@ community on nerfs and buffs

Kai Guy·Mar 7, 2018·1 votes·236 views

I would like to know your views folks, Do you like the recent pattern of large buff/nerf then a compensation a patch or so after? Did you pref the old smaller tuning buffs/nerfs over several patches? Are you like me who thinks outliers should get big changes but fine tuning it is ideal when champs close to healthy spots? Or Do you think there's a better way?

I gave a pretty wide range of vote options, if ya want to discuss with me or others go for it. Please however, reserve downvotes for low quality posts not disagreements in opinion lets avoid the echo chamber we some times see, also if you would be so kind take a brief moment to see if some one else has touched on what you wanted to say and participate in that conversation.

8 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerMar 7, 20181 votes

I'd prefer it if they stuck with smaller changes, unless they know with more certainty that the large changes will be ok (or if it's like a rework obviously). The recent trend of "big nerfs, fix them in two weeks" isn't something I like, as I believe that every champion should be balanced, not overpowered, but especially not trashed.

Kai GuyMar 8, 20181 votes

So personally I think that big nerf fix in 2 weeks started as a direct response to all the tilt over small slow balance adjustments. Despite the fact I personally look forward in time blocks of months many Lol players seem to want results in days to a week (hotfix this NOW!)

What do you think is responsible for it seemingly becoming a trend?

JarodDempseyMar 7, 20181 votes

It really only makes people hate riot more by making large changes on non-reworks and then reverting or making more changes when the initial changes inevitably dont work.

Kai GuyMar 8, 20181 votes

On the flip side small nerfs also generate a lot of hate as well. "JOKE NERFS, This nerf is a meme rito!" etc. Is small and steady really the best way to go? I personally go to the case by case.

Edit, here an example of what I'm talking about. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1ZfTbpUi-ahahahahah-you-call-that-a-nerf-d

DrLuauMar 7, 20181 votes

Smaller changes more frequently would be useful, but Riot can only make changes as good as they understand the problems. Top lane is a good example of the community telling riot what they want, in some cases what specific things to do, and riot doing whatever they feel like. More on topic, when riot commits to a design philosophy of bigger changes, they're committing a lot more time and dev effort into the game and when riot misses the mark it's a whole lot of time wasted.

Take Riot's focus on Lissandra and Quinn as emblematic of this problem: Nobody outside of their mains community gives a crap about either of those champions, meanwhile player favorites are languishing alongside these unpopular champions in "borderline troll pick" territory. And yet Meddler put forth basically an entire Gameplay Thoughts to Making Quinn Great Again. Who cares? Why can't Riot respond to player interest?

Kai GuyMar 8, 20181 votes

Thing is, this community telling riot bit is pretty hazy. There are plenty who way top is weak, or top feels bad, theres also a frequent board poster who 1 tricks shaco who has made BRUISERS AND TOP OP posts for almost 1 year now, and theres others who share his opinion.

Part of the reason I'm making an effort to create my posts in a poll format and encourage civil disagreements is I really want to try to build and show community consensus. I hope to encourage folks to participate with out letting their opinion instantly override others. I don't think we on the boards present a positive or well thought out argument frequently enough that riot can or should take it seriously.

I don't think balancing to enforce a meta around what's popular or "player favorite" is a healthy stance for them to take. You answered your last two questions in your last paragraph. ". Who cares? Why can't Riot respond to player interest?" their mains care, their mains are players, the changes are of interest to them. Trying to provide viability for the champ pool is always good, if quin becomes strong she will become fotm and will become one of those popular champions same for liss. Liss has had moments in the meta where she has been a popular pick, so an argument exists that she languished as a borderline troll pick to long that her popularity faded to near nothing.

I feel its a shame but a lot of lol players only follow metas, they copy and paste others playstyle and personally I find that unfun.

Anyhow thanks for participating, if i don't hear back from you i hope ya have a great day.

DrLuauMar 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=raUiEE4M,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-03-08T00:19:34.854+0000)

Thing is, this community telling riot bit is pretty hazy. There are plenty who way top is weak, or top feels bad, theres also a frequent board poster who 1 tricks shaco who has made BRUISERS AND TOP OP posts for almost 1 year now, and theres others who share his opinion.

Part of the reason I'm making an effort to create my posts in a poll format and encourage civil disagreements is I really want to try to build and show community consensus. I hope to encourage folks to participate with out letting their opinion instantly override others. I don't think we on the boards present a positive or well thought out argument frequently enough that riot can or should take it seriously.

I don't think balancing to enforce a meta around what's popular or "player favorite" is a healthy stance for them to take. You answered your last two questions in your last paragraph. ". Who cares? Why can't Riot respond to player interest?" their mains care, their mains are players, the changes are of interest to them. Trying to provide viability for the champ pool is always good, if quin becomes strong she will become fotm and will become one of those popular champions same for liss. Liss has had moments in the meta where she has been a popular pick, so an argument exists that she languished as a borderline troll pick to long that her popularity faded to near nothing.

I feel its a shame but a lot of lol players only follow metas, they copy and paste others playstyle and personally I find that unfun.

Anyhow thanks for participating, if i don't hear back from you i hope ya have a great day.

I'm not saying balancing should enforce a meta around popular picks, but riot should put some effort into giving some buffs to popular or fan-favorite champs who are getting powercreeped (Renekton and Garen and Viktor are good examples.) Champs who are popular and non-toxic (Ezreal's a good example of a non-toxic Marksman, even though Marksmen as a role are unhealthy for the game) should be at least usable in every meta, if only to leaven out the unhealthier elements present in a given meta.

Kai GuyMar 8, 20181 votes

We are already running into disagreements. I don't think marksmen as a role are unhealthy, I feel mobas need their item baised late game carry, whats unhealthy is how quickly they get to that currently, not the class. EZ is not really a great example as many seasons he has been best in class and annoyingly strong and far to safe. Jungle,lizzard,bluebuild,Klepto, Plenty of times his kit allowed for him to be uniquely abusive that I don't find him to be non toxic, the only consolation is that its a skill shot. That being said many players do not view EZ as a healthy kit and I am one of them.

Vikts been up for some love recently, Rene as well thou I doubt he will be strong any time soon. I don't mind Garren being mostly Viable in lower elo because league needs some champions who teach mechanics and have low floors for newer or less skilled players. Not every one should be good in all mmrs.

A main is a fan of their champ, that champ thus has fans, and is a fans favorite. Popularity aside there's no reason they cant work on multiple champions.Id rather them use internal data and hit problems where they see them then strive to please popular opinion, and I just don't see how if they focus lopsidedly on popular champions it would not in turn make the game a meta around popular champions as the niche picks would be getting neglected and remain covered in dust.

I think we may need to agree to be in disagreement on this issue mate, sound fair?