Buff Cut Down and Last Stand

Monstermushmush··21 votes·11,897 views

These two runes are extreme niche choices. I see nearly nobody running Cut Down because there are barely any tanks that can survive in this meta and Last Stand is just bad on everyone except Tryndamere and Kayle and Olaf . Coup De Grace is by far the most consistent.

Edit: Or nerf Coup De Grace. I just want the other two options to be more viable.

41 Comments

CauseSCIENCE7 votes

Last stand is also really good for kled

Somebody Love Me1 votes

{quoted}

Last stand is also really good for kled

Can't Olaf use it well too?

Z3Sleeper6 votes

More like, nerf Coup de Grace. Why is it the only one with a bonus on kill? Either give that to the rest of them, some other bonus or flat out remove it from Coup.

The reason everyone takes Coup is because:

  1. The gimmick isn't unreliable like the other two, just get them low and it works

  2. You get bonus stats for killing people

Why is the most reliable one of the 3 also the only one with an on-kill bonus?

I'm in favor of removal for the sake of toning down damage by making Coup on par with the other 2 rather than buffing the other 2 to match the best one.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Not everybody takes coup though.

There are plenty of champions whose playstyle synergizes with last stand which grants a bigger damage amp than coup that doesn't depend on your opponents health threshhold.

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

Last stand is already strong on its users, though. Kayle, Trynd, Aatrox, Kled, Kindred...Anyone who can sit at that low health threshold for a while is really strong with it.

Cut down is just not in meta right now. It doesn't need buffs, as it'll get much more use when tanks and juggernauts move back into meta.

TheWizardM2 votes

Cut down is just not in meta right now. It doesn't need buffs, as it'll get much more use when tanks and juggernauts move back into meta.

Though I absolutely agree, Riot is never going to let that happen - thet've been screwing over tanks for 2 seasons straight now.

Infernape14 votes

K A R T H U S

Alzon1 votes

Literally the best user of the rune by a landslide.

Rathar Dashing2 votes

I'd say Trynde comes pretty darned close.

Alzon1 votes

Single target vs AoE... Especially with a fully-boosted 5-man Requiem.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Trynde E is AoE, as is his item 3087. His damage is also much easier to land, and his ult is on half the cooldown. Trynde also doesn't have to worry about dying when he gets down to 1% health thanks to his ult, and has a self-heal along with the ability to get lifesteal on his damage.

Alzon1 votes

Hitting three or so people with a 300 damage Spinning Slash, plus a 300 damage Shiv proc on three people. The Shiv proc and Spinning Slash are likely to be used a second time, but only on one or two targets. 2400 total. Plus, let’s say half a dozen crits for 400 each. 5400 damage being boosted between autos and Shiv/spin. Trynd has probably five seconds between the time he starts hitting someone and the time his ult runs out.

Karthus has probably 10.5 seconds between the time he starts hitting someone and the time his passive runs out, with Zhonyas. Requiem hitting five people for 600 damage each. 3000. Each tick of Defile does another 150. Let’s say this hits two champions five times each, and another two champions twice. 2100. Let’s say he also lands two single-target Lay Wastes, and two double-target hits, for 600 and 300 damage respectively. 1800. This is a total of 6900 damage, more than 25% higher than Tryndamere’s output. Neither Wall of Pain nor Conqueror are factored.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Hence the "pretty darned close" clause. Also your arbitrary numbers for crit damage and lack of scaling ratios leaves a lot to be desired. Plus, flat-out damage isn't the only way to judge a rune's effectiveness. The fact that tryndemere can use the rune effectively without having to die also helps out quite a bit.

NichtHurz1 votes

Last stand on Kindred is kinda meh I think. Yeah, she can sit at low health with her ult, but anybody else can do as well during this time. You're so squishy that you really don't plan to go this low outside of these situations and your ults cooldown is way longer than Trynd ult or Kayle ult f.e. There are just way more situations where coup de grace is way better for you, especially due to Kindred's "execute"-bonus dmg on low hp targets.

The other mentions are legit, but for Kindred this rune is way too situational and requires you to get into situations you don't want to be in too often.

Monstermushmush1 votes

{quoted}

Last stand on Kindred is kinda meh I think. Yeah, she can sit at low health with her ult, but anybody else can do as well during this time. You're so squishy that you really don't plan to go this low outside of these situations and your ults cooldown is way longer than Trynd ult or Kayle ult f.e. There are just way more situations where coup de grace is way better for you, especially due to Kindred's "execute"-bonus dmg on low hp targets.

The other mentions are legit, but for Kindred this rune is way too situational and requires you to get into situations you don't want to be in too often.

Also... You can't kill other people in the circle so the bonus damage is useless lol

TheMinez1 votes

Forgot Singed

bokimane4 votes

Yea definitely. I see no point of adding new runes if we cant even utilize all the previous runes.

Tahminatrix 3 votes

I don't think buffing cutdown will help with the no tanks to kill problem though, it doesn't matter how much you buff the %, youll still most likely do the same damage to another squishy. Even lowering the damage threshold can be iffy.

Monstermushmush1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxsHUN63,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-03T06:03:59.628+0000)

I don't think buffing cutdown will help with the no tanks to kill problem though, it doesn't matter how much you buff the %, youll still most likely do the same damage to another squishy. Even lowering the damage threshold can be iffy.

What %? I don't really get what you're saying...

Tahminatrix 1 votes

Cutdown gives you % increased damage based on how much more max hp your target has compared to you.

It doesn't matter how much you buff the % because if there are no tanks, it will still be an iffy rune, and when there are tanks it will be overpowered af.

Reducing the thresholds before getting the % increased damage increments would just ruin the whole point of the rune and make it generic.

So there is no real way to buff it without reworking it.

wolvius3 votes

Just remove the 20 bonus gold on takedown from coup de grace or alternatively add it to the other options on the same tier as well. coup de grace doesn't need bonus gold ontop of also giving adaptive damage on takedown.

(Edit: I done goofed)

Just give last stand and cut down some bonus for takedowns as well; like give last stand 2.5-6% lifesteal for a few seconds after a takedown and something else for cut down.

PlsHelpIBlind2 votes

{quoted}

Just remove the 20 bonus gold on takedown from coup de grace or alternatively add it to the other options on the same tier as well. coup de grace doesn't need bonus gold ontop of also giving adaptive damage on takedown.

Coup de grace isn't giving bonus gold per takedown; triumph is.

wolvius1 votes

{quoted}

Coup de grace isn't giving bonus gold per takedown; triumph is.

Woops, I guess I miss-remembered it as having both adaptive damage and bonus gold on takedowns. Thanks.

Póppy Chulo1 votes

While we are on the topic already, why does triumph give gold anyways? Its already way better than the other two.

Rhai2 votes

Or Nerf Coup De Grace for less overall damage

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Just take away the takedown bonus and change the %damage modifier to something like "deal 5-10% increased damage to enemy champions, the lower health percentage they have. (starts at 5% at 40% health)"

Dracocrash2 votes

boards: "riot stop buffing damage, start nerfing instead!!!

Also boards : "Buff damage runes xd"

Ragnaveil1 votes

Im finding more success running last stand on Aatrox. It may not seem like much, but I feel like I get a better kick out of my damage and healing with this sub rune compared to like, revitalize and stuff.

Monstermushmush1 votes

{quoted}

Im finding more success running last stand on Aatrox. It may not seem like much, but I feel like I get a better kick out of my damage and healing with this sub rune compared to like, revitalize and stuff.

But wouldn't Coup De Grace be more consistent?

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Last stand is fine. As others have already said, there are plenty of champions that use it well.

Cut down on the otherhand almost never, probably doesn't even see play. The health differences between champions don't begin to show until at least mid game, so your already not gaining access to it until a certain point in the game and this is assuming the enemy builds health items to create that difference. Which also expects you to play a glass canon build in order to ensure there is a health difference.

Its essentially a rune for niche champions in a niche situation that needs to wait until at least mid game. If anything this rune should be removed or get a update.

Full Brain1 votes

Last stand is good on Kled Karthus Tryndamere and probably fine on Kindred Kayle I don't know how it interacts with shields so I can't say how it would be on Blitzcrank TahmKench.

Moody P1 votes

last stand is fine

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Cut down is niche. Last stand is almost always stronger than coupe de grace.

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

I think we just need more better Runes in general to increase rune choice diversity.

I hate that I as a Varus player have to constantly pick the same runes over and over again... (Legend: Alacrity, Coup De Grace, Gathering Storm, Celerity).

I think some rune suggestions for improvement would be:

  • Precision: Overheal (a weaker version of Bloodthirster Passive)
  • Precision: Presence of Mind (should belong on Sorcery)
  • Precision: Legend Runes (just dull stat runes, could be something more interesting)
Rathar Dashing1 votes

I think they should change cut-down to work better on targets with high health, not just targets with more health than you. It could be changed to "deal 1% increased damage to a target for each 400 maximum health they have." You could change it to only start working at a certain amount of max HP, too, like every 300 HP after 1000 gives a bonus.

Scorpio Szn1 votes

I take cut down on Jax when I’m against a team I know has the potential to reduce me to low health but not have the damage to the job (a team with heavy cc where legend tenacity and mercury treads are needed).

MrDrBudd1 votes

Since almost every champion in the game can take a champions life in 1 rotation due to the damage inflation the game has. Coup deal grace is generally the best choice.

Buffing the other 2 would just mean more damage inflation.

Can we nerf damage more before buffing anything?

Succubús GF1 votes

These two runes are extreme niche choices.

They are quite literally... niche runes by design

Mc Raton1 votes

Coup De Grace is better than Last Stand and Cut Down because of the bonus AD/AP it give on takedown. Add the same value or a sub passive to the other two and I bet you 20 bucks that people take them more often..

Edit: Reduce health gap of Cut down to 1500 or something, 2000 health more than you can take a while to acheive unless you face 3+ tank wich probly won't happen really much nowadays.

Kaìju1 votes

"Why is there so much damage Riot"

"Buff damage runes"

Monstermushmush1 votes

{quoted}

"Why is there so much damage Riot"

"Buff damage runes"

Or nerf Coup De Grace. Just to make the other options more viable.

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