Jhin buffs were just too much

dEAdbUs·Mar 19, 2016·6 votes·1,545 views

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.overallPosition&order=ascend

26 Comments

FaieMar 19, 20166 votes

What about Jhin? He's sitting at a 52% winrate, which is considered healthy and not particularly problematic. Nothing major happened to him, just made his early game a bit stronger, but he still has the same glaring weaknesses that he has always had (lack of escapes, ammo system, slow turret pushing, etc.)

EmExMar 19, 20162 votes

since when is 52% win rate healthy?

DesideriumMar 19, 20163 votes

A winrate of 52% is a deviation from the norm by 2%. Similar to why a 48% winrate champion wouldn't need buffs. Because it's only a 2% deviation. For example; you don't want to buff 48% just because it isn't 50 or above. And you don't want to nerf 52% just because it isn't 50 or below.

EmExMar 19, 20161 votes

I would say 52% is op unless there is a good reason for it, maybe if mostly mainers play that champ or if it is a very easy champ to pick up then win rate of 52% is ok. But think about it, you are only 1 part of a 5 man team, so 52% is op more often than not.

When a champ is so low like 48% it might be because they are hard to play and a main would perform in the 50%+ range with him/her.

FaieMar 19, 20161 votes

Riot has stated that a winrate of 52% or 48% is healthy for the game because a winrate like that can be caused by random fluctuations, and it may not even have anything to do with game balance. For example, there was a time when it said in the patch notes that Vladimir's pool no longer gave him a movespeed bonus, while in reality nothing was changed about him. His winrate fell 3%. A fluctuation of 2% from 50% is considered normal.

CatastropMar 19, 20161 votes

Since Preseason.

dEAdbUsMar 19, 20165 votes

He has 20% pickrate which is high. His winrate must fall when more people started to play him, but instead of that his winrate grew up (http://champion.gg/champion/Jhin/ADC). This is unhealthy tendency.

DrCyanideMar 19, 20161 votes

He's got a fun kit to play. I normally play Mid and I've been spamming him to death.

As for the games played, the average Jhin player has already played more games with that champion than the average Kog'Maw player. That's crazy! His player base experience distribution is healthier than a champion that has been around for years.

YCitizenSnipsYMar 19, 20161 votes

Fun kit is what they call it now. I seem to remember other "fun" champions lose those types of pick rates as soon as they are no longer top tier. He's overpowered right now that all.

DrCyanideMar 20, 20161 votes

He's new and fun, that's a recipe for high pick rates. It's likely Aurelian Sol will steal that spotlight soon enough.

YCitizenSnipsYMar 20, 20161 votes

High pick rate should equal low win rate, especially on a newer champion. In fact he is actually perfoming better than Lux right now. Pretty much tells you how balanced he is.

As always I'm sure when he is nerfed he will suddenly not be "fun" anymore and hopefully go back to a moderate pick rate.

YCitizenSnipsYMar 19, 20161 votes

You want to mention that 20% pick rate he has in combination of that 52% win rate. Those weakness must not be all that punishing if he is winning that much with that type of pick rate. I'm just saying that's now a higher pick and win rate than Zed and about even with Lux right now.

DesideriumMar 19, 20162 votes

What can they even nerf? Make his W and R be considered multi target spells again? Wtf?

The buffs weren't that significant. What are they gonna do? Revert the movespeed buff by 5?

If he wasn't successful when he was released despite his kit being strong, then all the buffs to his base values wouldn't have made his winrate jump that high.

The most noticeable parts of his kit that a low elo player would want to complain about is his 4th shot crit, which he needs to be a viable champion because he has 0 attack speed scaling. Nothing else about his kit is even remotely anti-fun to play against. He almost has as much counterplay as Zed, and Zed has a lot of fucking counterplay. So no, Jhin isn't broken.

ProfDrDeathMar 19, 20161 votes

Reverting the MS buff would be an interesting idea, due to how long-ranged his kit in general is and how he gets MS for critting with his autos.

dEAdbUsMar 19, 20161 votes

There was post on reddit where player explains why jhin buffs were actually significant.

BisaknospMar 19, 20162 votes

well i realized a few weeks before that he is pretty broken still waiting for people to realize that too like in every game i play people say 'wow' wow for what? the things you can do with this champ with little to no effort are just retarded since most people build item 3009 on him the base ms should be reverted plus i do think the q needs a higher mana cost early game

Elite4RunnerMar 19, 20161 votes

I think the real problem with Jhin is that when people see an instance of an overwhelming amount of damage, they assume that he is able to deal that amount of damage just as often as every other ADC. I look at it this way. Each full cycle of Jhin's 4 shots + reload takes place in about a 6.5 second interval, assuming that he is able to attack with no delays. Most other champions will have the ability to attack at least 6 times within that same 6.5 seconds. It's not much of stretch for Jhin's auto attacks to deal 600 to 1000 damage, toward the late game. That is about 4000 damage in the first 4 seconds, but in a direct comparison, that is actually 4000 damage over 6.5 seconds. Now, it is also not much of a stretch for other ADCs to deal about 600 damage. Even assuming that these ADCs have no additional attack speed, that comes out to about 3600 damage over 6.5 seconds. This is really not a significant difference. Any attack speed would easily make up for that. Also as Fajisel pointed out, most of these other champions have good escapes, no ammo system, and are great at clearing minion waves. So yes, Jhin can be scary, but he can absolutely be out played.

GameFly HunterMar 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I think the real problem with Jhin is that when people see an instance of an overwhelming amount of damage, they assume that he is able to deal that amount of damage just as often as every other ADC. I look at it this way. Each full cycle of Jhin's 4 shots + reload takes place in about a 6.5 second interval, assuming that he is able to attack with no delays. Most other champions will have the ability to attack at least 6 times within that same 6.5 seconds. It's not much of stretch for Jhin's auto attacks to deal 600 to 1000 damage, toward the late game. That is about 4000 damage in the first 4 seconds, but in a direct comparison, that is actually 4000 damage over 6.5 seconds. Now, it is also not much of a stretch for other ADCs to deal about 600 damage. Even assuming that these ADCs have no additional attack speed, that comes out to about 3600 damage over 6.5 seconds. This is really not a significant difference. Any attack speed would easily make up for that. Also as Fajisel pointed out, most of these other champions have good escapes, no ammo system, and are great at clearing minion waves. So yes, Jhin can be scary, but he can absolutely be out played.

Okay, I do agree he can be outplayed, true, but you're just looking at one single factor; his base AD and his AS. You have to include his natural crit, even if it's lowered in damage... his entire kit in total, before you can make that kind of assessment. I'm not saying Jhin doesn't have flaws; of course he does, and he does have outplay potential. But he is indeed a force to be reckoned with; his winrate proves that much.

Elite4RunnerMar 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=GameFly Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r76ilIJ8,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-03-19T09:24:56.617+0000)

Okay, I do agree he can be outplayed, true, but you're just looking at one single factor; his base AD and his AS. You have to include his natural crit, even if it's lowered in damage... his entire kit in total, before you can make that kind of assessment. I'm not saying Jhin doesn't have flaws; of course he does, and he does have outplay potential. But he is indeed a force to be reckoned with; his winrate proves that much.

Actually, I was including his natural crit. It's pretty much impossible for a Jhin to get much more damage without having close to 100% critical strike chance, so I would say an average of about 1000 damage is fair.

But that is his biggest factor. The fact that he can amass a freight train worth of AD is exactly what makes him so powerful. Hell, even the allure of the sheer amount of AD he can attain gives him a weakness. People will generally want to go for as an aggressive build as possible because that is what he is good at. In the same sense, his general vulnerability is his Achilles heel. In order to have such massive damage he can not have any real tank stats, and if he does, his damage actually falls behind fairly quickly.