Honestly, the playerbase trys to enforce a meta more then riot does.

Kai Guy··41 votes·13,865 views

Disagree? Play something "off meta." Watch your teammates reactions. I play Pyke with Glacial augmentation ranked. Get stupid amounts tilt for it. Im sitting at over 60% win rate but nah my top decides he hates Pyke support for not being a "real support" So he does stuff like Teleport into enemy tower under 3 champions and instantly dies. Uses his ulti to get into fights solo. dies. Entire game flames and rages about my pick and that I deserve to lose. This trend is for pretty much anything you wanna run if its not standard champions or stuff not seen in pro play and streams.

Don't get me wrong, the biweekly patches have a huge impact on what is or is not viable, but the players are the ones who choose to dick you over for not going standard picks or builds.

48 Comments

Marshbouy21 votes

I never cease to hate the people who do stuff like feed, AFK, or troll because someone picked something they didn't like or did poorly in game.

"Because we might have a higher chance of losing I'm gonna make us lose!"

Kai Guy3 votes

I gave up FB so its GG so im going to feed now. This is the junglers/mid/supports fault not mine.

EkyonKun10 votes

{quoted}

I never cease to hate the people who do stuff like feed, AFK, or troll because someone picked something they didn't like or did poorly in game.

"Because we might have a higher chance of losing I'm gonna make us lose!"

I've never understood this mentality. Queue up for ranked, see someone pick or do something that isn't engraved in the current meta, and either flame or troll the whole game over it.

Bit of a story, but I was playing Annie Top (Do it all the time) and we had a Skarner jg who at the start said "Annie top? seriously?" or something to that effect. I told him I do it all the time. So later he ganks for me around level 2-3. I didn't have stun at the time so I do what I can, but naturally they get away. So after this, he just says in all caps "HOLY SHIT THIS ANNIE IS FUCKING USELESS" and for the next 15 minutes just berates and harasses me with shit like "ANNIE TOP LMFAO" or "USELESS TOP GG" so I roll my eyes and watch him do nothing productive while I'm killing my enemy laner, take first tower gold solo, go help mid, go help bot, and eventually end up winning after a drawn out 45 minute game. I never did get an apology or even an admission of wrongness.

Funny how quickly meta slaves will harass you for picking something unconventional, and how they suddenly go silent when it actually works. (Sometimes they don't do the latter...)

LordGeovanni1 votes

The mentality is that they save time by making you think the game is unwinable so they can surrender and move to the next game faster. They are right most people do surrender thus it is getting them what they want.

Automated Riven2 votes

That logic always puzzled me as well. But people have been doing it for all the years I have played this game.

The Space Cowboy1 votes

I’m pretty sure they are positive the game can’t be won. They truely believe skill isn’t a part of the game (unless it’s their godlike abilities). I believe this stems from an insecurity about their own agency and the narcissism of not wanting a loss to be their fault. So if they aren’t guaranteed a win they will throw so that they can shrug off the loss since they were just trolling. This is the same cause for people forfeiting over first blood. Nobody wants to put their ego on the line for a gg.

YokoNomi13 votes

"Honestly, the player base tries to enforce a meta more then riot does."

That technically has never not been the case. Even if Riot is indirect or direct about their influence, the player base has always been the main influence to our own mayhem.

Kai Guy6 votes

I agree. Hell I was around at a time folks would bitch at you for not following a top rated Moba fire guide or a Tier list, now they bitch if you don't follow pro play or high elo streamers.

Just want to open a conversation about player to player behavior and see if we can break up the mindset that META IS GOD for winning and lower some of the toxicity off meta folks receive. This is something I want selfishly cuz im blatantly an off meta player and have been for years.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lmfzAPYo,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-30T23:07:55.043+0000)

I agree. Hell I was around at a time folks would bitch at you for not following a top rated Moba fire guide or a Tier list, now they bitch if you don't follow pro play or high elo streamers.

Just want to open a conversation about player to player behavior and see if we can break up the mindset that META IS GOD for winning and lower some of the toxicity off meta folks receive. This is something I want selfishly cuz im blatantly an off meta player and have been for years.

I find a lot of players that complain about meta don't even follow the actual meta and just want to sound like they know the game as a bronze V or w/e. Like they are so ignorant they cannot comprehend the most basic mechanics of the game or even properly rune.

And let's be real: the meta isn't about champions. It's taking a runeset and item build that's efficient with the champion. Am I saying that this season is actually more skill based outside of the fed hypercarry/assassin? Yeah. But matchmaking is screwy as hell and people will lose games for people who should be climbing because there's people who shouldn't be playing ranked at all flooding low elo at times. And for that I'm glad that games are shorter.

BeatzBoyFTW10 votes

Plays Pyke Support with Glacial Augment. "Don't play that, or I'll report you!"

Pyke Support with Glacial Augment gets played in LCL, LCK & LCS. "Can I play Pyke Support? Teehee"


They're just waiting for pro-players to make it legit.

rtbf2216514122 votes

{quoted}

Plays Pyke Support with Glacial Augment. "Don't play that, or I'll report you!"

I'd do it anyway.

Frozen Mallet too expensive for my tastes. Not really the stats I'm looking for either.

MetalGearTeemo1 votes

True fun is Glacial Augment Garen rushing Righteous and Randuins.

Come, Let us cuddle in the icy fields of death.

Solargeo5 votes

this is why i like playing aram

ChargeItDownMid3 votes

[deleted]

Kai Guy6 votes

I feel parts of the community desire to try new stuff, Parts always look to break the game, hell parts of the community understand that when something becomes FOTM their best way to increase their win rate is to become Fucking awesome at what ever counters what FOTM.

I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect to say that community is breaking the game with new patches consistently, yet that the games specifically balanced to prevent this. I also want to point out that I mentioned how folks are unwilling to embrace anything that is not broadcast to them by streamers/pros, I did admit I did not specifically account for youtubers in this but a popular YouTube channel functions the similar to a Stream for as long as its content is relevant to the current patch. E.A if some one not viewed as an authority figure does not say its good then most players assume its bad.

I can offer my personal experience as a player who embraces off meta builds and champions as an experience that's very frequently negative in the reactions teammates give you, your options are to be the very best player on your team or get flame if your team is losing regardless of your impact or fault. Hell even when your doing the best, folks will still lay blame at your feet for not playing some one "better and meta" I can go back to this attitude showing up with me as a player as far as season 2. It still happens today, and as a player I have experienced it every single year in-between.

Look I can deal with the correctly placed anger when my decisions cost my team, when I fuck up, when I make bad calls, when I hurt our ability to win. But when im doing better in every measurable way then a majority of my team but get blamed for the loss for going off meta, or even worse when some one gives up and says GG FF I DONT CARE WE CANT WIN and feeds the entire god dam game because they disagreed with a pick, rune, or build. I hate that attitude, That's OBEY THE TIERS OR ELSE. And that's on players.

I jungled poppy and karthus pretty well early seasons, I destroyed folks with AP trist. I ran swain mid when everybody thought he was a troll pick in early seasons. I built Mejais on Champions befor it was accepted as viable, I still pick it up on Nami to this day and get tilt over it. I obliterated top with Jayce on release when everbody was acting like he was garbage cuz his R was clunky in the swap. I ran Velkoz as a support that got hate till korea did it. I like bard on release, I started running ZZROT on him and BOTRK and got to plat for consecutive years simply because I could do well with that before folks though hey ZZrots not a bad item, I like pyke with a built in slow and going into AD with out stacking lethality, I love the recent Eve rework and found it to be strong even with QQ WTF threads popping up every day, I took and still take Flack for saying that her R is usable as mobility situationally to the point I just made a play list of youtube vids to literally show how it can be usefully to her as a mechanic. Folks bitched about Jhin when I built item 3072 on him, also managed to use that built to grind to plat. Folks bitched about AurelionSol and Taliyah till they saw pro play. Folks Hated on Azir till the shuffle mechanic was public knowlage.

I am really really going to have a hard time believing that a high # of the community is cool with off meta, accepts that folks can be good with something they don't see, and shows tolerance. If they do, I have just been unlucky for years with teammates.

Im not saying folks don't try to break meta or find new ways to abuse things every patch, hell im one of them. Im saying that what gets picked and played, whats popular, its very much enforced by players more often then riot. I have never gotten a message from riot telling me to kill myself for playing some one outside of their role, I did today for picking up kindred as adc. By the player that came to my lane to steal cs from me to let me know I suck, who made a point to kill skuttles camps that spawned as fast as possible if it had my mark and was near me. This in a game my support died 2 times befor he even hit level 2. Im fine with the game, its just 1 match I don't place a lot of value on any individual game, but that overreaching attitude I keep seeing and have seen for years sucks.

Frankly im getting tired of folks who insist the know the game so well because they watch Elos that they themselves NEVER HAVE PLAYED AT, and seem to think it applys to them and the game states the same, even when they know and admit that mechanically they cant compare to what they use to judge the game. the guys who throw matches to prove a point that a match cant be won because you did not pick what they liked.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Kai Guy3 votes

Off meta builds can enable completely different play patterns on champions. If that pattern suits your style of play better then what's accepted as meta and you can bring more impact to the game doing what your good with over what's most optimal.

The vast majority of the players in this game do not operate at 100% efficiency, and a massive majority of games will never see a champion operating at max potential. Has Azir ever done well in the hands the lowest mmr players?

Just using on paper math is not a realistic way to consider the game. the skill of a player is more invested in an alternative playstyle available to a champion that they can provide more off that then its the better option every time. If the best case is not being used what ever provides more influence in a match is going to be better, even when its not the most optimal.

Also any off meta build that's shown to have more power then the current meta build becomes meta. Any player able to use a weaker build better then stronger ones should go for the option they are better with.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

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Kai Guy1 votes

I truly believe that a player who knows how to do off meta builds and picks very well is 100% better playing that then selecting a meta pick they are objectively worse at, that its not a negative impact on their team as long as they preform well. That skill expression on champions has a lot more impact then on paper. You can disagree that's fine.

My complaint is that folks will tilt over it Way to fast, and throw matches with out even making an effort. That the amount of Toxicity you experience trying something different results in a lot of players giving up on trying. Its to the point most are never trying to build their own playstyle.

The issue I have with on paper approaches for statistically weaker vs reg build is that your always looking at the best case, and I really don't feel that's applicable to a majority of players. if an off meta build comes online faster or has less mechanical requirements to do well with its inherently gonna do better on lower skilled players then the meta build, but they are unlikely to ever try it, not because of riots balancing but the kick back you get from community and the massive amount of toxic behavior and communication.

Anyhow my claim is that a majority of the player base is going to be enforcing it more then the portion of players constantly trying to break it, that you get massive kick back from folks pretty frequently, For shit as minor as a single rune change, or a Different SS.

Its funny, because Pro play tends to turn off meta into meta pretty much instantly. Some examples, Zyra and Velkoz became supports, Blue build EZ, MF support. Zilian Mid. Ivern jungle w support items.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Kai Guy1 votes

I have a better understanding of your view point after this post. For me once "off meta" becomes"The meta" it cant be considered off meta anymore.

I see how you view it, if I had the same starting point as you its a clear path of logic. For me, when it gets to the point everybody is running it, its a common build or champion, that's shifted into being the meta when riot changes that its not a nerf to off meta builds as by definition that build was no longer off meta. I don't think you share that outlook, and that's entirely ok.

Seems like your beef is that riot guts builds discovered by parts of the community once they show a good deal of power and you feel that's them making the game a more enforced meta. My beef is if you want to play the game looking for those builds there high # of players in the community that actively punishes you for doing so via verbal or in game toxicity.

IP Masquerena3 votes

I spam Taliyah jungle lately, playing almost only her in ranked. Is she meta? Hell yea. Are silver players dumb? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELL YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAA!!!

Had games where our top laner would farm my topside jungle because "trolls don't need farm", team mates who decide not to help then flame. Yesterday a Draven told me not to pick her because she doesn't work in low elo, then when I got invaded by Skarner, at my gromp, I could hold my own as it was early, but I was asking for assistance so we can kill him, Draven comes by from base, gives a Thumb Up emote and keeps going passing by me, when Malzahar rotatates (Skarner's duo) and I die, Draven starts crying how I lost the game. Later I try to gank top, as Garen (Draven's duo) kept begging for help against Quinn, I ping, he hits Q, I go in, he backs off with a "trolls don't need help". All game long, if a gank would've been successful, both Draven and Garen would let the enemy run away just so I don't get any gold.

I have around 55% winrate on Taliyah jungle atm, which would've been much higher if people wouldn't decide to troll me because they see her as a troll pick as they never herd of her being in the jungle, or just because they think she isn't good in low elo.

Meta slaves are the worst type of player you can have, as their mentality is that only they can carry, and decide not to help the team if something isn't going their way, because they see the game as already lost.

Giga Baboon2 votes

Yeah blame the players for picking champions that are obviously better than every other champion. That's insight right there.

Kai Guy3 votes

I'm not blaming the players who like meta picks and I don't quite know how you got that feeling. My issues with the folks who freak out that you don't pick what they believe is meta and they actively punish players for it. Turns throwing games if your Demands that folks need to play something they are not necessary good with is not a great way to win match's.

hhaavviikk2 votes

but riot doesn't exactly encourage it by nerfing off-meta builds

gabetheguy2 votes

why would you pick glacial augment pyke? that's completely counterproductive. are you trying to tilt your teammates?

Kai Guy2 votes

It gives him more cc. I also grab item 3144 and that functions as a pretty strong power spike on completion. On demand aoe 60% slow, into Q or E into the other. Full combo of CC out of W stealth. Im sitting at a 55% winrate on it in about 50 games. The rest of the inspiration line saves him gold, something if your running him a support you can be short on.

I don't like Lethality Pyke, CD on his ability's is pretty high, the items cost more, does not help him much with uptime in fights, but the Aftershock tank pyke suffers really low damage and is entirely reliant on teammates to set him up for R.

So I go for items like item 3156 item 3812 item 3153 item 3109. have the ability to put up damagefrom his spell rotation of EQ, have a pretty easy time landing the CC every time. Can peel for adc better.

Off meta but hey works for me.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lmfzAPYo,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-07-01T18:56:17.909+0000)

It gives him more cc. I also grab item 3144 and that functions as a pretty strong power spike on completion. On demand aoe 60% slow, into Q or E into the other. Full combo of CC out of W stealth. Im sitting at a 55% winrate on it in about 50 games. The rest of the inspiration line saves him gold, something if your running him a support you can be short on.

I don't like Lethality Pyke, CD on his ability's is pretty high, the items cost more, does not help him much with uptime in fights, but the Aftershock tank pyke suffers really low damage and is entirely reliant on teammates to set him up for R.

So I go for items like item 3156 item 3812 item 3153 item 3109. have the ability to put up damagefrom his spell rotation of EQ, have a pretty easy time landing the CC every time. Can peel for adc better.

Off meta but hey works for me.

gonna give this a try myself, looks promising tbh.

gabetheguy1 votes

going glacial augment is completely counterproductive when you already have a melee slow.

GodlyBane2 votes

wait holy shit, KAI GUY ITS ME i was a yasuo in one of your games, look for meee

Kai Guy1 votes

Ahoy! Was fun playing with you. I got wrecked that match T.T Was completely destroyed haha. Good example of a round where me testing something cost my team the game.

I am Back to the drawing board on trying to figure how to make Kind ADC work, consistently finding it Struggles when I don't see the mage or bruiser bot cheese comps on enemy team or if I don't que with a friend that's good at burst mage supports. Can be a goofy strong combo with a Taric but you end up trading sustained damage for a cheesey godmode combo for teamfights. Once 7 stacks and 3 items starts to feel like a hyper carry but im pretty shure Kaisa is just gonna be better in almost every situation.

You playe a good game thou, You probably can get out of bronze if you just sat down and grinded more ranked matches. Did not seem like you tilt to easy at the very least. Best of luck!

GodlyBane1 votes

thx mate, you werent bad that game yourself but it was fun and gl with your kindred adc testing! cya man, was nice seeing you here lol

SwiftKitten882 votes

yeah its always funny to do something for ages, and everyone calls it trash.. only for a pro to do it once and then everyone starts doing it.

i dont remember the exact example for season 4/5 but i had one.

nowadays i have people laugh at me for taking kleptomancy on support lux. when it has an absolute crazy snergy with my passive. is is very good for an aggressive laning phase, because u want to be weaving in autos after your abilities anyways becuase of your passive

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

yeah its always funny to do something for ages, and everyone calls it trash.. only for a pro to do it once and then everyone starts doing it.

This. SO MUCH.

FutureCreator2 votes

My first ranked game after placements. I was Silver 5 and decided to pick up Nunu Jungle. My top lane Yorick declared that Nunu wasn't a jungle champ and proceeded to int and lose us the game.

Couldn't have been introduced to ranked in a better way.

3TWarrior2 votes

-infinite facepalm-

why is your forehead so red?

because someone just called the best jungler champion in the game not a jungler

okay, but they don't always win?

I didn't say they were the best at winning XD

also, can't believe someone downvoted that...

rtbf2216514121 votes

Attack Damage Carry - (Community words)

Marksman - Bottom - (Riot Words)

LIAR! Conspiracy theory!

Kappa

Cosnirak1 votes

At least one person doubts my AP Ashe mid every time I play it. I typically beat them in damage to champs, k/d/a, kp%, vision score, and cc score.

Anatera1 votes

I trust the player base far more than I trust Riot. At least the players play the fucking game.

Violet Fields1 votes

You're describing exactly what I did with Bard mid last season, everyone screamed at me and I had a 79%ish win rate with it, then the Ludens echo change happened and he's basically unplayable now. I got to gold last season with this cheese trick why did they have to make it unviable?

Kai Guy1 votes

I saw a Bard top Main once that demolished everything. That was cool.

3TWarrior1 votes

aww man, I was going to try bard mid when I actually got bard XD

seems like he was born for it with an enclosed space for his chimes, a practically free stun, high damage, heals/wards and ganks from literally anywhere with his magical journey XD

oh, and don't forget he can freeze towers, minions or champions for 2 to 3 seconds from halfway across the map with his ult XD

xelaker1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lmfzAPYo,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-30T22:09:50.450+0000)

Disagree? Play something "off meta." Watch your teammates reactions. I play Pyke with Glacial augmentation ranked. Get stupid amounts tilt for it. Im sitting at over 60% win rate but nah my top decides he hates Pyke support for not being a "real support" So he does stuff like Teleport into enemy tower under 3 champions and instantly dies. Uses his ulti to get into fights solo. dies. Entire game flames and rages about my pick and that I deserve to lose. This trend is for pretty much anything you wanna run if its not standard champions or stuff not seen in pro play and streams.

Don't get me wrong, the biweekly patches have a huge impact on what is or is not viable, but the players are the ones who choose to dick you over for not going standard picks or builds.

the playerbase wants to win, and meta implies the best so yea.... Riot is the one who nerfs champs that stray outside of their role though...

Kai Guy2 votes

Asking some one to play something meta they are bad with over something they have consistent impact on Hurts your win %.

Freaking out and throwing games because your team did not obey your calls for what the comp needs to be, or your in game calls, hurts your ability to win.

Freaking out cuz enemy picked a champion that you felt needed to be a ban or pick, and "not even gonna try , they got -blank- its GG" Hurts your fucking ability to win.

I don't have issue with folks likeing or playing meta picks, by all means play what your good with and enjoy. what I want to address the attitude that its the only way and when folks get toxic about it. You get punished by the community

TempName548461 votes

i've done a lot of off meta shit and haven't had a single tilter, maybe its the fact that when they ping the shit they don't agree with i tell them to check my match history.

Tegash1 votes

The folks in Korea are the only ones who actually want to theorycraft. It's sickening. NA just copies them without thinking about how those practices came about.

Hyquiem1 votes

That’s not the only thing, I played azir mid, my entire team desires not to ping at all.

LordGeovanni1 votes

player base tries to enforce it through chat riot does it through champion stat manipulation

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