Riot, please explain why true damage and %max hp damage are allowed to exist

Cloud273·Jan 22, 2015·5 votes·859 views

Other than "LCS". Give me one good reason why tanks should be completely useless.

17 Comments

Captain AishiJan 22, 20154 votes

true damage is fine if flat amount, %Max hp damage in general I hate because there are only two ways to scale your defensive capabilities against a damage source, and one of them ends up making you take more damage for building it in so many cases it's just dumb % missing hp is the only one i'm kinda ok with since it's the concept of "execution" abilities

Thanotos OmegaJan 22, 20153 votes

The game favors a very fast pace in combat, Tanks also are far more destructive then they are in other games, so the short answer is the game is built around offense with skilled maneuvering being the main method of avoiding damage, Also some one who can one shot you is frustrating, someone who can take three peoples full rotation and heal it all up in a matter of seconds like Nasus used to is just maddening,

Kuroi86Jan 22, 20153 votes

Give me one good reason why tanks should be completely useless.

They aren't. Tanks aren't in the best spot right now, but they are far from useless. True damage is countered by health. % hp damage is countered by armor/mr depending on which form it takes. The only form of these that is non-counterable is % true damage from Vayne who is meant to be a tank buster. If you see Vayne, don't go 1v1, get a fed ally, lock her down, let your ally kill her, end of story.

Done25Jan 22, 20151 votes

{quoted} % hp damage is countered by armor/mr depending on which form it takes.

Problem is, what happens when the armor you built to counter the BotRK is suddenly countered by Zed's Last Whisper?

Kuroi86Jan 23, 20151 votes

item 3153 x item 1029 item 3035 x item 1028

item 3153 item 3035 x item 3143

Armor counters damage, even % damage. Health counters penetration, even % penetration Against both damage and penetration, an item with health and armor will significantly increase your fighting potential.

That said, armor and health values are currently a little low right now imo. In a team fight, if you have a bruiser or mage building somewhat tanky along side you, you should effectively last six to seven seconds, throwing down your CC and dropping every ounce of damage you've got while your glass cannons are raining hell down on the enemy. At current it seems most tanks only last about four to five seconds. So yes, tanks need a little love, not a whole lot, but just a few love taps to bring them up to par.

Done25Jan 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

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Armor counters damage, even % damage. Health counters penetration, even % penetration Against both damage and penetration, an item with health and armor will significantly increase your fighting potential.

That said, armor and health values are currently a little low right now imo. In a team fight, if you have a bruiser or mage building somewhat tanky along side you, you should effectively last six to seven seconds, throwing down your CC and dropping every ounce of damage you've got while your glass cannons are raining hell down on the enemy. At current it seems most tanks only last about four to five seconds. So yes, tanks need a little love, not a whole lot, but just a few love taps to bring them up to par.

Defense items need to be more expensive/slot efficient. (Thornmail 2100 gold vs Blood Thirster's 3500)

It's not like Tanks can't farm as almost all of them have very powerful AoE. So why are their items so cheap and inefficient?

Also, Last Whisper needs to be given a weaker passive and receive an expensive Maw of Malmortius type upgrade to ensure that Marksmen and Zed can't easily rush it and invalidate tanks during the midgame if they get fed.

FHMarshyJan 22, 20152 votes

Variety of damage makes this game more complex, and tbh i enjoy it

Cloud273Jan 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Variety of damage makes this game more complex, and tbh i enjoy it

We have over 100 champs in this game. The game would still be "diverse" if we removed true damage and %max hp damage.

Lord DusteonJan 22, 20152 votes

For true damage: This provides a way for some champions to have guaranteed X damage; they could make the amount a bigger base/ratio magic/physical damage, but that hurts squishies even more while tanks already are less concerned (Say Cho bites you for 800 damage. The 2000 hp squishy just lost 40% of their health; the 4000 tanks only lost 20%). True damage is how some champions remain threats to someone or do sustained damage at all times (and most of the time true damage is single target. The only exceptions I can think of right now are Zyra + Kog's passives and Twitch's passive).

For %maxhp: This is a way for a champion to either remain a threat at all levels (Gnar seems pretty scary when you realize his mini form W procs hurt even if he goes tanky) or to become a hyper carry (Kog/Vayne through their insanely high damage output). Overall though, it's used as a lategame scaling damage source that makes a champion a threat (and for the 3 procs required on gnar/vayne, it also gives some counterplay of backing off before they can proc it).

For Vayne's %maxhp true damage: It's how she's a hypercarry. In return for insanely high damage and kiting (which due to the %max hp true works lategame as a tank buster), she only has a total range of 550. While this does mean you "can't itemize against Vayne" for PART of her damage, the vast majority of her damage will come from autoattacks, her ult, Q, and E unless you happen to be a full built tank against an all AD team.

SmokingPuffinJan 22, 20152 votes

True damage is an effective counter for resistance stacking.

%max HP damage is an effective counter for HP stacking.

Neither mechanic makes tanks completely useless. Tanks are currently weak because tuning, not because mechanics.

Count TobiJan 22, 20151 votes

Riot seems to enjoy trying to make a fundamental idea, into a joke for children of all ages, especially weeaboos we love their heavily drawn splash art from a not so visible connection to what is in-game. Balance my friends? Why not Imbalanced

Done25Jan 22, 20151 votes

True damage is to counter people who build pure defence. (ex, Rammus with Thornmail and Frozen Heart.)

The order in which damage is most powerful should be:

Most damaging #1. Raw Physical/Magic (Countered by health and defense.) #2. Flat True (Countered by health.) #3. Percent True (Countered by nothing.) Least damaging

[Percent Magical is an abomination and should be remove/converted to Percent True.]

DecritJan 22, 20152 votes

Actually percent true can be countered: by building offensive! This is also why Vayna has a lot worse time in botlane early game compared to other lanes, and that, s why if you build iceborn on ez against vayne you are kneecapping yourself..

Done25Jan 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually percent true can be countered: by building offensive! This is also why Vayna has a lot worse time in botlane early game compared to other lanes, and that, s why if you build iceborn on ez against vayne you are kneecapping yourself..

I meant in terms of defensive options. :P

DecritJan 23, 20151 votes

Sorry, tought you were accepting all options... after all tanks now need to build at least a bit of damage, and if a mechanic is like "counter anything that is tanky" it's obvious that was already excluding tanky items..

my bad u.u

Done25Jan 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, tought you were accepting all options... after all tanks now need to build at least a bit of damage, and if a mechanic is like "counter anything that is tanky" it's obvious that was already excluding tanky items..

my bad u.u

It's fine. XD "Kill them" tends to counter everything though. :P Not many champions can fight back once they're dead. XD

Ut yes. More people need to get used to building damage. points.at the "Tank" Renekton who couldn't even scratch me while I was playing as Thresh and I soloed his 3rd tower.

RebonackJan 23, 20151 votes

%HP damage is for abilities that are meant to be relevant at all stages of the game without being overbearing. If Koggy got 40/60/80/100/120 flat OnHit damage for his W he would just totally wreck everything in lane.

True damage is for making attacks that are relevant against hard targets without turning soft targets into a fine red mist.