Purple side season 5 jungle imbalance.

UkeNeverSeme·Nov 12, 2014·5 votes·2,535 views

Seeing as smiting wraiths now give oracles, that gives purple side an unfair advantage in the baron vision war, as they will not get seen by wards after getting it, before getting to clear baron vision.

27 Comments

LegendariNov 12, 20146 votes

Ugh... just sounds like more strategies that 90% of the playerbase isn't going to understand. It's hard enough getting people to do things like push a lane other than mid when we already have the inhib, or turn and immediately take an objective after getting a 1-2 player advantage (rather than chasing kills all the way into the enemy base)... and that's really basic stuff.

ValyrianBladeNov 12, 20142 votes

Well blue gets the same edge on Dragon? It's also only the first smite each spawn so blue could just go smite purples wraiths when they're going for vision?

Don't wolves also patrol the area (vision as well? ) and the scuttle crab is neutral and better vision?

It may be an advantage, although didn't blue previously have the advantage on Baron so maybe this evens things out?

UkeNeverSemeNov 12, 20141 votes

Wolves dont clear the wards, and also don't quite go to the baron area. also Dragon isn't as popular a spot for baiting, baiting is a much stronger mechanic over baron, and that means that the vision imbalance will be there.

Counterjungling can be a way out, but jungling is easier than counterjungling :b hence the imbalance

ValyrianBladeNov 12, 20141 votes

Okay, I haven't tried it yet so I don't really know.

Is the crab better vision? Riot made it sounds like the new crab was powerful vision for Baron and Dragon. Can you delete the wraiths vision (is it attackable?). Is it true sight or regular sight (pink or green ward? ).

I watched a pbe video and it looked like the wraiths thing had a very defined cone of vision (and 2 hits to kill): can't you just stay outside of that cone?

Overall though it is early, so maybe if it is unbalanced riot will see this, monitor, and adjust it :)

UkeNeverSemeNov 12, 20141 votes

Wraiths give a 90 second oracles elixir (season 3 esque), crab gives a vision shrine, but as the team who are trying to bait baron will almost always be the strongest, i don't think it's gonna be easygetting that to stop baits :/

ValyrianBladeNov 12, 20142 votes

Oh I misunderstood. An oracles elixir for 90 sec? So can't blue just get one off of their own wraiths before heading towards Baron? I suppose it's more convenient for purple, but access to the Baron pit is easier from Blue's jungle anyways so that kind of evens things out?

GorbacheNov 13, 20141 votes

Wraiths give a 90 second oracles elixir (season 3 esque), crab gives a vision shrine, but as the team who are trying to bait baron will almost always be the strongest, i don't think it's gonna be easygetting that to stop baits :/

It's not 90 seconds though, I was watching Nightblue the other morning and he had time to clear 2 wards and 2 hits off another one (and they were in a line so it doesn't last long).

UkeNeverSemeNov 13, 20142 votes

The buff lasts 90 seconds, but is consumed upon being spotted by a ward, at which point you get oracles for approx 10 seconds, hope that clears things up?

GorbacheNov 14, 20141 votes

The buff lasts 90 seconds, but is consumed upon being spotted by a ward, at which point you get oracles for approx 10 seconds, hope that clears things up?

Cool, thanks for the info!

Acidic PuddleNov 12, 20142 votes

But your forgetting that in Season 5 just how important Dragon is each time it comes up. So maybe blue side actually has the advantage....

Acidic PuddleNov 12, 20144 votes

And if you are baiting baron then you probably will have a little bit of control in their jungle and can take their wraiths, however would u really want to smite wraiths just before baron???

cshakesNov 12, 20141 votes

Double smite meta?

Acidic PuddleNov 13, 20141 votes

But actually a smite on a support would be pretty decent now. It makes good sense.

AMYS GRAVENov 13, 20141 votes

5 smite meta? imagine the instant burst to objectives. with the ability to smite champions smite could replace ignite as the offensive spell of choice.

OnegarionNov 12, 20141 votes

I think he is also forgetting that they are looking into nerfing the baron buff to be more like Vilemaw from TT where its more about regeneration and less about straight damage. Baron won't be the biggest objective as much anymore as 5 drags will be.

If I remember right Baron now helps with regen and gives boosts to minions nearby as well as giving you a faster recall. While Dragon gives you more straight combat stats, but they bounce from offense to defense so I'm not sure where it will lane for good.

JetLightWolfNov 12, 20141 votes

I think he is also forgetting that they are looking into nerfing the baron buff to be more like Vilemaw from TT where its more about regeneration and less about straight damage. Baron won't be the biggest objective as much anymore as 5 drags will be.

If I remember right Baron now helps with regen and gives boosts to minions nearby as well as giving you a faster recall. While Dragon gives you more straight combat stats, but they bounce from offense to defense so I'm not sure where it will lane for good.

Actually they removed the regen from baron and kept the power, it's more of trade off in Pushing power vs straight up fight power, but 5th dragon indeed matches up or even outdoes baron in areas.

OnegarionNov 12, 20141 votes

Ok then i must have flipped them. I knew it got rid of half of what it does on Live and they essentially are putting it on 5th Dragon buff.

RainbowgasmNov 12, 20142 votes

to smite the wraiths means you can't smite baron.

AMYS GRAVENov 13, 20141 votes

multiple smite meta. if you can smite champions it works as an offensive spell and then one champion (support) can claim the wraith buff while the others (mid/adc) claim other buffs to help with the baron take down, and others (jung/top) save it for the burst damage to baron.

MrBuffingtonNov 12, 20141 votes

Blue side has easier access to Top Scuttlecrab, which gives uncounterable vision around Baron, not to mention Blue side has easier access to Baron in the first place, easier to ward and what not (vice versa for Dragon). Honestly, since Dragon becomes just as good if not better than Baron late game (5th dragon or so), things are actually looking more even than they were before.

SmokingPuffinNov 12, 20141 votes

Not too worried. Blue side has been stronger because of superior baron geometry for quite some time now. Giving purple easier access to a vision tool to fight back against that strikes me as unlikely to tip the scales.

WheatloafNov 12, 20141 votes

The buff can only be gained once per spawn of the camp, and it only works for the first ward it sees. Crisis averted.

AMYS GRAVENov 13, 20141 votes

Blue side gets it for the dragon pit, so they get that added control which will be more important earlier in the game. With the changes to dragon i feel this will balance out quite nicely.

UkeNeverSemeNov 13, 20141 votes

The dragon pit is a worse baiting spot because it's more difficult early to instagib people like it is later with baron baits. Also people have less incentitive to check, because it's not as much worth, so often people will just try push an outer turret and give up drake. (particularly not with the dragon changes, only the 1st, and 5th dragons are important)

AMYS GRAVENov 13, 20141 votes

if the fifth dragon is important then 2-4 are important to get there. the dragon control will be a much bigger part of the game once the changes occur, balancing out baron control with dragon control.

Bears Dont CareNov 13, 20141 votes

You cannot smite other champions unless you get the appropriate jungle items. So if you want to smite another champ, you need the challenger's blade and the skirmisher's blade as well, both of which require building from a jungle machete and wouldn't be worth it for most champs.

AMYS GRAVENov 13, 20141 votes

i didn't realize this, this will make smiting champions much more manageable to balance for sure :)