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Aight Morde players, I'ma need you to be reasonable for a second

Z3Sleeper··43 votes·16,416 views

Do you really think that this interaction:

https://imgur.com/DwgVMbw

https://imgur.com/rPZQJIa

Is okay?

For those of you who don't know, Morde treats non-minions (e.g. pets) the exact same as champions. This means that for instance using W on 2 of Yorick's Ghouls will heal him as if he just hit 2 champions with the ability.

Note that this level of healing rivals Nunu's Q (and usually grants his entire shield bar since his shield conversion treats pets as champions too!).

Nunu's Q: 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255 (+ 70% AP) (+ 10% bonus health) Morde's W: 100 / 170 / 240 / 310 / 380 (+ 60% AP)

If this interaction was removed, the healing from ghouls alone would be:

25 / 42.5 / 60 / 77.5 / 95 (+ 15% AP)

However he could still catch Yorick (or any other pet user) in his W like what the intended use of this ability is supposed to be and heal:

62.5 / 106.25 / 150 / 193.75 / 237.5 (+ 37.5% AP)

Edit:

Alright guys, I'm seeing a vast majority of the comments defending this interaction saying something along the lines of "Mordekaiser is bad, let him have this".

Just because a champion is weak is not an excuse to allow a broken interaction such as this to exist.

I'm aware other broken interactions exist, once again, not the point. We're talking about this interaction right now.

196 Comments

LSmaster1657 votes

On the one hand, they probably should fix that interaction for things like Yorick ghouls. On the other hand, do you really want to see how many bugs it would cause if they tried to fix it?

Somber Rites9 votes

{quoted}

On the one hand, they probably should fix that interaction for things like Yorick ghouls. On the other hand, do you really want to see how many bugs it would cause if they tried to fix it?

That's like, half the fun of trying to change Morde.

Maybe if we do it enough, the client will be buggy as fuck too.

Oh wait.

Horse Grenades16 votes

He poorly designed.. so no.. I don’t think it’s ok.. He’s super strong against melees in minions and basically useless in all other situations

Mordepool11 votes

Most melee champs he's not laning against wreck Mordes day ill use jax as an example. In lane I can punish him and poke him off the wave and gain a farm advantage thus maintaining dominance after 1st back. but have that same jax in the jungle getting equal gold value as Morde and im a 1 v1 stat check Jax wins.

There are much worse designed champions who allow for no counterplay. Morde has the decency of committing to a fight he can't Run from every time.

Horse Grenades12 votes

I don’t disagree. There are situations where he is too strong and situations where he is basically useless.. poorly designed

BeatzBoyFTW13 votes

Sure it's broken, but uhh, so? Outside of that annoying interaction, Morde's still basically nothing in the current meta.

Z3Sleeper28 votes

Yeah and that sucks for Morde. He just got the short end of the stick as one of CT's experiments. I used to play Morde before the rework too and a little bit after. He was actually my first main when I started this game (1v5 all day).

But that doesn't excuse this being a thing.

CleverCactus14 votes

The issue isn't Morde per se, it's the poor classification of pets. For example, Nunu doesn't get full healing on Q from them since they aren't minions or monsters, and Morde gets the full healing on them since they aren't minions.

Riot needs to unify what pets count as, since we have wacky things like Cho'gath being able to eat unlimited Malzahar voidlings for stacks, and some pets not activating aert and some do.

SociopathFriend9 votes

like Cho'gath being able to eat unlimited Malzahar voidlings for stacks

https://media.giphy.com/media/b5RedV3pt144g/giphy.gif

Mordepool11 votes

Let me ask you a question how long is the cool down on Mordes W ?

Z3Sleeper30 votes

Lemme ask you a question. You know how long it takes to farm up 4 ghouls?

Hint: Longer than Morde's W cooldown.

Mordepool9 votes

A while so why would you use them when your opponents 14 second cooldown healing ability is available

Edit for clarity ( I put out an erroneous number to see if you fact Check, I'm glad to see you do you have earned my respect) I catch a fair number of Ignorant Morde haters with that also Morde doesn't build a lot of CD and if so it's late game so those numbers are usually relevant in lane.

Hint: I don't need your hint I know

Z3Sleeper19 votes

12*/11/10/9/8 second cooldown ability. Versus Yorick's Ghoul farming that takes at minimum 21/18.75/16.5/14.25/12 seconds.

Now lemme ask you this. Why would you use your healing ability that has broken interaction with Yorick's ghouls before he spawns them?

Mordepool8 votes

Farm the wave it happens all the time. Back off hide in a bush for a bit
Morde will push the wave it's 2nd nature.

You have time to work around it. Stop blaming my champ for having this one thing over yours. Since last I checked Yorick was so broken OP they had to Nerf him

Z3Sleeper15 votes

{quoted}

Farm the wave it happens all the time. Back off hide in a bush for a bit
Morde will push the wave it's 2nd nature.

This is more biased. He could very well just not push the wave with W.

And Yorick spawns ghouls to push waves as well. Well if Morde happens to be there he has a free way to replenish his health and shield bars.

I'm blaming your champion for having a broken interaction with specific other champions.

{quoted}

Since last I checked Yorick was so broken OP they had to Nerf him

Aaaand this is irrelevant.

Anyway, so we've established that both players want to push waves with their abilities, and both players can hold onto their abilities so they can counter the other.

With that said, there is no further counter-argument in these regards. So what then, is the reasoning behind why Morde should not only invalidate Yorick's ghouls, but make them detrimental to Yorick's success?

Mordepool6 votes

You asked me to be reasonable I have thus given a reasonable answer to your question. Play around the CD

I however doubt you actually want a reasonable answer.

Did you know after Yoricks rework his mains complained so much about Morde ( a at the time 46% average winrate champ) blowing up his Ghouls that they gave them AOE resist.

I suspect you want something similar

(Edited for redacted assertions about details i got wrong: Mordes winrate dropped to 44% at one point probably had nothing to do with Yorick for the most part)

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Can you stop defending a bug/unhealthy interaction because of champion strength?

Mordepool4 votes

That's rich since it's not a BUG. Working as intended. Here is an example of how it works An ability that provides sustain by hitting minions are reduced

Ghouls=/= minions

Transfusion Vladimir drains the life force of his target, dealing 80 / 100 / 120 / 140 / 160 (+60% of ability power) magic damage and healing himself for 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 (+35% of ability power). The healing is 35% effective vs minions

I'm Right regardless of bias

OP has made me out to be the bad guy Idgaf he's just salty

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Notice how I said "/unhealthy interaction"?

Mordepool2 votes

So the definition of "unhealthy"is anything that benefits Morde?

Despite the ability following the rules set down that all similar abilities follow.

Yeah your opinion is uninformed like many inthis thread

Sõna3 votes

it's just usual morde main protecting their champions like most of the yasuo/zed main on board

BLACK REALM GOD3 votes

{quoted}

Lemme ask you a question. You know how long it takes to farm up 4 ghouls?

Hint: Longer than Morde's W cooldown.

let me as you a question.

if a train leaves from Connecticut traveling southwest with a load of 13 tons of steel, 2 tons of coal and a crew capacity of 5 average sized adult men and a second train leaves Road island heading northwest with a load of 3 ton wood, 5 ton brick and mortar, and .5 ton of paper with a crew of 3 men and 2 women average size and all adults where will the two trains meet?

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Well until you give me the velocities of the two trains I'll have to leave you with "somewhere in between them".

######PS: don't give me the velocities

BLACK REALM GOD3 votes

{quoted}

Well until you give me the velocities of the two trains I'll have to leave you with "somewhere in between them".

######PS: don't give me the velocities

the answer is never. actually. because Rhode island is east of Connecticut

Z3Sleeper2 votes

I hate you.

But did we specify what YEAR it is? Cuz in 2020 all railroads are going to be made of solid light allowing for railroads that span across oceans and all around the globe.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

{quoted}

I hate you.

But did we specify what YEAR it is? Cuz in 2020 all railroads are going to be made of solid light allowing for railroads that span across oceans and all around the globe.

doesnt matter. if a train leaves from Connecticut going southwest it will never meet with a train going north west from Rhode Island. they're both heading west and in opposite directions.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

But the earth is a spheroid. That means that they will actually intersect at 2 points.

BLACK REALM GOD2 votes

{quoted}

But the earth is a spheroid. That means that they will actually intersect at 2 points.

YOU'RE LIVING A LIE!

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

Let me ask you a question how long is the cool down on Mordes W ?

hey, if it was a shaco, wukong or leblanc clone, it would be fair since those are generally treated as champions by everything else, and you can even waste summoners and ultimates on them.

but treating yorick ghouls as champions for the heal is a bit silly.

i like morde too, but lets be fair on this one.

i also like yasuo as a champion, but still think its dumb that he gets automatically placed just out of turret range when he ults an enemy under his turret. if hes gonna want to take the risk and go for a dive, actually make him take the risk.

some mechanics shouldnt exist, or not have such jank interactions.

Mordepool2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWvcm15R,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-10-09T16:48:07.433+0000)

but treating yorick ghouls as champions for the heal is a bit silly.

That's not what's happening at all in this case the Heal only has reduced effect on Lane minions. All other units provide the full heal

i like morde too, but lets be fair on this one.

I have been I gave examples of counterplay despite what OP would have you believe

i also like yasuo as a champion, but still think its dumb that he gets automatically placed just out of turret range when he ults an enemy under his turret. if hes gonna want to take the risk and go for a dive, actually make him take the risk.

I agree with that particular statement about Yasou. But I have to ask from the pictures above how is Yorick putting himself at risk in this scenario

some mechanics shouldnt exist, or not have such jank interactions.

Like Bards slow/ stun bypassing spell shields for example

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

That's not what's happening at all in this case the Heal only has reduced effect on Lane minions. All other units provide the full heal

I have been I gave examples of counterplay despite what OP would have you believe

I agree with that particular statement about Yasou. But I have to ask from the pictures above how is Yorick putting himself at risk in this scenario

Like Bards slow/ stun bypassing spell shields for example

srry, didnt read the entire discussion yet. i guess its fair then.

and yes, bards stun bypassing spell shields also doesnt make sense.

Malicious Metal11 votes

Its's working as intended. Any other minionmancer gets to have their stuff not count as lane minions so these kinds of interactions are completely justified.

If you changed this for Yorick you'd have to rework the entire interaction with zyra plants, malzahar voidlings, tibbers and co.

So no, let's not change this for no real reason at all.

Besides, Morde's gonna get reworked soon and his play rate is so abysmally low that there's no reason at all to even try changing this interaction.

Z3Sleeper4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWvcm15R,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2018-10-09T20:21:59.513+0000)

Its's working as intended. Any other minionmancer gets to have their stuff not count as lane minions so these kinds of interactions are completely justified.

If you changed this for Yorick you'd have to rework the entire interaction with zyra plants, malzahar voidlings, tibbers and co.

That's the intent.

  • Edit: Oh sorry chap I didn't reply to your "working as intended" bit. There's the cherry picking! Shame on me! Anywho, as I've said in every other reply saying the same thing, yes, it is actually working as it was coded to work. Anything non-minion is supposed to work. But I'm fairly certain that it was never meant to be abused on pets in laning phase. Afterall, in the jugg update he was designed to be a duo laner and not a top laner, where Yorick was put. I'm sure they knew it worked in Zyra's matchup too and I really can't say why they let that one through.

  • All speculation on my part as for whether or not it's intended. Regardless of that intent though, we should be able to clearly just look at the images in the OP and decide for ourselves like self-thinking human beings whether that's okay or not.

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWvcm15R,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2018-10-09T20:21:59.513+0000)

So no, let's not change this for no real reason at all.

Besides, Morde's gonna get reworked soon and his play rate is so abysmally low that there's no reason at all to even try changing this interaction.

I can think of one reason. And so can the original post.

  • Edit: Additonally, low playrate or "soon™ to be reworked" is not a valid reason to not fix a (imo) broken interaction.

Edit: I put your entire comment in there. Happy? "Cherry picking". I didn't even change my words in this, same responses, bigger block quotes. Whoopdeedoo.

Malicious Metal4 votes

You just cherry picked half of my reply. Great discussion.

10/10

Kelg8 votes

If you want a real reasonable answer from me, here:

  1. Mordekaiser is actually squishy unless hes super fed, and even then he can be bursted down
  2. Morde is dead if he's ganked while pushing top
  3. He has no way of actually killing you and can't dive well
  4. Yorick would stomp Morde 100% of the time if they removed this heal
  5. Yorick can still beat Morde even with this heal

I honestly wouldn't care if they removed this if they buffed him to compensate(which they won't). Sure him healing like this is annoying, but it's hardly game breaking and isn't very useful outside of lane. Removing this interaction would just be a pointless Morde nerf and minor Yorick/Malz buff.

Z3Sleeper4 votes

{quoted}

Yorick would stomp Morde 100% of the time if they removed this heal

False, he would just receive his normal healing amount which is 62.5-237.5 (champ + minion) rather than 100-380.

It'd be a playable matchup instead of a one-sided push.

Yorick can still beat Morde even with this heal

As a Yorick main, this is strictly false. No damage Yorick does to him sticks since Yorick deals damage primarily as DPS. Morde's passive is the actual counter to this, shielding him to reduce every attack's damage to his actual health while healing back half of it as soon as he dips to 50%.

I mean, you can clearly see it in the image. What should have been a somewhat advantageous situation for Yorick turned into a huge disadvantage in an instant.

The only counterplay Yorick has is to call for his jungler since Morde is the easiest champ to gank in the game.

I honestly wouldn't care if they removed this if they buffed him to compensate(which they won't).

Since this doesn't affect anything other than the Yorick/Malz/Zyra/Heim matchup, why would he need compensation that would affect every other matchup?

Jinzo Torrance3 votes

His normal healing would be 25-95 (25% of max), do you even know what you're talking about? He would just gain 30+15%AP more health than what he payed to use his W.

Most of champion abilities that have reduced effect against minions or something like Fleet don't treat summoned units as minions, why should Morde W?

Kelg3 votes

{quoted}

False, he would just receive his normal healing amount which is 62.5-237.5 (champ + minion) rather than 100-380.

It'd be a playable matchup instead of a one-sided push.

Yeah no. Yorick would just W morde (with his shitty 325 MS and awful attack speed) and spam ghouls when they come up. There's no way in hell morde could fight back and he would be forced back for just trying to CS, eventually falling behind in cs and losing lane.

As a Yorick main, this is strictly false. No damage Yorick does to him sticks since Yorick deals damage primarily as DPS. Morde's passive is the actual counter to this, shielding him to reduce every attack's damage to his actual health while healing back half of it as soon as he dips to 50%.

Not true at all. You can kill morde or force him back with a gank. Then once you get a CS lead and build TF you can burst him with Q. If he keeps shoving to build his shield he's an easy gank. Your jungler is an idiot if he doesn't camp a pushing morde at top.

Since this doesn't affect anything other than the Yorick/Malz/Zyra/Heim matchup, why would he need compensation that would affect every other matchup?

Oh yeah, because Morde doesn't lose enough lanes as it is. Time to make him lose to champs he counters as well.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Morde shouldn't be touched until his VGU anyway so this topic is pointless.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

{quoted}

Not true at all. You can kill morde or force him back with a gank.

Aight then that's not Yorick, that's the jungler. I'm not saying Yorick should beat him. I'm just saying it should be a possibility. Currently he just completely shoves him out with 0 counterplay other than "jg camp my lane".

And like I said, he could simply use his W as it was intended to be used and hit Yorick with it for the full heal.

Kelg3 votes

{quoted}

Aight then that's not Yorick, that's the jungler.

Some champs auto-lose to other champs. You don't see me complaining that Morde can't beat Vel'Koz or Anivia. It's just the way the game is. Mordekaiser is by no means broken or OP, so there is no reason to nerf him. LoL is a team game, you aren't meant to win every lane every time.

Somber Rites5 votes

{quoted}

Some champs auto-lose to other champs. You don't see me complaining that Morde can't beat Vel'Koz or Anivia. It's just the way the game is. Mordekaiser is by no means broken or OP, so there is no reason to nerf him. LoL is a team game, you aren't meant to win every lane every time.

No, but there should always be a possibility of victory that is based on your own skill, rather than praying your jungler shows up or your lane opponent has brain damage.

Auto-lose matchups are not okay, yo.

R35URR3C710N6 votes

One more for the "Things Wrong With Morde" pile. Morde is the Bethesda games of League, his bugs are features, and he won't be touched until his rework.

FOR JUSTICE6 votes

This is the greatest comparison ive ever seen

All hes missing is the extra buggy dlc

Alzon7 votes

He’s literally balanced around his bugs.

Z3Sleeper4 votes

You're not wrong. I honestly don't really expect him to be touched. One minor change in his code could create countless bugs.

I'd feel sorry for the poor guy that documents every Morde bug on that Morde bugs post.

Mordepool4 votes

Nearlyn on Reddit I don't know his boards name

Backup4now5 votes

As an ex-1m xp diamond Morde main, I can safely say that W heal is -buggy as fuck (duh) -hard to use when you need it most (in a pinch, when you're about to die while surrounded due to the delay on it) -has a lot of obscure power that allies almost never take advantage of (wanna heal your 1 hp adc on krugs? lol they're clueless, they walk away) -about as unsatisfying as the experience passive -has WAY too much power budget; why does he need that huge heal?! put that power elsewhere, he fuckin sucks ding dong! -this post, he has wonky pet interactions that feel bad for the opponent while not even being particularly good on Mordekaiser himself, which is the worst kind of game design: feels lame, and feels lame to play against; it doesn't even have the Zoe effect of being fun for you but infuriating for the opponent.

Get that shit out of here. That and the EXP passive. Then maybe they can fix him so he won't be a squishy immobile melee carry with shit stats and mediocre damage.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Thank you, reasonable Morde main.

Like, I don't want Morde to be weak and not be strong against anyone. That's not my intent. I just make a post whenever I come across an interaction that just feels outright broken. This is one them.

Oleandervine4 votes

I don't think this is a Mordekaiser thing. I think it's due to how Yorick's minions are coded.

Z3Sleeper11 votes

No it's actually a Mordekaiser thing. The ability works to full effect on pet type units. To include Heim turrets, Zyra plants, Malz Voidlings and many others.

Edit: Dunno why this factual statement is downvoted.

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