado is launched, you cant guide it, you cant cancel it, and youre stuck with a fair length cooldown now on it, so now your next option becomes your ult, and what if the 2nd or 3rd enemy flash/dash/tumble past you and you end up ulting them into your adc. Now you get BOTH of you killed.

Arguments to these points usually presented are 1) have better positioning 2) know their cooldowns and react accordingly and finally 3) dont be in that position to begin with. Do you see the problem here? where as an alistar could wait for a player to flash and the pulverize them, or pulverize to start with, or headbutt them and even if they flash he will follow with the headbutt, where as janna just presses a button and hopes for the best. This style of play is so dangerous and so ineffective under so many circumstances that i will dodge a lobby outright if we have a support janna. Imagine trying to peel for your adc against a zed, he just uses shadow to pass you and ults your adc, and there is now nothing you can do because hes either too far, or youre in the wrong position. If you end up behind your adc trying to peel for them and waiting for zed, you will be limiting your impact in the fight and a smart zed will simply ult your mid laner who will likely be closer than you or your adc. Either way Janna is just a really limited use champ only working practically with people who are incapable of making any sort of decent outplays or using tactics. Theres a reason janna isnt in the LCS/Worlds anymore. Theres just far far far better options with champs that have more control over their abilities.

P.S sorry for long post. TL;DR Janna is too much of a hands off support, you press a button and hope your skills goes in the right direction/does what you WANTED it to do, you release control of the skill from your hand and hope the opponents walk into them, or misposition. There are other supports that can take advantage of an opponent's misposition far more effectively.

TDubHOct 23, 20159 votes

I disagree, Janna's not being used in world for different reasons other than "She's too hands off" First of all, Janna does really well against team comps which are solely focused on jumping in YOLO style with a single jump however worlds has been favoring a lot of multi target engage with multiple mobility I.E. Malphite is uninterruptable, Vikky is too long ranged etc, meanwhile other supps can totally tank for ADC, Braum or be a tank themselves like alistar...

Janna is a GREAT support still even with those nerfs, and talking about "Flashing over the tornado" is the same as talking about "Flashing the pulverize" "flashing the winters bite" "Flashing the hook" all these skillshots can be flashed difference is that the tornado can cause multiple flashes, and the same thing is that all of these trade a under 20 second spell for a 300 second flash which is a favorable trade in the majority of situations.

Yes other supports can punish mispositioning of enemies which is where janna is niche - she does the opposite she helps the positioning of allies, where kassadin would've jumped in and killed she knocks him away. which is why she's still strong.

To call Janna a Hand's Off support is a misnomer, more accurately is to call her an "enabler" support as she is very effective in creating Juggermaw comps however she's weaker in multithreat comps because while effective at making a single threat an uber threat she can't fill in for the necessary tank which is why she loses favor at worlds as she isn't tanky.

RedCycloneOct 23, 20159 votes

I want thresh to be knocked down a few pegs It's not really fair to say that champs like Sona/Taric/Janna ect get thier 15 minutes of fame and nerfed for it, while this fucker has been top pick for 2.5 years

IonianOct 23, 20157 votes

But it's not the Thresh role. It's Thresh-Janna. Because the other role in bot lane is the Vayne role.

manbearswineOct 23, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6mckuBxJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-23T14:56:54.880+0000)

But it's not the Thresh role. It's Thresh-Janna. Because the other role in bot lane is the Vayne role.

Janna's been nerfed out of it,and she's mostly replaced by braum.

LintheOct 23, 20157 votes

I take it that you haven't been present for all the Raka hate this week...

Jack ºOct 23, 20154 votes

bananas are better then dumb oranges! Soraka Gangplank

HayRossOct 23, 20154 votes

u wot m8y? ill drag u to the botom of davy jones' lockr u cheeky landlubber

manbearswineOct 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I take it that you haven't been present for all the Raka hate this week...

No such thing. Soraka is hated all the time,why was she shoved back to support from mid? Why do we have to deal with this garbage?

NemeBroOct 23, 20157 votes

Daily reminder that Thresh players are statistically more experienced with their champion on average (which is insane, considering his huge play rate) than all other support players save Zyra and Fiddlesticks, while having a worse average win rate.

People like to pin Thresh's relative lack of success in Yolo Q on most people playing him being baddies, but statistically this probably isn't the case.

Professor WardOct 23, 20155 votes

i would take 2 thresh and an adc over a soraka support

LeonerdoOct 23, 20155 votes

Yes he is very popular right now.
He can be annoying (damn lantern) especially when the player is good with him. BUT
He's actually really weak in the hands of most players (source: champion.gg)
Even in the hands of his hardcore mains, he doesn't win as often as he should.

So why do so many people play him? I can think of two reasons. First, he is versatile, i.e. he is mediocre in all match-ups. Second, maybe people just think he's fun to play?

What can actually be done to make him less annoying? Well flat nerfs would just make him terribad (he's already weakish). Maybe shift some power from his lantern (his most annoying ability imo) to something else? That's really all that can be done, because he's in a decent spot re: balance, gameplay, thematics.

Ulquiorra995Oct 23, 20152 votes

First of all, I actually like his play style and overall feel. But too much is simply too much.

He is not just very popular. He is out of control. In a game with 25 (primary or secondary) support champions, this one motherfucker seeing play in 2/5 games on average is a problem. Even while not being overpowered due to his kit he is very frustrating to face, and you have to face him in 2/5 of your games. At this point, even if balanced, he should get nerfed just for the sake of variety.

And while being versatile isn't bad, in Thresh's case it just comes in an extremely frustrating package. I like to take Nami as a good example of a versatile support. She has everything: CC, damage, sustain... BUT it never feels unfair with her CC being very telegraphed, her main spell burning through her mana and her being squishy - which means if she messes up, she can be severely punished.

I think Riot should slowly start toning down/removing some of the stuff he doesn't really need (AP on passive, CD reduction on Q, make lantern actually have some goddamn counter play, slow on E, etc) - then if he proves too weak start adding power in other areas. You know - so he actually has strengths and weaknesses.

Cloud PotatoOct 24, 20152 votes

It's hard to describe my hatred for Thresh's playstyle, because literally everything about him annoys me. I'll do the best I can, but it might be a bit disjointed:

Thresh's basic attacks and E are impactful and essentially unavoidable, at a range. This means that as soon as you enter his range you're eating damage and CC, guaranteed. This applies regardless of whether you engage on him, he engages on you, or either of you walk up to each other. He has a zone around him that always results in you getting hit when you enter it, giving Thresh and his ally an advantage regardless of how you engage each other.

Q is very unreliable. But the onus is not on Thresh to aim well, it's on you to avoid it. Every unreliable ability ends up this way, as the lower chance of success, the higher the reward (see: Nidalee ). And Thresh's reward for landing it is pretty good. This makes for a frustrating experience, since whenever Q is available you have to respect the space around him, and Q's range is very long. Another frustration point is that Thresh loses very little for failing to land Q. As described in the second paragraph, Thresh has a guaranteed damage and CC combo if you engage on him, so it's difficult to take advantage of Thresh when he's at his weakest. And unlike, say, Blitzcrank or Leona, Thresh is not useless if he burns his engage tool.

Which comes to Thresh's long range strategy. If Thresh is having trouble or is being threatened by Jungle presence, he can sit at long ranges and still contribute. Q's long range can extend very far, so he can still engage on you if the tides change, and he has W to save his ADC should things get hot. Plus, if you want to go super aggressive, you're now in his space and see second paragraph.

So in short, Thresh has super reliable tools at a relatively good range, and powerful yet unreliable tools at longer range. He is quite simply too safe, while also threatening you at the same time. Plus W is an extremely useful ability for both engage and disengage that no other champion can come close to emulating. Thresh has absolutely no weaknesses beyond having poor sustained damage early game, which would matter if he wasn't accompanied by a sustained damage champion at all times.

BlunterMonkOct 23, 20153 votes

Thresh just has too many things going for him.

Long distance Ally pull, Long distance enemy pull, gap closer, shield, tons of CC, and stacking power in his auto attacks.

Try as you might, it's near impossible to get around him and away from him. Plus he does a ton of damage but that's just a gripe I have.

howstheweather13Oct 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Try as you might, it's near impossible to get around him and away from him. Plus he does a ton of damage but that's just a gripe I have.

This is where you lost me. Please explain.

mikemcpartyOct 23, 20153 votes

I still think Blitz is more impactful than Thresh. Tahm is MUCH stronger atm. People like to play thresh because he is fun, his kit is engaging, and his impact is rewarding. He really isn't that overwhelming in games, unless you are playing poorly and he can land a hook/follow up when your team isn't there to help.

Ulquiorra995Oct 23, 20153 votes

It's not that Thresh is straight out overpowered. But two things stand out, and combined make him one of the most frustrating champions in the game.

1.) His overloaded kit. He has all the strengths support might wish for with none of the weaknesses. 2.) His pick rate. Statistically, 2/5 games will contain a Thresh. With 25 support champions in this game, this is a huge problem. Anyway, playing against a champion like that with stupid amount of strengths and no real exploitable weakness over and over again starts sucking out all the fun from playing botlane after a while.

BaunjoOct 23, 20152 votes

That is complete bullshit. Pick rate means nothing, 6/10 of my games that I have an OP champion on my team end with them feeding, people just keep believing this stupid shit about having everything so everyone tries to play him.

And whether you think so or not, he does NOT have everything.

He has absolutely no damage.

He does not have a heal ( And do not try the item 3302 shield bullshit, that can give any champion without a heal a heal, not just thresh.

His mobility is dependent completely on his surroundings

He actually IS squishy because he does not have armor per level ( People forget that )

His CC is skillshot reliant UNLESS you decide to let him just run up to you to R or E, and there are many more champions that will fuck you over if you let them just get in your face

chipndip1Oct 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That is complete bullshit. Pick rate means nothing, 6/10 of my games that I have an OP champion on my team end with them feeding, people just keep believing this stupid shit about having everything so everyone tries to play him.

And whether you think so or not, he does NOT have everything.

He has absolutely no damage.

He does not have a heal ( And do not try the shield bullshit, that can give any champion without a heal a heal, not just thresh.

His mobility is dependent completely on his surroundings

He actually IS squishy because he does not have armor per level ( People forget that )

His CC is skillshot reliant UNLESS you decide to let him just run up to you to R or E, and there are many more champions that will fuck you over if you let them just get in your face

He can actually build into damage. He's secondarily a fighter.

SmithneyOct 23, 20153 votes

No no no no, don't nerf Thresh, he's not OP...

Rework him because he's a broken piece of overloaded cancer.

Coming from a former Thresh main, by the way. He's fun to play, but the novelty falls off after you get to see him every game.

cFlameOct 24, 20153 votes

You think Thresh is the big problem, when its the lack of variety in supports bot lane. Caster supports such as Nami , and Sona are almost non-existent. item 3303 only has early use, then gets sold for item 3069 later on. For whatever reason item 2049 remains having its only build path being item 2045 , strengthening the tanky supports.

VentiraOct 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You think is the big problem, when its the lack of variety in supports bot lane. Caster supports such as , and are almost non-existent. only has early use, then gets sold for later on. For whatever reason remains having its only build path being , strengthening the tanky supports.

To be fair, Riot did mention them looking into/working on different upgrades for Sightstone.

IceKingChernobogOct 24, 20153 votes

Thresh "Anything you can do i can do better, i can do anything better than you!"

and you Nami and you Alistar and you Blitzcrank and you Braum and you Karma and you... Leona pssssh, definitively better than you Sona Bard

TahmKench "Heh, but not better than m-" Thresh "Your nerfs are inevitable you cancerous piece of shit!"

SquarefighterOct 24, 20151 votes

Thresh heals better than Nami, Alistair, or Sona? He can poke better than Karma or Sona? He can peel better than Braum? Damn, TIL.

CasterGilgameshOct 24, 20151 votes

thresh dont have heals

SquarefighterOct 25, 20151 votes

Exactly.

HexadusOct 23, 20152 votes

Make Thresh's Lantern target-able and destructible by the opposing team (3 Life Bars somewhat akin to GP's barrels).

When destroyed - Thresh's lantern's cool-down is increased by 25%.

If an allied champion grabs the lantern, the cool-down is reduced by 25%.

ramdom206Oct 23, 20152 votes

as a thresh main, i can say that there are counters to thresh. First, any support that has a stun hurts him since you can land one when he uses q since he cant move when he doing his animation. also, any adc that has poke(jinx rockets, siver q, ashe w) kicks his ass since he has no tank early and can only do his cc up close. also thresh becomes useless if the teams falls behind. and his lantern isnt any worse than a champ with a dash. while i agree that thresh is overplayed(I hate mirror matchs) it is mainly bc people hate support and they got to be madlife,which isnt any different than trying to be doublelift with vayne(34%playrate) or boxbox with riven(22%playrate) or insec with lee sin(34%playrate)yet i dont hear complains over them. just saying

Janna Me FiddleOct 23, 20152 votes

Threshes problem is that age old problem that Riot once upon a time admitted to when it came to Jax/Irelia/Jarvan but seem quite content to ignore it when it comes to Thresh.

Free Gold Stats.

While Tanky supports traditionally need some form of Free Gold Stats to make up for the support budget and ranged supports tend to get strong utility, Thresh gets both.

His passive gives him tanking stats for free yet his kit operates mostly at range...now before you go "But Braum, Tahm, Blitz and Leona have ranged abilities" remember....

Threshes AA is Ranged.

This allows him to not only have a safer laning phase, but allows him the ability to harass outside of hook and flay.

You don't have to make a choice between aggression and caution with Thresh, you get both, it's why I won't play him because I disagree with the principle of having a Support that does everything other supports can do with no real weakness.

Supports should be High Utility, or High Pick/Peel potential, not both.

Unfortunately, Riot will never rework his kit because "E-Sports Big Plays highlights" so the best we can hope for is some kind of nerfs to his kit in the form of toning down his passive.

High5Oct 24, 20152 votes

Must be a tough level 19 life playing against Thresh. Spend your time learning to beat tough champs instead of complaining about them on the forums.

VentiraOct 24, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Must be a tough level 19 life playing against Thresh. Spend your time learning to beat tough champs instead of complaining about them on the forums.

It's not about difficulty laning against, that has conceivably nothing to do with the major point of this thread. What this thread is saying is We're sick of seeing him in pretty much every single game ever.

darkmatchwaldoOct 24, 20151 votes

I would rather play against Thresh than Blitzcrank Annie TahmKench Malphite Nautilus anyday.

Mael broOct 24, 20151 votes

a great Bard player is more terrifying than any other support

LaserDeathBladeOct 25, 20151 votes

Lol Thresh is like once of the least bullshit supports in my experience

The only good thing about Thresh is that he's relatively decent in any lane, but he's nowhere near as good as a counterpicked support that truly shyts on your lane.

howstheweather13Oct 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Or for an even better solution - nerf the fucker until he is no longer 1.) destroying botlane variety by himself and 2.) feeling like complete bullshit to play against. Thank you.

Sadly I don't share this view. It takes tremendous amounts of effort to be good at thresh or any champ for that matter. Keep in mind Thresh has long cool downs and he is a skill shot champ which is why he has such a high skillcap. He has insane utility everyone knows that, but knowing exactly when to use this power is the difference between a fairly good and godly Thresh player.

The problem isn't the champion tbh its Riot. Balance/power shifting/fotm. Riot has a broad player base to cater to, so they can't make everyone happy. Best advice I can give is learn to counter play Leona and Nami are good counters so are high mobility champs oh it's also a good idea to focus Thresh just like you would a Soraka or you never killing that ADC.