So, I need the community to help me understand something...

Blade of Justic·May 8, 2017·3 votes·666 views

Why does Pre-Rework Sion to Post-Rewok Sion = Amazing Rework But Pre-Rework Galio to Post-Rework Galio = Bad Rework?

I thought the problem was that neither champ really did anything useful before their reworks.

It can't be a matter of change in identity because Galio is still a guardian and Sion is still an undead warlord.

It can't be a matter of change in kit because both Galio and Sion lost a majority of their abilities from their old kit when their rework came out.

So, what is it? Help me understand.

11 Comments

GiantEnemyShacoMay 8, 20174 votes

New Galio is so much better of a champion than old Galio. Anyone who says otherwise is just talking through nostalgia goggles.

Sure, "old" Galio was the original, but first drafts are rarely the best. Old Galio felt like clunky ass trying to play him. At best, you were a brick wall of MR with a taunt for an ultimate that could be made semi-usable with flash. At worst, you were a glorified support, doomed to die simply to give the ADC a few more hitpoints to buffer between them and the inevitable embrace of death.

Galio's rework made him not only a lot more fun to play, but way more consistent. Playing against old Galio was hit or miss. He might just shit the bed (most of the time he would shit the bed) but other times he comes out of laning phase 3-0 and just two shots everyone because he built full AP.

AgentBlackMay 8, 20172 votes

I think new Galio is pretty conclusively better. Not perfect, but better. I don't think many people would disagree either, not sure where you're seeing that.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 8, 20172 votes

Two words: nostalgia goggles.

Darkdemon653May 8, 20171 votes

Old Sion had two different (half) designs within his kit. He had both a mage design with his Q and W and an AD carry design in his E and ult. It was hard to make him worse, and he still needs a lot of work.

Old Galio had no problems and was changed just for the sake of it, though he's still a fine champion.

MalrothDragoniaMay 8, 20174 votes

I would say old Galio did have problems, his high mana costs, high cooldowns, and having most of his power in his ult, which also had a high cd meant that his windows of effectiveness were super small. He had a niche against pretty much only 5-man AP teams which were rare. His passive was a lot of invisible power that was OP in games where he was effective, and borderline useless against comps that he needed xonia's/armor items depending if he was going mage or tank. I loved old galio, but he definitely had problems. Only thing I miss is his old visuals, but his new kit is pretty sweet.

Darkdemon653May 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I would say old Galio did have problems, his high mana costs, high cooldowns, and having most of his power in his ult, which also had a high cd meant that his windows of effectiveness were super small. He had a niche against pretty much only 5-man AP teams which were rare. His passive was a lot of invisible power that was OP in games where he was effective, and borderline useless against comps that he needed xonia's/armor items depending if he was going mage or tank. I loved old galio, but he definitely had problems. Only thing I miss is his old visuals, but his new kit is pretty sweet.

Those are balance problems, not design problems. Balance problems do not warrant reworks.

As for his passive, I will accept calling his passive nad design, but I do like when teams are punushed for stacking one type of damage, even though it means being weak to the other. The other thing I would say in defense of his passive is one of the reasons it wasn't great is physical damage is simply better in LoL than magical damage.

RalanrMay 8, 20173 votes

Here's a design problem: melee champion with a ranged champion kit.

ZT XperimentorMay 8, 20171 votes

Sion was rather problimatic before his rework, think a melee burst mage that got tankier as he snowballed. Galio could burst people but needed to actualy sacrifice durability to do so. Both intended to be tanks, and riot reworked into that direction . . . Sion still has significant damage and durability but it's not immediate; galio's is decent but unreliable.

Archlord AatroxMay 8, 20171 votes

I am probably one of the few, but I like old Galio compared to new Galio. I mained him before his rework, and I just understood his kit and what to do with him at the time. I would usually outfarm and outdamage my team, average was 35k damage and usually above 200 cs most of the time. New Galio: he's a lot of fun, but I miss nuking teams with his old kit, but I'm glad he has a more concrete identity as a champion. Before, he had support style spells, fought like a mage but was classified as a tank. Now, he's just a straight bruiser tank with a lot more CC and peeling. His VGU was a lot different compared to others. (*WARNING: my honest opinions.) Take Karma, Sion and Poppy for example. Their reasons were based on that their kits and identities were confusing as hell. Karma's Mantra buffs were out of place and just confusing, but now she's a aggressive mage with utility. Sion was just a melee fighter who either went full AP or full lifesteal, but now he's a juggernaut tank that can peel and still do damage at the same time. Poppy was similar, but in team fights, she was kind of lackluster. But now, she has better team fights and has a more clear identity. Those were the cases of class and role identities. Now, look at Warwick, Taric and Yorick. They were all a mixture of "how can we make this champ better while still keeping their theme intact," and receive a desperately needed makeover. All three looked super old, but needed fine-tuning in their kits in order to have a better impact in the game overall. Warwick couldn't gank pre-level 6, only had duelist capabilities and was super easy to play. Taric, same issue in being easy to play, but needed better team-oriented spells and thematic exploration. As for Yorick, people would just rush mana items and you would never die, but he was a solo duelist that could be killed (sorta) in team fights. But back to your argument, Galio's VGU was the result of having a confusing identity and bring more to a team fight and having options, instead of flash-ulting the team. Galio now has combos, sustain and can be considered a juggernaut since he can go exceptionally tank, yet still deal damage (i.e. Sion and Poppy). And I completely 200% agree with you, Sion's rework was amazing, and IMO, it's the best VGU to date, just because Riot expanded so much on his lore, and really pushed the envelope on what he could do as a bruiser tank in team fights. Sion's VGU set the bar for future VGU's to come. I know this is quite the read, but I hope this helps, just my thoughts and opinions on VGU's in general.

Blade of JusticMay 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Chris Pratt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rsZF7cm9,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-05-08T16:12:30.614+0000)

And I completely 200% agree with you, Sion's rework was amazing, and IMO, it's the best VGU to date, just because Riot expanded so much on his lore, and really pushed the envelope on what he could do as a bruiser tank in team fights. Sion's VGU set the bar for future VGU's to come. I know this is quite the read, but I hope this helps, just my thoughts and opinions on VGU's in general.

I think there's some misconception.

I'm not a fan of Sion's Rework since I used to build him Lifesteal, AD and Crit and his new kit supports him being a tank instead.

I was just echoing what the community says about him.

hhaavviikkMay 8, 20171 votes

I'd say it has to do that with the fact that new galio looks NOTHING like old galio, complete new look, completely new abilities where as sion looks similar to old sion and still has the exploding shield and the health gain.