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victorious skins should only be awarded for plat+ rank this season

Critmaster Garen··3 votes·980 views

probably gonna get a lot of hate for this, because most of the boards are made up of bronze/silver mmr players and a lot who may barely even be able to reach gold.

but, there was an entire division added infront of challenger this season. as a result, every division below grandmaster at least down to gold was pushed down in mmr range and is easier to obtain this season.

masters this season is about equal to diamond 2 to low lp masters last season. (which was the main reason to add the new grandmaster division, since the skill gap between low diamond and diamond 2 and 1 used to be gigantic) diamond this season is somewhere in plat 2 to diamond 3 last season etc.

gold 4 this season is about where silver 1 maybe even down to silver 2 was in previous seasons.

gold was already easy to reach before, but since a gigantic chunk of the player base made up the silver 2 and silver 1 ratings, it feels like it devalues those skin rewards even more.

another compromise would be to make skin chromas for the appropriate divisions this year.

15 Comments

Yordle Gunner2 votes

no

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yordle Gunner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWK7tTlx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-07T08:35:09.304+0000)

no

good talk.

Yordle Gunner2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWK7tTlx,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-07T08:36:36.407+0000)

good talk.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Myrmiron2 votes

Riot has been devaluing ranks (and the Victorious skinline along with it) ever since Season 1 and they'll continue to do so, so that bad players who never improve feel like they got better at the game because "now their rank is higher than last season". Riot doesn't give a fuck about rank integrity, in fact they're most likely very happy to shit all over it because it furthers player engagement (players are more likely to keep playing if they feel like they improve). Can't do anything about it, and Riot certainly won't change it because bad players are the majority and the most money can be made off of them.

Thingamajig1 votes

there would be a stronger argument to make it for silver than for plat since the introduction of iron but i do agree that gold is extremely easy of an achievement nowadays

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

there would be a stronger argument to make it for silver than for plat since the introduction of iron but i do agree that gold is extremely easy of an achievement nowadays

there was no way for people to drop lower than bronze 5 0lp no matter how many games they lost.

as a result, the division (just bronze 5) used to be gigantic in its player count, and bronze last season was basically split up into iron and bronze this season. at best, you could make an argument that it made silver slightly harder to reach this season if last seasons silver 5 was included in forming bronze this season. but the addition of iron tier had no effect on the mmr ranges of gold and above, while shoving grandmaster infront of challenger lowered the average mmr ranges of the divisions below (up to bronze) slightly.

this was all explained in a dev blog during preseason.

grandmaster was added, because of the gigantic skill gap between diamond 5 and diamond 1, to make a more clear cut in that division and turn d1 and d2 + low lp masters together into the new master divison.

iron tier was split off bronze, because bronze 5 was gigantic.

i think earning the victorious skin should at least feel a little bit like an accomplishment instead of a participation trophy. probably 60% or more of the player base can make it to gold 4+ this season.

Thingamajig1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWK7tTlx,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-07T08:47:42.446+0000)

there was no way for people to drop lower than bronze 5 0lp.

as a result, the division (just bronze 5) used to be gigantic in its player count, and bronze last season was basically split up into iron and bronze this season. at best, you could make an argument that it made silver 4 slightly harder to reach this season, but the addition of iron tier had no effect on the mmr ranges of gold and above, while shoving grandmaster infront of challenger lowered the average mmr ranges of the divisions below (up to bronze) slightly.

this was all explained in a dev blog during preseason.

i think earning the victorious skin should at least feel a little bit like an accomplishment instead of a participation trophy. probably 60% or more of the player base can make it to gold 4+ this season.

i agree with you that it doesn't feel like an achievement especially for people that are way above gold but for people that struggle to get out of silver telling them "this season you have to try to get to plat instead" would be like a knee to the gut for them and this would increase the demand for boosting services and in turn make plat even a bigger shitfest than it already is and with that low diamond would be insanely stupid

so what i mean is even if gold isn't really an achievement it somewhat keeps the elos above more comepetitive

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

but for people that struggle to get out of silver telling them "this season you have to try to get to plat instead" would be like a knee to the gut for them

i mean. thats life?

everyone who made it to plat and above in the past seasons could tell you that you dont have to be a gifted child to reach that mmr.

literally everyone could make it at least to plat 5 eventually if he just kept playing long enough and showed some willingness to improve. this is not an exaggeration.

good news, its even easier this season because plat 4 is effectively what gold 1 to gold 2 used to be.

Thingamajig1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWK7tTlx,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-07T09:08:27.791+0000)

i mean. thats life?

everyone who made it to plat and above in the past seasons could tell you that you dont have to be a gifted child to reach that mmr.

literally everyone could make it to plat eventually if he just kept playing long enough.

good news, its even easier this season.

as i said people that have reached that elo it's w/e for them people that haven't don't know even where to begin "everyone with hundreds of games in silver"

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

as i said people that have reached that elo it's w/e for them people that haven't don't know even where to begin "everyone with hundreds of games in silver"

still dont see the problem. the whole point of the skin reward is supposed to feel at least somewhat like a milestone.

"congratulations youre in the top 60% of the players" hardly seems like a milestone. they still get their borders, wards and emotes for it.

Thingamajig1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWK7tTlx,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-07T09:13:14.115+0000)

still dont see the problem. the whole point of the skin reward is supposed to feel at least somewhat like a milestone.

"congratulations youre in the top 60% of the players" hardly seems like a milestone. they still get their borders, wards and emotes for it.

didn't i tell you that it doesn't feel like an achievement for me ? didn't i tell you that i agree with you? why do you feel like you have to repeat your argument again?

what we think is irrelevant to what players in silver think i can get to gold with 15 games a hard stuck silver can't get out of silver even if you pointed a gun at his head gold 4 is a good enough incentive for those people to try their hardest to improve a little bit for the rest of us it's irrelevant

Kai Guy1 votes

I assumed they just overlapped Tiers. So Iron 4 = Old B5. Figured they had 27 division break downs last year and as they still have 27 division breakdowns this was just a fancy way to change player perception with out changing the system.

Overlapping with removed division 5s and the new systems basically normal around Plat to old seasons. Everbodys Rank shrinks thou.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rWK7tTlx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-07T09:26:53.958+0000)

I assumed they just overlapped Tiers. So Iron 4 = Old B5. Figured they had 27 division break downs last year and as they still have 27 division breakdowns this was just a fancy way to change player perception with out changing the system.

Overlapping with removed division 5s and the new systems basically normal around Plat to old seasons. Everbodys Rank shrinks thou.

the thing is, iron 4 to iron 1 is almost bronze 5 by itself last season, if i understood correctly. like b4 and b5 were apparantly huge since players couldnt possibly drop below b5 and 0lp. so just a huge number of people gathered down there at b5. so many that they apparantly turned it into a separate division.

Kai Guy1 votes

That seems like a bad idea. Each Tier is supposed to represent a MMR range or it has no relation to skill or a MMR system.

Making a slightly lower MMR range for say Iron 4 comparative to B5 is doable... but its not really helping much with any ladder quality. Your bottom of the ladder tier should be a good 1-2 class intervals of MMR from the average player.

In an Elo system off logistical distribution that's something in the ball park of Probability expectations of 76% or 91%. So your B5/Iron 4 Players? Assuming only 200-400 or so "Elo" points your expectations are 3 to 1 lowest and scale up to 9 to 1 odds to fail vs the "average" Player.

you don't see a lot of positive gains trying to account for things that start being class intervals below your "bad" players. Mostly because its easy to play to lose so your not really to worried about how a highly precise rating for "bad" as its low effort to fail.

Then the new tiers have to get rebalanced to represent wider MMR ranges? Honestly.... in that case if the goal is to shift ladder to remove population from the very bottom..

Making a few divisions near the center represent a larger range then prior seasons could work... but it also would add more chaos to duo queing as the skill gaps between lower end and higher end "Tiers" are at a higher inaccuracy.

I read a few of the dev articles but don't really recall any talking about # of players stuck at b5 as an issue. Shoot me a link if you have one for that. I am curious about the topic.

Kelg1 votes

I'm in plat and I still say no. It's always been gold.

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