By this I mean the fact that the heal and movespeed proc off of minions. Why is that much sustain and move speed allowed for free? It should only proc on champion hits imo. At the very least the heal should only proc on champion hits.
Almost all other runes only proc on champion hits. Why is Fleet Footwork different?
Warlord Rhinark2 votesThere'd be almost no reason to pick it, then.
VoraciousX1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rhNE14Wq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-05T10:07:30.541+0000)
There'd be almost no reason to pick it, then.
They could buff the heal and move speed back to it's original value? I'd be fine with it if it wasn't a "do nothing but farm and heal up all game while taking almost no damage" rune. Also generally the movement speed is the main reason I would originally pick it. Champions like Yasuo used to use it to gapclose, as have other champions. That's what, imo, it should be used for, not just staying in lane and never leaving.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThey could buff the heal and move speed back to it's original value? I'd be fine with it if it wasn't a "do nothing but farm and heal up all game while taking almost no damage" rune. Also generally the movement speed is the main reason I would originally pick it. Champions like Yasuo used to use it to gapclose, as have other champions. That's what, imo, it should be used for, not just staying in lane and never leaving.
You have a point, I just fail to see how "Hit enemy champion once, heal for a shit ton and run away at the speed of sound" is more interactive than just staying in lane and healing off of minions.
VoraciousX1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rhNE14Wq,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T10:27:12.370+0000)
You have a point, I just fail to see how "Hit enemy champion once, heal for a shit ton and run away at the speed of sound" is more interactive than just staying in lane and healing off of minions.
Wouldn't really be THAT much. I'd expect it to be much less since it'd only work on champions, and if you can expend the stack on minions to get the movespeed you'd be using up your charges so you couldn't heal if you traded with an enemy champion.
My idea of the rune: At 100 stacks if you attack an enemy minion you gain move speed, if you attack an enemy champion you gain move speed and heal. At the original values I'd feel like this would be a much better option than the current "stay in lane all day" style of the rune. If they brought the values back to the original ones I think it'd be a fine power shift.
saltran2 votesThat would be really good on long aa range adcs and terrible for the short range adcs that take FleetF to not be murdered on lane fase that hard.
VoraciousX2 votesThat would be really good on long aa range adcs and terrible for the short range adcs that take FleetF to not be murdered on lane fase that hard.
I would expect ADCs who are worried about being murdered to have a healing or shielding support instead of focusing on having a solution for ADCs themselves to ignore their weaknesses of being short ranged. Also it's the short range ADCs currently who are excelling is it not? Besides I've always expected Footwork to be a kiting tool first and foremost. The healing should take a backseat.
OtterlyLost2 votesI'm sorry ADCs expected to have even the minutest control over their own laning phase. Lemme just go kiss my supports ass more so maybe they'll play a heal and shield champ so I have the barest minimum hope of surviving against bully lanes like Lucian, MF, and Draven. [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Your solution is literally to have ADCs force another player to cover up for their weak laning phase instead of just letting them have something to support themselves with. That is honestly shit thinking and not fair to anyone. Furthermore, taking fleet is already giving up something else; I would much rather take more damage or more AS on my ADCs but sometimes you have to sacrifice when you're Tristana into a Draven/Brand lane.
VoraciousX1 votesI'm sorry ADCs expected to have even the minutest control over their own laning phase. Lemme just go kiss my supports ass more so maybe they'll play a heal and shield champ so I have the barest minimum hope of surviving against bully lanes like Lucian, MF, and Draven. [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Your solution is literally to have ADCs force another player to cover up for their weak laning phase instead of just letting them have something to support themselves with. That is honestly shit thinking and not fair to anyone. Furthermore, taking fleet is already giving up something else; I would much rather take more damage or more AS on my ADCs but sometimes you have to sacrifice when you're Tristana into a Draven/Brand lane.
You get 26% or 28%(can't remember which) attack speed already just by taking Alacrity and having precision as your main tree(that's a full page of attack speed marks AND quints in the old system), having both sustain supports AND fleet footwork just makes it so you never die, and most immobile ADCs who use runes would much rather use Fleet for the kiting anyways. Also champions who have weak laning phases have insanely strong late games. Why should they be able to cover up their weak laning phase by themselves at all, especially when they also have someone else to cover up their problems?
You are aware that it's either for immobile champions who want to use it for healing and kiting in teamfights and champions who have weak laning phases and use it to try and survive, right?
Furthermore, it's been nerfed multiple times already. Why continue to nerf a balanced to slightly weak keystone?
The only champions who use it for weak laning phases are ADCs because they can just sit there and proc it without doing anything risky. In fact, the only champions who use it for the most part at all are ADCs. I also said that reverting the nerfs would be totally fine if this change were to take effect. Or are you hoping to just gloss over that to make it seem reasonable to argue against? It should be used for kiting primarily, not secondarily. It's called Fleet Footwork. The heal should only be procced on champions. Otherwise you have ADCs with weak laning phases taking trades, backing up, and then healing all their damage back while the enemy team who didn't take it just got screwed over despite fighting a trade they otherwise would have won. Add a healing support on top of that and it'd likely be no contest who would win bot lane. I mean, we could remove this, or the ability for supports to heal, because it doesn't make sense to have too much of a good thing imo.
OtterlyLost1 votesNo most immobile ADCs would much rather use PTA or Lethal Tempo; Ashe and Twitch both prefer to take that but sometimes take fleet footwork into hard match ups. As does Kog'maw and Varus. All of them would rather have Lethal Tempo that gives extra bonus attack speed that specifically allows you to break the AS Cap over a rune that just provides heals instead of damage.
And considering the most popular supports currently are AP mages and Alistar, none of them are going to cover up your weakness in lane. Again, why should they expect another player to opt out of playing a support they actually want to play and might be good at just so they can have a Sona, Nami, or Soraka for extra sustain through a bad lane?
And no, the only champs that use it for weak lane phases are not ADCs. There are a handful of AP champions who do as well; Kassadin, Viktor, TF, Teemo. They can all use it and have, historically. Sejuani for a brief stint also used it in the jungle to have healthier clears and access to the much needed AS.
If it only healed on champions, it would literally go from being a defensive option for many champions into never touched at all. No one just wants MS when they hit a minion. I can't think of a single champion who would use that seriously. With the exception of long ranged, aggressive ADCS who don't really need the lane sustain. Draven or Cait or MF would be fucking absurd with your version of the rune.
So I ask you again, Why would you outright nerf a keystone that is already balanced or even slightly weak?
VoraciousX1 votesNo most immobile ADCs would much rather use PTA or Lethal Tempo; Ashe and Twitch both prefer to take that but sometimes take fleet footwork into hard match ups. As does Kog'maw and Varus. All of them would rather have Lethal Tempo that gives extra bonus attack speed that specifically allows you to break the AS Cap over a rune that just provides heals instead of damage.
And considering the most popular supports currently are AP mages and Alistar, none of them are going to cover up your weakness in lane. Again, why should they expect another player to opt out of playing a support they actually want to play and might be good at just so they can have a Sona, Nami, or Soraka for extra sustain through a bad lane?
And no, the only champs that use it for weak lane phases are not ADCs. There are a handful of AP champions who do as well; Kassadin, Viktor, TF, Teemo. They can all use it and have, historically. Sejuani for a brief stint also used it in the jungle to have healthier clears and access to the much needed AS.
If it only healed on champions, it would literally go from being a defensive option for many champions into never touched at all. No one just wants MS when they hit a minion. I can't think of a single champion who would use that seriously. With the exception of long ranged, aggressive ADCS who don't really need the lane sustain. Draven or Cait or MF would be fucking absurd with your version of the rune.
So I ask you again, Why would you outright nerf a keystone that is already balanced or even slightly weak?
It's definitely not weak now(Hell Kai'Sa is one of the top ADCs and uses it primarily), and the kiting is EXTREMELY valuable. Also afaik TF takes Grasp into hard matchups, not Fleet. Teemo would take Fleet because of the kiting, not the heal, Kassadin and Viktor as well. The heal is only a side effect for those champions, the mobility they gain from it is far more useful to them. Kassadin wants to be in your face and the mobility from fleet helps with that, Teemo wants to kite(although again, grasp is his most common current keystone and fleet isn't even registered on there), and Viktor, well I don't see enough of him to even see him using Fleet. But out of your list the only ones who even have a page listed for fleet footwork at all are Viktor and Kassadin.
The healing only being used against champions would force them to interact with each other. Uninteractive lanes are things everyone complains about. Also again, you're claiming it's an outright nerf, when I said it could revert every single nerf it ever got hit with if it went back to this. As for saying that it becoming rune only for long ranged champions would be downright wrong. If you could make use of the movement speed from fleet after attacking, you'd likely heal back the damage you took from a trade. If ADCs have a problem with matchups in the bot lane, they could take the one rune actually DESIGNED AS A DEFENSIVE SUSTAIN OPTION like Grasp. Other ranged champions use it as I have mentioned, so why not ADCs?
OtterlyLost2 votesYou are aware that it's either for immobile champions who want to use it for healing and kiting in teamfights and champions who have weak laning phases and use it to try and survive, right?
Furthermore, it's been nerfed multiple times already. Why continue to nerf a balanced to slightly weak keystone?
Sir Prepuzius2 votesi swear you guys just want to complain about everything
Khristophoros2 votesBecause it deals literally 0 damage.