Similarly to how people can pick a secondary position fill players should be able to pick a role they suck the most at and not get it (or at least get it very seldom), imo this would help queue times since more people might queue as fill, and also I wouldn't feed top lane any more :D
Which would make my teammates happy. Peace!
Edit: EVERYONE. I'm not talking about autofill, im talking about people queueing as fill ;) cheers.
420 grams15 votes
UkeNeverSeme7 votesDude I'm talking about people queueing as fill; if you don't play support a lot you dont queue as fill. So i think you're totally misunderstanding something.
Ale non è male5 votesDude I'm talking about people queueing as fill; if you don't play support a lot you dont queue as fill. So i think you're totally misunderstanding something.
He understood well. The idea has been tested, and most people were choosing support as role to discard. People just wanted to game the system by getting shorter queue timers through fill selection without having the real intention to fill, or just got tired of playing support after few times in a row of getting support role with fill and started to exclude it.
The problem with fill is not the system which is fine, it is with people that are in general biased against support role (often without even having tried to play it), so the current fill system even if not perfect, is the only one viable to allow people to choose other roles
P.S. I usually use fill option, and I am noticing that I am currently playing less times as support than what previously happened, where it was almost 100% guaranteed to get support. Either autofill is enabled more often or there are more people trying to abuse mage(or MF) support, so that there are more people queueing for support
Woodakoodashooda25 votesWRONG!
If I were allowed this option, I would opt out of ADC
Every
damn
time.
Because if my team really wants to lose the game so badly then go ahead, fill me as the ADC.
Gibberwatt2 votesactually same
Cowseed2 votesexactly what i say
ArbiterOfTruth3 votes[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8KpE4vtL,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-03-13T00:43:32.732+0000)
WRONG!
If I were allowed this option, I would opt out of ADC
Every
damn
time.
Because if my team really wants to lose the game so badly then go ahead, fill me as the ADC.
Same for me except top. No champs that can go top appeal to me and I'm not good with the few I kind of like.
Xonra12 votesToo bad 1 person doesn't matter. They already suggested it in 2016, tested it out, and it was overwhelming with support being the "don't want this" choice. To the point they just stopped the test and went "whelp nevermind, guess we should have seen that coming".
SanKakU5 votesThere was never a need to test it. Just make a poll. And besides, even if by itself, it doesn't fix any problems, the current state of autofill couldn't be any worse by adding this feature. If we pick fill, for crying out loud, it doesn't make sense why we can't choose one role not to play. And besides, even if it's once every 3 or 4 games or so, if a player will choose fill on purpose only because it guarantees that they won't be autofilled into the one slot they don't want, it means they will use it at least a little bit.
SanKakU4 votesAnd I would opt out of Top because I don't get enough practice with Top as it is.
Mody bird2 votesTell me how often you get autofilled top lol
SanKakU1 votesI never get autofilled because I'm always filling.
UkeNeverSeme1 votesActually played 4 fill games the other night; 2 top, 1 supp, 1 jng.
So. Yea..
Mody bird1 votesAutofilling adc rarely rarely happens, 95% of times its support
Blazingflares1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8KpE4vtL,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-03-13T00:43:32.732+0000)
WRONG!
If I were allowed this option, I would opt out of ADC
Every
damn
time.
Because if my team really wants to lose the game so badly then go ahead, fill me as the ADC.
this is pretty much me :U
Salron2 votesHow would that increase queue times It's mostly support mains that play support BUT
people that normally queue for something like top/mid could now queue fill/not support instead of matchmaking potentially puttin that person into 1 of 2 roles, they can now fill the spot of any of 4 roles This can only improve matchmaking
FilDaFunk1 votes[{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8KpE4vtL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-13T00:34:34.880+0000)
- every body picks that they don't want support
- que times increase
- the whole concept of auto fill is ruined
No reason to include support in that pick.
Xonra10 votesYeah, they already tested it. All anyone ever did was choose "not support" and that was that.
It was probably even worse than autofill because then even less people played support.
BLACK REALM GOD8 votesthey might have tested it with auto fill, but did they test it with manual fill? nooooo :P would have made a great addition for those that like to manually fill.
all they'd have to do is every other game negate the least preferred role.
Dethflash4 votesGreat idea, sometimes i don't care to much where i go as long as its not adc. I would pick fill a lot more if i could exclude a single role i don't feel like playing at the time
bwop3 votesIf we didn't have autofill, everyone would be fighting for the one person who picked support. Now imagine waiting almost 50 min to enter a match in draft. Now imagine everyone playing in blind pick and custom games and v. AIs from the insanity of waiting. Now imagine draft pick being labled as the worst game mode ever. Now imagine Ranked Blind Pick being a thing now. Now imagine the majority of NA players playing in customs now because of the horrors of blind pick. Now you can imagine League of Legends having a Story Mode to play because you picked a certain champion, and it will be based on their lore.
This is what would happen if we didn't have autofill, because everybody wants a support, but they don't want to be support.
ChargeItDownMid4 votes[deleted]
bwop1 votesHuh, I never knew that.
ChargeItDownMid3 votes[deleted]
Ale non è male2 votesIn that case, here is another fun fact: the change which introduced autofill increased the queue times for players under plat.
That's false, it just impact more higher level players because player population at High elo is smaller, so queue timers are much more tied to the amount of people available in the least requested role (which at High elo isn't always necessario support, depending on the server and time of the day), while in lower elo the difference in MMR is smaller
The mid/support split example you did in the previous post is also very bad, because it shows that back then the system was weighted too much towards speeding up queue times rather than towards ensuring that players could get their primary role a significant amount of time, so even if you selected mid as primary, you landed there only 20% of the time, which is not acceptable if the system is aimed at having a primary and secondary role selections. If anything, autofill allowed to tune the system towards assuring people could get their primary role more often, as long as autofill is not permanently forced in, since it represent a safety net to guarantee games to start at a certain point.
Your calculations and assumptions are/were wrong, way less than 20% of population selected support to have that kind of mid/supporta splits, because if what you said was true, the splits should have been way closer to 50/50, and fill should have not given almost every time support as result, as the system had to dig into every person that picked fill or support as one of the primary/secondary option TO REACH 20% of the population, the number necessary to start a game, at the cost of basically discarding the primary role thing for mid lane population willing to at times play as support
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
Ale non è male2 votesLook at the graph, queue times increased below diamond with those set of changes.
Also, you need to redo your math. If less than 20% of the population selected fill or support as their primary or secondary, then 100% of all players who selected fill or support as one of their roles would have been forced into the support role to balance out the math.
I guess you missed THIS PART
You'll notice that queue times for everyone under Diamond tier have actually gone up slightly. This has nothing to do with our tuning of the autofill feature. Instead, this is a trade-off we're making to increase the likelihood you'll receive your primary role in champ select. Regardless of your ranking, you should have a better chance to get your primary position.
It is not autofill, it is the retune of queue algorithm towards allowing people to get more often their primary role that caused the increase in queue timers, and they were able to do that tuning and give to the people the role they wanted more often BECAUSE with the autofill safety net allowed them to do it so
YOU need to redo the math. There have always been a percentage of people that queued as primary support, so there was obvious no need to force 100% of people that selected support as secondary as support. Still, they had to dig into the player pool that selected fill or support as secondary a big majority percentage of times to get to that 20% of population needed, and that's why 80%+ of mid primary/support secondary was forced on support
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
Ale non è male1 votesBoth changes came bundled together. The point is that autofill is completely unneeded and both changes can be reverted without adversely effecting queue times.
The queue tuning that allowed people to get more often primary role was SUBORDINATE to having autofill, because otherwise you couldn't make game start fast enough The changes can be technically reverted, but at the cost of being forced to play secondary role more often AND force anyone that queue as X/support to go support with the previous percentages which is...well...not something community wanted?
Also, there was nothing wrong with my math, you just completely missed the point. the percentage of players who queue support as either primary or secondary mathematically must be larger than 20% in order to get the numbers riot released and therefore autofill is completely unneeded.
Nope, you completely had a brain fart. The queue is not made only by players that are able to start the game, but also by the ones that are waiting. When you complete the condition for 10 players to match-up each other, 10 people go out of the queue and enter a game, but the other remain in. The percentage of players that queue as support primary are so much lower than 20% that the system must force everyone that pick fill or secondary support to be placed as support to the point that in the original graph mid/support players got primary role that should be weighted more less than 20% of the time and a relevant part of mid, adc plus the almost entirety of fill population was tunnelled into support TO REACH 20% of the population needed to start - not overall - , and you still had to wait to get high enough into queue priority to be the first served when condition are filled to make you be able to start the game
Oleandervine1 votesIn that case, here is another fun fact: the change which introduced autofill increased the queue times for players under plat.
Fun fact, queue times increased when role selection became a thing. Back when people had to know how to play all roles and deal with pick order, queue times were astronomically low.
Quepha1 votesThat is actually completely false. Far more than 20% of the ranked playerbase plays support as either their primary or secondary. Back when autofill was initially added, riot posted the pre and post autofill split for primary and secondary roles. Even before autofill was added, the worse primary/secondary split was mid/support which got put into support 80% of games. That means that mathematically, there had to be significantly more than 20% of the playerbase who picked support as either their primary or secondary role.
You're going to need to show your math on this one. Here's my analysis:
Mid/Support players queue up for games. They get into games. 80% of the time as support, 20% of the time as mid. Each game has 4 other players on their team. So at least 20% of the time at least one of those players had Support either as primary or secondary, or an average of 1 in 5 games In 5 games they encounter (4 * 5 =) 20 teammates So the bare minimum of players they encounter with Support as one of their roles was actually an average of 1 in 20 players, or 5% of the players they encountered.
That's 1/4 of your estimate for the minimum.
ChargeItDownMid1 votes[deleted]
Dolasaur1 votesNot following your math here, since there's so many unknowns.
For a first point, you don't even need 20% of people going sup/?, ?/sup, fill, or ?/fill in order to create full games. People that don't fall into those categories could just have longer wait times. That could translate into the sup/? etc. group getting more games in than people that queue non-sup1/non-sup2. And it could be that the ones that are sup/? and fill primary have even more games than the ?/sup and ?/fill ones. I don't ever remember Riot releasing data on relative queue times per role declaration. From my personal experience in Team Builder, I wouldn't be surprised if queue time for Fill and Support primary was significantly lower than for Mid/Jun players.
For a second point, Fill is a huge unknown here. I don't remember Riot ever releasing numbers on what roles Fill or ?/Fill players got what percent of the time. General consensus is that queuing Fill primary is going to get you support 50% of the time or more. (Lots of people say 100% as a joke, but from the experience of myself and others I've talked to, it's usually somewhere 50% < X < 90%, depending on the person.)
If Fill didn't exist and all players (per role declaration) had equal queue times and played an equal number of games per unit time, then I'd be able to say the number of sup/? and ?/sup queuers was >= 20%. But as it is, I need a lot more details to believe your statement that "mathematically, there had to be significantly more than 20% of the playerbase who picked support as either their primary or secondary role."
Edit: Plus the final sentences in the "first point" paragraph.
Mysticman893 votesThey actually tested this already, and found they weren't happy with the resulting impact on queue times, and so scrapped it.
DarkRitual3 votesGood on paper, bad in practice.
However, if you made it so you can't exclude "Support" it might be able to work. Otherwise it's basically no change from what we have now, just people more likely to be autofilled into support.
SanKakU2 votesWhile I disagree with your opinion, your suggestion of disabling excluding support isn't a terrible one. It's worth trying out I think. We should do something as the game has never been more toxic currently. I play ARAM off and on now to get away from the chaotic nature of Summoners Rift.
Skins Project1 votesI wouldn't say exclude support.. (This WOULD be heavy on the servers) But rather you can't exclude whatever is currently he most needed role. IE 20 people in q without adc as any chosen role. ADC cannot be blocked.
DarkRitual1 votesSupport is 99.9999999% (not completely accurate figure) the most needed role, so it's really not much of a difference.
abbbez2 votesNo just no, learn to play every role once in a while.
Kelly K1 votesAnd let people choose "Not support"? How about play that fill role for that one game and play your main role/secondary it really isn't that hard lol.
Yaśuo Main1 votes" Im gonna be taking cs because adcs are useless without CS"
A post made by an idiot not too long ago, they thought if the 2 "adcs" shared cs they would still be viable in the game, even though they'd both be terrible.
Linna Excel1 votesAll of them choose support and then wonder why queue times are so long.
Mostro Gallo1 votesHonestly I'd probably choose "not ADC." I'd much rather support.
ADCing with a bad support is a nightmare; but a support can definitely carry a bad ADC
50000000000000001 voteshttp://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yGhtFrbV-if-fill-except-became-an-option-which-role-would-you-opt-out-of (it'd be nice if you could edit in this link in your main post. It's a poll about the thread)
winteriscoming971 votesNo, the reason we need auto is because everyone would exclude support.
JuhnChan1 votesI've been asking for this since day one and on multiple occasions.
Nothing so far. Hopefully they are just chilling until new client.
Oelyk1 votesThen everyone who was not a support player would pick support and queue times would rocket.
FakeGravity1 votesthat moment when you can go support and fill, and get support 99% of the time as support main, but it does suck to be stuck in a game with ppl that get roles they dont want, even if you take support there's always that jungler than wanted top, and that ADC that have no idea of how to farm, i sometimes wonder if i should take ADC instead and do my best and risk an auto fill support to make impossible to play, or stay support and wait for a good adc
Blue Kaozi1 votesI'd opt out of jungle. I wish they would let you pick top 3 instead of top 2