It's the fact that 
is overtuned.
Nerf the movement speed from 10% to 5%
The other MAJOR problem is 
The price needs to be increased from 500g to 800g.
But given Riot's track record they will just nerf Udyr before they even nerf Swifties and Runic, after which he will be in a much worse state than he was way before the items.
Slamurai Jack6 votesDevourer Udyr has a 56% winrate. Udyr is OP, it's not just the items.
M Schumacher3 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-02-09T23:01:02.608+0000)
Devourer Udyr has a 56% winrate. Udyr is OP, it's not just the items.
Devourer Udyr also builds swifties
Slamurai Jack5 votesI'm with you on the Swifites part. Needs more nerfs than the one it's getting. Revert the 5 MS buff it got in 5.22 or something; Why they thought raising the MS by 5, lowering the cost by 200, and leaving the passive the same was a good idea, I'll never know. But I still think Udyr is probably still too good even after that. Champs don't get winrates this high just because an item is too good on them; the champ themselves is also OP.
M Schumacher1 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-02-09T23:11:27.708+0000)
I'm with you on the Swifites part. Needs more nerfs than the one it's getting. Revert the 5 MS buff it got in 5.22 or something; Why they thought raising the MS by 5, lowering the cost by 200, and leaving the passive the same was a good idea, I'll never know. But I still think Udyr is probably still too good even after that. Champs don't get winrates this high just because an item is too good on them; the champ themselves is also OP.
No they do.
Hes had 0 changes since patch 4.5 which was a minor armor buff.
Slamurai Jack2 votesWhile Udyr himself has received no direct changes, item additions and changes and the mastery changes have been extremely favorable to him, probably moreso than any champion in the game. Dead Mans Plate? IBG? Free slow resist and Tenacity in the resolve tree? The removal of slow stacking? Sated Devourer? Rageblade? Lowered magic resist of monsters in the jungle? The addition of scuttle crab? I could go on.
M0b1us2 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-02-09T23:11:27.708+0000)
Champs don't get winrates this high just because an item is too good on them; the champ themselves is also OP.
That is 100% false. There have been TONS of examples where an item gets released or buffed and then a number of champions hugely benefit from it.
Iceborn gauntlet and spirit of the lizard made blue Ez amazingly strong, Cinderhulk made Sion and Sejuani monsters, feral flare made Yi, Noc, Udyr, WW, Shy and even Jax over the top, there was an entire meta for top lane where all you did was build 3-4 hearts of gold, and lets not even count how many champions got huge spikes in bulk with the release of runic bulwark.
Oh, and of course there was innervating locket on champs like Gragas, Udyr, Soraka.
Sir Yamazuki1 votesThat is 100% false. There have been TONS of examples where an item gets released or buffed and then a number of champions hugely benefit from it.
Iceborn gauntlet and spirit of the lizard made blue Ez amazingly strong, Cinderhulk made Sion and Sejuani monsters, feral flare made Yi, Noc, Udyr, WW, Shy and even Jax over the top, there was an entire meta for top lane where all you did was build 3-4 hearts of gold, and lets not even count how many champions got huge spikes in bulk with the release of runic bulwark.
Oh, and of course there was innervating locket on champs like Gragas, Udyr, Soraka.
In the case of Sej, her win rate actually didn't really go up much with Cinder, her win rate was already high before Cinder was even out but people wanted to pretend she's garbage and simply blamed the item because they still thought she was garbage and needed no nerfs.
M0b1us1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=00040000000000010000,timestamp=2016-02-09T23:54:57.783+0000)
In the case of Sej, her win rate actually didn't really go up much with Cinder, her win rate was already high before Cinder was even out but people wanted to pretend she's garbage and simply blamed the item because they still thought she was garbage and needed no nerfs.
Very true. However it did give HP tanks a significant boost to viability. Its why we started to see smite taken top lane. Now when Sejuani's E was buffed, that made her win rate jump. I played Sejuani a lot before then, but after that buff and cinderhulk it was painfully obvious what would follow.
But my point still stands. He said (and I am paraphrasing here), "items don't cause champions to become OP instantly". Yet historically that is completely false. Anyone who has played this game since S1 or S2 has seen it multiple times. Stonewall recently released a video that describes why certain older champions (notably Skarner) can experience such huge swings in power.
Udyr is a champion who's strength has always been heavily tied to items. Innervating locket made Udyr (and a few other champs) insanely strong. Though at that time, the jungle was pretty limited in who you could use. Then he was pretty unimpressive until wriggles came in and that cause Udyr top lane to be absolutely broken because the turtle stance healing would proc on all damage dealt. So if you got a wriggles proc in turtle, you would heal a ton of HP and mana (remember, old Udyr turtle, not current). Then they fixed that interaction and Udyr went back to being subpar. Feral flare came out, he was incredibly strong, FF nerfed, he was ok, the spirit items didn't really help him much, devourer made him strong, but not nearly as strong as other junglers who would use devourer. Now, RE is allowing Udyr to power farm the jungle without mana issues and gives him a nice MS. Its the cycle all over again.
So claiming that an item can't make a champion OP is simply untrue.
Hayaishi24 votesHe is a ball of stats that deserves a rework anyways.
Doctor Horse2 votesTHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
I thought I was one of the only people who felt this way!
Sum Wun Speshal2 votesthat's 300 gold increase on tier2 boots mate. are you sure, you are being reasonable here?
What are you going to do about AP junglers after nerfing the movement speed by 5%? (holy shit, that's a lot).
M Schumacher3 votes[{quoted}](name=Sum Wun Speshal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-09T22:44:19.469+0000)
that's 300 gold increase on tier2 boots mate. are you sure, you are being reasonable here?
What are you going to do about AP junglers after nerfing the movement speed by 5%? (holy shit, that's a lot).
The previous AP items didn't even give movement speed
Sum Wun Speshal1 votesyeah but that one had an AOE sheen effect that did even more damage on the long run than runic echoes, plus CDR, plus even easier mana regeneration. The only problem it had was the price and the fact that lots of AP junglers got excluded because they couldn't utilize it.
You basically want to nerf the item where it's good at.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=M Schumacher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-02-09T22:45:33.650+0000)
The previous AP items didn't even give movement speed
So? AP junglers exchanged movement speed for the cooldown reduction they used to have. It's not like they got it for free.
Phoenix Kotori 1 votesWhy does it make sense for Runic Echo to give as much MS as Ludens' echo?
Runeglaive doesn't scale with AP as hard as lichbane did.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Quinn of Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-02-09T23:37:30.582+0000)
Why does it make sense for Runic Echo to give as much MS as Ludens' echo?
Runeglaive doesn't scale with AP as hard as lichbane did.
Runic's passive has a smaller base than Luden's, that's the equivalent of Runeglaive having poorer AP scaling than Lich Bane.
The equivalent of the Luden's/Runic MS situation is the Runeglaive/Lich Bane cooldown reduction, and Runeglaive only ever gave the same amount of CDR that Lich did or more.
Phoenix Kotori 1 votesRunic's passive has a smaller base than Luden's, that's the equivalent of Runeglaive having poorer AP scaling than Lich Bane.
It has 40 less AP & 20 less base damage same AP ratio.... no it isn't lol.
Runeglaive had half the scaling and AP.
Its 600g cheaper it shouldn't get the same MS.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Quinn of Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rnp8zQ3k,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-10T00:02:57.969+0000)
It has 40 less AP & 20 less base damage same AP ratio.... no it isn't lol.
Runeglaive had half the scaling and AP.
Its 600g cheaper it shouldn't get the same MS.
You don't understand what I'm saying. Runeglaive had three primary stats - AP, mana and CDR. Lich Bane is the same. Luden's has two primary stats - AP & MS. Runic is the same. Runic/Luden's have the same proc, Runeglaive/Lich have the same proc.
Runeglaive had less AP than Lich, just as Runic has less AP than Luden's Runeglaive had the same amount of CDR and mana that Lich Bane has (it had more CDR than Lich Bane for most of its existence), just as Runic has the same amount of MS that Luden's has Runeglaive's passive had a smaller AP ratio than Lich Bane, Runic's passive has a smaller base than Luden's
Both of the AP jungle enchants have had less AP than their non-jungle equivalents, but have otherwise been identical or superior in term of stats. It makes just as much sense for Runic to have the same amount of MS that Luden's has as it did for Runeglaive to have the same amount/more CDR and mana that Lich Bane had.
It's entirely possible that Runic Echoes has too much MS on it but it's not because of the Luden's comparison. If the MS on Runic is too much then it's because MS on junglers is a lot more powerful than MS on mid lane mages.
Sum Wun Speshal1 votesThis, on the other hand, is debatable. If 10% MS for AP junglers turns out to be too much we can talk about a nerf on the %MS. But dear god, not a nerf by 5%.
Phoenix Kotori 1 votes10% is certainly too much for the cost.
Maybe not 5% MS, but I can't see it being more 6-7% MS given the cost.
Andrysek572 votes
isn't problem
is
blfUvZ8Ybu1 votesI agree.Please you don't touch his base stats.
WoonStruck1 votesUdyr making far too good use of them doesn't mean other melees should have to suffer. Nerfing swifties until Udyr doesn't use them well would make them useless for the rest of the cast. Yes, they need a cost increase, but lowering the stats to ineffectiveness does nobody any favors. If Udyr is too fast after RE gets nerfed, they'll probably have to look into lowering his base MS.
RE being powerful on him isn't just RE. Udyr has been over-tuned for a long time. He's a champion that can just brute force things through sheer numbers, since all he does is auto attack with modifiers.
I don't see other champions with up to 100% bonus attack speed permanently and a slew of other on-hit bonuses while permanently having ghost active and a spammable shield as a tank and 6 second CD stun.
Maybe if they took away the phoenix priming on activation, but as it stands his numbers are overloaded for the game's itemization now. Slamurai Jack is not wrong.
DexterousGecko1 votesJust because no one is running hard CC tank comps nowadays doesn't mean Udyr is OP. You can't run 3 ad squishy champs and expect to not get run down by udyr. comon.
Paroe1 votesRuneglaive: 1625g +250 mana +40AP +10%CDR
Spellblade: 100% base AD +30%AP, doubled against large mobs Runic echoes: 1625g +60AP +10% movement speed
Echo: 80+10%AP, times 2.5 against large mobs
Runeglaive was changed because only a handful of mages could actually use it. Mages, the champs the item WAS DESIGNED FOR, have low MS to begin with usually. in the 325 to 335 range. nerfing that would be a HUGE nerf to ALL potential mage junglers. AP udyr has always been very powerful; runic echoes just gives him a logical slot item for the jungle. otherwise he would just get runeglaive and replace it with ludens anyway.
Faceplow1 votesSomething is wrong with a champ when he can basically engage when he wants, pull out when he wants, unkiteable, spam ghost the entire map with no mana issues, twist is abilities non-stop with no mana issues.
He can build any combination of tank/jugg/fighter/ap burst and he honestly sacrifices nothing to any of the builds. He's been a wrecking machine this entire time, for some reason he's just recently gotten to the point of "nearly impossible to deal with."
He's probably the only champ who has no weak points. Even if he gets caught out of position, unless you have some hard CC, he can pull out and you can't catch him.
It's nothing to do with certain items, he's always been crazy good, he's a jack-of-all-trades and has always been. It's just a few champions out perform him in certain metas even though he's just as good, he's just been over looked because of "X champ" does it a little better.