Lulu changes: "The damage taken by targets subsequent to the first by each bolt is reduced to 70%"

YumaS2Astral·Jun 15, 2016·10 votes·2,244 views

This means that top/mid lane Lulu is dead?

40 Comments

KVbqbFsC8eJun 15, 20167 votes

{quoted}

This means that top/mid lane Lulu is dead?

Hopefully.

YumaS2AstralJun 15, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ruzuJu2L,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-06-15T23:14:53.883+0000)

Hopefully.

Why hopefully? What's the problem on Lulu being viable at solo lane? She has't been overbearing for a long time since her nerfs. She currently sits under a 49% winrate and has a lot of downsides (damage falls off late game, she is squishy so it is risky to pick her at top)

She isn't a bad solo laner by any means, but she isn't overpowered either, I don't get why Riot is trying to kill solo lane Lulu.

KVbqbFsC8eJun 15, 20167 votes

Because maybe it'll make it so they can actually buff Lulu as a support, without making lane Lulu strong. Solo lane Lulu is absolutely cancerous to play against, and whenever its anything near strong its pick/ban in competitive.

DrDiagaJun 15, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ruzuJu2L,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-06-15T23:34:28.899+0000)

Because maybe it'll make it so they can actually buff Lulu as a support, without making lane Lulu strong. Solo lane Lulu is absolutely cancerous to play against, and whenever its anything near strong its pick/ban in competitive.

Its currently not cancerous. Bit on the weak side if anything.

KVbqbFsC8eJun 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Its currently not cancerous. Bit on the weak side if anything.

Maybe not currently, but if Lulu were to be buffed, it would certainly become a nightmare to play against in solo lanes. This nerf should allow Riot to buff Support Lulu, without it being a strong solo laner.

Zero Skill TankJun 16, 20163 votes

Being weak has little to do with game health.

GaleWinUnleashedJun 16, 20165 votes

Solo Lulu hasn't been overbearing for quite some time, yes. But the price of getting her to that state was the weakening of support Lulu.

AzlagorJun 15, 20166 votes

Depends wether the As buff from W is applies to her self or aswell or only allies. Don't forget that the ratio gets increased by 0.2ap aswell, so basically only the base damage is reduced on subsequent targets** comapred to live.**

YumaS2AstralJun 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Depends wether the As buff from W is applies to her self or aswell or only allies. Don't forget that the ratio gets increased by 0.2ap aswell, so basically only the base damage is reduced on subsequent targets comapred to live.

The ratio is also decreased, as nothing in the text says "base damage reduced", it says "damage reduced" which means base + ratio.

AzlagorJun 15, 20168 votes

Her new ratio will be 0.7ap, which gets reduced to 70% on subsequent targets, so pbe lulu has a ~0.5 ratio vs subsequent targets, which is the same that life lulu has on all targets, so her ap ratio on Q** compared to live** gets a buff vs the first target and stays the same for the rest.

Voluug13Jun 16, 20162 votes

So its actually a Solo lane Lulu buff.

The dream continues.

ProfDrDeathJun 16, 20165 votes

No.

Solo lane Lulu actually uses Q a lot more for waveclear. With only 70% damage to targets beyond the first, her waveclear will take a decently sized hit, as the damage reduction also affects Q's (rather high) base damage.

AzlagorJun 20, 20161 votes

unless you get fed or rish ludens, you will need two lances for a wace anyway, so it's not that hard of a nerf for better trades and utillity. However, with the ap ratio beeing reduced to 0.6 on pbe now, i fear that sololane lulu will have a hard time.

CppLJun 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The ratio is also decreased, as nothing in the text says "base damage reduced", it says "damage reduced" which means base + ratio.

no.It means dmg on the first target is buffed ,and dmg on the second one is the same.So its a buff for poke ,but nerf for the wave clear ,i guess :/

disregardableJun 15, 20164 votes

It's not that bad though?

Nameless VoiceJun 15, 20164 votes

Doesn't it mean that hiding behind your minions will be a viable tactic, but good Lulu players will still be able to hit for full damage?

GaleWinUnleashedJun 16, 20161 votes

It also includes a tradeoff where you have to sacrifice waveclearing to get maximum poke.

manbearswineJun 16, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ruzuJu2L,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-06-15T23:19:24.091+0000)

Doesn't it mean that hiding behind your minions will be a viable tactic, but good Lulu players will still be able to hit for full damage?

No, it means she just pokes worse.

rescuedJun 15, 20164 votes

Good. Lulu can stay as support then. She should never be used as a solo laner.

YumaS2AstralJun 15, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Good. Lulu can stay as support then. She should never be used as a solo laner.

Why?

There are lots of supports which are perfectly viable as solo laners: Morgana Karma TahmKench Zyra

rescuedJun 15, 20162 votes

Morgana, Brand, and Zyra and built as pure mages. People take them into support to take advantage of them. Tahm - he was very OP on release and needed HEAVY nerfs. Karma is borderline mage/support.

SnugglePuggle94Jun 20, 20161 votes

Karma was a pure mage, dude. Riot pushed her into the support role.

LwntJun 16, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Why?

There are lots of supports which are perfectly viable as solo laners:

I am sorry but I dont want her to be solo lane. As someone who played lulu support for 4 years (pretty much main her) I have seen the constant nerf that lulu support felt because lulu solo is to overbearing. Riot seriously struggle when balancing solo and support lulu because most of the time its hurting support lulu (by nerfing the base utility) a lot more then solo lulu.

Also the supports that you mention vs lulu the big difference is that lulu utility is scaling with AP which solo lulu can scale a lot better then support lulu. Making a champion who has good damage and strong utility. Those other champion you mention have no utility scaling well except for tahm kench but he doesnt have wave clear like lulu.

rescuedJun 16, 20164 votes

THANK YOU! finally another lulu main. People that don't play her support don't understand.

Zero Skill TankJun 16, 20164 votes

Morgana Zyra all were originally solo laners.

L0ve Is BlueJun 15, 20163 votes

That means lulu is dead.

Kanzaki RankoJun 16, 20163 votes

No it doesn't

People will still play her in a solo lane, especially with an increased AP ratio lol

BloodyTomponJun 16, 20163 votes

Nope. It means she isn't as oppressive in top lane against melees. She can still poke them without reciprocation, but it'll probably be for less.

ModAcademy KaynJun 15, 20162 votes

Yay!

Athenes LuluJun 16, 20162 votes

~~Now my next question, what if Lulu and Pix both line up side by side, and shot into target location? Does targets closer to Lulu takes more damage, or the ones closer to Pix?~~

~~Because if they count Lulu as "first" and Pix as "second", then yes, death to Lulu solo.~~

70% glitterlance damage = RIP Lulu solo? Really? You're joking, right?

######Though as a Lulu support main for 3 years I will not miss Lulu solo lane :^)

BloodyTomponJun 16, 20161 votes

It's done separately from the sound of it. The damage from _each_bolt.

WoonStruckJun 16, 20162 votes

Finally.

I will not miss lane Lulu.

No, she's not too overbearing atm, but its about as fun as laning against Azir or Lux early on as a melee.

Good riddance. Now support Lulu might be made viable again.

A Dizzy LuluJun 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Finally.

I will not miss lane Lulu.

No, she's not too overbearing atm, but its about as fun as laning against Azir or Lux early on as a melee.

Good riddance. Now support Lulu might be made viable again.

Yeah well guess what?

It'll still be played, lol. These buff both lulus. The first minion takes 260+70% ap and the things behind it take 186 + 50% AP, so that's a whopping 74 base damage nerf compared to live. Woooo? yeah no, nothing will change, lol.

WoonStruckJun 16, 20162 votes

It means her early harass won't be as strong unless she lands a direct hit, which means she'll feel her mana issues a lot more.

Especially since she'll have to E in most cases in order to land a full strength Q now.

30% less damage is a lot.

Oakleaf RangerJun 19, 20162 votes

I rather see this champion burn unless she is only viable as a support. A solo lane lulu should never have been a thing.

TTK DreadnoughtJun 16, 20161 votes

its just adding a tooltip from what i read. not a gameplay change. Like Illaoi's halfed damage on overlapping tentacles. it was already in game, but they added a tooltip

GaleWinUnleashedJun 16, 20165 votes

This is definitely a change. Glitterlance currently does full damage to all targets hit, so giving it the Zed Q treatment is most certainly more than a tooltip change.