Something needs to be done to make jungle more desirable to play at Diamond+

Yenn·Nov 27, 2018·2 votes·819 views

Nobody wants to play jungle. I can't even queue with it as my secondary, because I'll get it in 9/10 games. Even if I don't queue for it, I still have to play it in maybe 1/5 games, because someone was auto-filled to it.

It's not surprising, because it's a shitty role for solo queue due to the fact that it's heavily dependent on all four players on your team, and the match ups are entirely binary if you factor out team mates. Success largely requires the enemy team to play poorly, less than it does you playing well.

4 Comments

chipndip1Nov 27, 20185 votes

THIS is the type of Yenn thread I'm used to.

WilyumNov 27, 20182 votes

3/10 of the top played champions in plat+ are junglers, comparing with top and mid which both have 0, jungle seems more favorable. 4/10 of the top win rates are also junglers. Every role is team dependent and junglers often have the highest capability to influence the lanes, top lane is limited in how much it could help bot lane but jungler has the choice to assist any lane

YennNov 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

3/10 of the top played champions in plat+ are junglers, comparing with top and mid which both have 0, jungle seems more favorable. 4/10 of the top win rates are also junglers. Every role is team dependent and junglers often have the highest capability to influence the lanes, top lane is limited in how much it could help bot lane but jungler has the choice to assist any lane

That's entirely wrong, but you probably don't understand because you're not playing at a Diamond level. Win rates are like that because there is only a very small pool of viable jungles, and they tend to shit on all the other jungles.

Jungle has the most capability to punish mistakes. It has zero influence unless there are mistakes to capitalize on. When people are consistently making less mistakes, the jungle has less agency over the game.

If all of your lanes are losing, you can't do anything useful. Ganking a lane that's behind (especially top) often turns into you dying. If all of your lanes are pushing, the best you can do is countergank, which turns into making intelligent guesses at where the enemy is going to be. There are also many champions that flat out cannot be ganked unless they push in. You can pressure them, but it doesn't have any significant impact over the outcome. With turret changes, you can no longer dive when your allies are pushing.

Match ups are also entirely binary. There are very few, almost no, skill match ups in the jungle. If you get caught in your jungle by the enemy jungler and you can't win a 1v1 or escape, you have to rely on your team to collapse. If they don't collapse, the enemy jungle can just walk all over you and completely shut you down, because you don't have a turret to farm under.

Also, because of ward changes, it's much harder to maintain control of your jungle if you flat out lose the 1v1 with the enemy jungler. You have to rely on your solo lanes to keep your entrances warded; your success is 100% reliant on them.

i.e. I had one game where the enemy Jarvan and I fought over scuttle at level 3. Jarvan's top and middle joined the fight, but only my top responded; my mid lane ignored us, even though they were pushed in to the turret. Jarvan got a double kill in the 3v2, then my mid laner finally came after we were dead, and died. He now has such a huge advantage that I cannot fight him, and he's aware that my mid laner is unresponsive. He's free to walk all over my jungle and I'm completely shut down, with no choice but to give him all of my camps if he invades.

WilyumNov 27, 20182 votes

Ah yes, the classiv you're not diamond so you are brainless argument, excellent. Well, you are diamond 5 with plat MMR so does that invalidate your point? 3/5 of the best players in NA are jungle and the 4th plays jungle as their secondary so this really is a dumb point. Anyways, lets move past the argument about rank because it is irrelevant. You say jungle has "zero influence unless there are mistakes to capitalize on", LOL buddy, this is literally every lane. Unless someone gets too close, gets caught, overextends, doesn't dodge, or any other number of mistakes almost nothing would ever happen and people would just farm.

If your lanes are losing you are right you often times cannot help, but as a laner if 2 lanes and your jungler are losing then often times you still cannot help. If your lanes are winning you go for jungle objectives, you get the dragon, you get the rift, you invade, you can dive depending on who you are playing. Having winning lanes means you can do literally anything as the jungler. Help a lane get tower, anything.

Having to choose strong junglers is unfortunate but that is not to say you do not have any choice and there is no skill. You need to be able to track the enemy jungler so that if you are a weaker jungler you can avoid them, and yes, if you are invaded you need your team to collapse. Which they can do if they are winning.

I do not understand your point about the Jarvan story. I play Warwick jg, I go bot and counter gank getting all 3 of the kills, I am now ahead, I invade, I win... if a jungler gets ahead they should win, if a laner gets ahead they should win. I am confused you make a bad call, get collapsed on, and assume your laners will come so jungle must be trash?