can we make lethality and % penetration just not stack?

Critmaster Garen·Feb 8, 2017·5 votes·1,270 views

both stats individually arent problematic.

you either stack lethality to deal almost true damage to squishy targets and blow them up, or you get % penetration against extremely armor heavy teams.

its when youre allowed to combine both stats to synergize with each other, where things get obscene.

buff the % armor penetration mastery back slightly and move it to the cunning tree, to give a certain baseline of armor pen to lethality stackers, and then be more generous with same name passives on armor pen items.

just make the big ones not stack with each other on the same champion

i realize this would take a lot of rebalancing of armor pen- and armor items, but in the long run it would be a much healthier approach.

19 Comments

ChaddyFantomeFeb 8, 20172 votes

I mean, champs that get Both would honestly be better off just getting raw Damage instead of lethality tbh.

Unless your goal is specifically squishies, you are better off with Crit and AD with your % armor reduc because you will just plain do more damage that way.

I see so many ADC's goign lethality then becoming useless at the 30 minute mark.

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20172 votes

Riot doesn't like trade-offs in their game anymore.

Unlikely to happen, unfortunately.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 20172 votes

only juggernauts have tradeoffs

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20172 votes

And battle-mages.

Basically the same thing.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 20172 votes

depends on which one

i would a. sol and karthus do, ryze azir are mega fucks though

cass undecided, she's been too obnoxious too many times for me to want to see her again

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20172 votes

Azir has a trade-off. Being nerfed any time he's viable. :^)

And Ryze players have to relearn him every year. :^)

Cass is a disgusting champ from a design perspective.

Mostly talking about Vlad, A. Sol, Karth, etc.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 20172 votes

karthus is fun but never the best pick, a. sol gets tiresome fairly quick imo

what i rly want is more juggernauts though desu. especially one that has a lot of micro play since I'll never get illaoi reworked to do that. i wanna make a thread on it but it'll just get downvotes and "she's fine dude muh 50% winrate"

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20171 votes

If you like Juggernauts with lots of micro play, tbh try mastering Vlad.

There's a surprising amount of nuances to him that I'm kind of surprised Riot implied they acknowledged in the patch-notes.

One of those champions that's surprisingly difficult to use, despite the overall simplicity of the kit, and not just because he's bad atm. There's a reason he had a horrible winrate even when he was, imo, faceroll easy immediately post-rework.

Big LincolnFeb 8, 20171 votes

i actually played him a fair bit before his rework

i never really got used to his new E so i ended up dropping him. him being dragged through the gutter doesn't help. might pick him up after tomorrow, who knows. i hate that i have to play a ranged pseudo-juggernaut just to play something that's not brainless though. riot could really step their game up with melee design..

i think it'd be really easy to do it with Illaoi; i've been thinking about it and it'd be as easy as making her Q able to work off passive spawns and having individual cooldowns for each tentacle she uses Q with.

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20171 votes

I agree in regards to melee design, although ranged is just about as brainless in most cases these days.

Gangplank's another decent option for you; he's basically a Battlemage too lol.

Illaoi needs a minor redesign anyway. She's probably the most interactive juggernaut pre-6, but after that, though mostly lvl 11+, many champions lose the ability to fight her at all.

Remember to always take DFT vs her if you aren't confident about consistently dodging hooks on Vlad, btw. Helps destroy the clone WAY faster. I'd take SRS 100% of the time outside of that.

RexSaurFeb 8, 20172 votes

Why is it problematic anyway?

If someone builds 3 lethality items and 2 % pen item means they have invested their whole build into nothing but damage and pen, why shouldnt they do damage?

Its pretty much a pure glass cannon build, dont see the problem here.

Critmaster GarenFeb 8, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Why is it problematic anyway?

If someone builds 3 lethality items and 2 % pen item means they have invested their whole build into nothing but damage and pen, why shouldnt they do damage?

Its pretty much a pure glass cannon build, dont see the problem here.

because if someone builds 3 defensive items and has invested almost their entire gold into defense, why should he blow up as fast as that glass cannon because the items he just bought are made entirely worthless?

RexSaurFeb 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rHK0gwEE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-02-08T06:43:23.824+0000)

because if someone builds 3 defensive items and has invested almost their entire gold into defense, why should he blow up as fast as that glass cannon because the items he just bought are made entirely worthless?

Offense is supposed to outscale defense (because defense is a lot cheaper thus stronger early game), or games would never end.

WoonStruckFeb 8, 20173 votes

Outscale. Not invalidate AND outscale.

The game has functioned in a healthy state without doing both before.

Critmaster GarenFeb 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Offense is supposed to outscale defense (because defense is a lot cheaper thus stronger early game), or games would never end.

and assassins are supposed to beat adc.

there is still a limit to what is supposed to be allowed. otherwise we could just leave them in a state where they can 1 shot them without counterplay.

a champions build being able to entirely invalidate another champions build is not ok, especially not when the champion is designed around building defense.