@ Meddler: Are we playing the same game?

iTaLenTZ··74 votes·4,109 views

I really don't understand the choices of the balancing team. There seems to be a huge disparity between what Riots deems as OP or balanced and how we players feel about the choices being made by the balancing team.

Assasins are difficult to balance by definition as they offer no counterplay since an assasin's kit is designed to take kills in a short amount of time and make it out alive. Right now Akali can't do that so she is in a bad spot after her small rework. Nobody likes to play vs assasins. Once they are ahead the game becomes very linear. You either try to deny the assasin a window of opportunity or you face certain death. Ever enjoyed a game vs Rengar, Zed, Leblanc, Diana, Talon when they can 100-0 you in 0,1 second? I would say only Diana is in a balanced position state she needs to hit her Q to proc her damage so if you can dodge it she can't really kill you. The rest is just an awfull experience to play against. Then we have Rengar, Leblanc and Talon who literally have no counterplay. It becomes even worse when their lanephase also doesn't offer a way to shut them down. Leblanc and Zed are practically ungankable so you completely rely on your midlaner to not feed them because as a jungler you can hardly help.

Lets see who Riot decided to nerf in patch 5.24:

  • nerf Deathfire Touch
  • nerf Swain, Karthus, Malzahar, Rammus and Skarner
  • Generally nerfing tanks since their maseries got nerfed pretty hard

Really? Are we playing the same game? Did somene on the balancing team got his ass whiped by a Swain main since most of the Riot balancing team are in silver. I really can't come up with any reasonable arguments to nerf said champs after also nerfing their keystone which might had pushed them over the top. Nobody ever complained about these champs, they all have a low pickrate and a small base of mainplayers. Nobody ever felt these champs were unfun or unfair to play against. Skarner got reworked recently and after some nerfs he was already in a balanced state. These nerfs make no sense. and left most of them in a useless state for no reason.

Lets see who Riot decided NOT to effectively nerf in patch 5.24

  • Tahm Kench
  • Rengar
  • Buffing Leblanc
  • Buffing Zed
  • Jax/Irelia/Rageblade
  • Yasuo
  • Talon
  • Fiora
  • Generally buffing assasins with new mastery
  • Making Thunderlord by far the best Keystone. Nobody wants to realize it still, but this keystone is toxic by definition. It just gave assasins extra free damage while not doing anyting different than they were already doing and now you have to balance the game around that.

So Talon got a 54+% winrate for some months now but he doesn't get the same treatment Malzahar got just because he had a high winrate which got too high below diamond after DFT keystone. Basically Leblancs nerfs after months of complaining about her earlier in season 5 got reverted. Same goes for Zed. Then there is a huge disparity between how broken Tahm Kench feels for the players and how Riot thinks he is not sticky and has balanced damage. Still no words about Rengar after 2 years of complaining about him. Apparently him deleting champs in 0,01 second is balanced and fun.

In 5.24 they did the exact opposite of what the players see as balanced. Nerfing tanks same time as buffing assasins, nerfing champs players never heared of, buffing champs players said they already said were OP/Broken, not touching Rengar or Talon, Yasuo still toxic to play against, no nerf to Tahm. The game is going into the wrong direction and patch 6.1 will make it only worse by addind the Assasin Dagger item.

92 Comments

BluePolarizer48 votes

Champs also get dumpstered for no reason other than they don't want them to be played anymore (literally what they've said before).

Sejuani, Hecarim, Olaf, Evelynn and Skarner are all victims of this sort of policy.

Nahara8 votes

Source?

I know some champs are purposefully dumpster'd because their kits are completely unbalanceable without breaking the game (old Sion, old Olaf, old Poppy, Yorick), but it seems wrong that they would blatantly admit to dumpstering champions simply based on favoritism.

ImNotOriginal75 votes

{quoted}

Source?

I know some champs are purposefully dumpster'd because their kits are completely unbalanceable without breaking the game (old Sion, old Olaf, old Poppy, Yorick), but it seems wrong that they would blatantly admit to dumpstering champions simply based on favoritism.

I honestly don't get the problem with old olaf.

So yeah,okay,if you're immobile and squishy he just runs and you at kills you,instead lee sin #LcsBigPlays you into his team because you are immobile is better(/Zed ulting you/le blanc looking at you the wrong way/hell rengar doesn't care even if you have mobility),why is olaf so much worse than them?

Edge of Daybreak9 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't get the problem with old olaf.

So yeah,okay,if you're immobile and squishy he just runs and you at kills you,instead lee sin #LcsBigPlays you into his team because you are immobile is better(/Zed ulting you/le blanc looking at you the wrong way/hell rengar doesn't care even if you have mobility),why is olaf so much worse than them?

Old olaf was an issue because CC immunity. When you take away an entire teams ability to do anything in a situation its a hell of a lot stronger than lee sin that has to put himself in a similar situation diving into your team without the CC immunity. Zed ulting you has many more options than Olaf. The other two are just an issue of assassins only being relevant one way.

ImNotOriginal72 votes

{quoted}

Old olaf was an issue because CC immunity. When you take away an entire teams ability to do anything

Tanks can tank him,bruisers can fight him,that's what they do,adcs and mages can kite him and supports are generally unworthy of solo focus.

Only issue was immobile squishy mages and adcs,and those guys just get shat on by assassins anyway.

in a situation its a hell of a lot stronger than lee sin that has to put himself in a similar situation diving into your team without the CC immunity.

Except the speed of the combo and the fact he sets him up for the rest of his team,and not just tries to kill himself.

Zed ulting you has many more options than Olaf.

Like what,qss it? zed deals more than enough damage without his ult to kill later on in the game,and early on you won't rush qss. But yes,fair enough,with zed(unlike rengar) at least your allies can save you...kind of like they can with olaf.

The other two are just an issue of assassins only being relevant one way.

Have you even played against old olaf? to me it seems like you've never seen the guy,I can assure you zed,talon,rengar,le blanc all leave you with a lot less options than old olaf,and I much preferred playing against him than them.

Edge of Daybreak3 votes

{quoted}

Tanks can tank him,bruisers can fight him,that's what they do,adcs and mages can kite him and supports are generally unworthy of solo focus.

Thats fine and all but thats not what was happening in reality. Olaf was too good at being that guy who sat on your carry and killed them.

Only issue was immobile squishy mages and adcs,and those guys just get shat on by assassins anyway.

Yes assassins kill squishies. Olaf was a squishy killer who could also kill pretty much anyone due to his kit.

Except the speed of the combo and the fact he sets him up for the rest of his team,and not just tries to kill himself.

If he actually gets to Q in W or flash behind you and then ult you. Any CC will stop this and well he would die since he has to do this when surrounded by the enemy. You can also just dodge the Q.

Like what,qss it? zed deals more than enough damage without his ult to kill later on in the game,and early on you won't rush qss.

Just build zhonyas or CC him when he goes in. He is forced to stick around for at least 3 hits or in my preferred case just burst him faster Since you get a solid 3 seconds to deal with it. No matter what happens early game unless you fed the hell out of him he does not just kill you with Q E and an auto but shit happens in game that makes on paper situations not matter. No one is saying get Qss in laning phase. but if you are a carry and you know zed is going to kill you. I expect to see a Qss.

But yes,fair enough,with zed(unlike rengar) at least your allies can save you...kind of like they can with olaf.

No they can't that was the point. Your allies can only damage him. They cant peel him off of you at all. That's why he got nerfed so hard because he was a bruiser that killed you and no one could help you. You cant outplay CC immunity. You can only run and hope he isnt faster than you which he usually is.

Have you even played against old olaf? to me it seems like you've never seen the guy,I can assure you zed,talon,rengar,le blanc all leave you with a lot less options than old olaf,and I much preferred playing against him than them.

Duh? That was a stupid question. Would you like me to ask you if you have ever played against olaf because you disagree with me? Other champions being strong/annoying does not mean olaf wasn't. Zed was the only one even being consistently played in competitive when olaf got gutted.

ImNotOriginal71 votes

{quoted}

Thats fine and all but thats not what was happening in reality. Olaf was too good at being that guy who sat on your carry and killed them.

So you mean like rengar just that people actually complain about him and ban him?

Olaf was basically only a problem in competitive.

Yes assassins kill squishies. Olaf was a squishy killer who could also kill pretty much anyone due to his kit.

Unless that someone had mobility. "Oh look,the adc dashed,and olaf achieved nothing"

If he actually gets to Q in W or flash behind you and then ult you. Any CC will stop this and well he would die since he has to do this when surrounded by the enemy. You can also just dodge the Q.

Except that cc is delayed and lee is a tank,he also q's anything then ward hops behind you,or you know,skillshots eventually land if you spam them long enough.

just dodge the spears.

Just build zhonyas or CC him when he goes in.

...who boosted you out of bronze?

"just cc him"-classic bronze answer to right about anything

Edge of Daybreak2 votes

{quoted}

So you mean like rengar just that people actually complain about him and ban him?

Olaf was basically only a problem in competitive.

Yes and riot nerfs things for being good in competitive. Who is Azir?

Unless that someone had mobility. "Oh look,the adc dashed,and olaf achieved nothing"

So kalista since she is the only one would would actually be capable of doing that. clearly the mobility wasnt helping everyone else.

Except that cc is delayed and lee is a tank,he also q's anything then ward hops behind you,or you know,skillshots eventually land if you spam them long enough.

just dodge the spears.

If it takes the entire duration of lee Qing twice flashing or worse ward jumping behind me and ulting me for 0/5 people on my team doing anything then thats an elo issue. when it comes to skill based issues what else do you do other than dodge? Well I guess complain like it is impossible to do anything when clearly it isnt. I dont complain when a max range skillshot hits me. I had ample time to move.

...who boosted you out of bronze?

"just cc him"-classic bronze answer to right about anything

No that's the common sense response to counterplay but hey if you wanna be ignorant go ahead I wont stop you. 'Hey guiz this is op even though I can do things I wish to ignore the obvious, drown in ignorance, and cry.' I'm just getting your next post ready for you.

ImNotOriginal71 votes

{quoted}

Yes and riot nerfs things for being good in competitive. Who is Azir?

See here's the problem,olaf was olaf'd for being supposedly toxic,azir is still very strong in competitive,and in the right hands,olaf was kicked out of competitive and solo q for being obnoxious in an environment he wasn't considered a problem in.

So kalista since she is the only one would would actually be capable of doing that. clearly the mobility wasnt helping everyone else.

Of course people were capable of kiting him,it's just that having counterplay doesn't make you balanced,and he was overtuned in competitive play.

If it takes the entire duration of lee Qing twice flashing or worse ward jumping behind me and ulting me for 0/5 people on my team doing anything then thats an elo issue.

The combo is fast,very fast,only insta cast cc can stop it,and even that requires fast reactions,not to mention that it isn't a very common type of cc.

when it comes to skill based issues what else do you do other than dodge?

Pick something mobile which can mess up his combo,haven't you noticed this minor trend in mobility,not to mention that it is the whole fucking point?

"olaf shits on low mobile squishies,but so does lee sin"

Well I guess complain like it is impossible to do anything when clearly it isnt. I dont complain when a max range skillshot hits me. I had ample time to move.

Yes,we all saw how pros at the highest tiers of competitive play "just dodged nidalees spears",hell,no wonder lee is considered trash in competitive,all you have to do is dodge his q,oh wait...

No that's the common sense response to counterplay but hey if you wanna be ignorant go ahead I wont stop you.

You're just an arrogant kid offering simple answers which obviously don't answer the complex issues at hand,since even at the highest tiers of play the answer to champions like lee sin is generally "pick something mobile,or pick lee sin yourself",but yeah,you can "just cc his q".

'Hey guiz this is op even though I can do things I wish to ignore the obvious, drown in ignorance, and cry.' I'm just getting your next post ready for you.

"I'm a shitty player who likes to pretend I understand things that I don't",here,I summed up your next post.

blfUvZ8Ybu2 votes

{quoted}

See here's the problem,olaf was olaf'd for being supposedly toxic,azir is still very strong in competitive,and in the right hands,olaf was kicked out of competitive and solo q for being obnoxious in an environment he wasn't considered a problem in.

Of course people were capable of kiting him,it's just that having counterplay doesn't make you balanced,and he was overtuned in competitive play.

The combo is fast,very fast,only insta cast cc can stop it,and even that requires fast reactions,not to mention that it isn't a very common type of cc.

Pick something mobile which can mess up his combo,haven't you noticed this minor trend in mobility,not to mention that it is the whole fucking point?

"olaf shits on low mobile squishies,but so does lee sin"

Yes,we all saw how pros at the highest tiers of competitive play "just dodged nidalees spears",hell,no wonder lee is considered trash in competitive,all you have to do is dodge his q,oh wait...

You're just an arrogant kid offering simple answers which obviously don't answer the complex issues at hand,since even at the highest tiers of play the answer to champions like lee sin is generally "pick something mobile,or pick lee sin yourself",but yeah,you can "just cc his q".

"I'm a shitty player who likes to pretend I understand things that I don't",here,I summed up your next post.

No,Azir is useless in pro scene and trash in soloq.

The HeraId1 votes

{quoted}

Old olaf was an issue because CC immunity. When you take away an entire teams ability to do anything in a situation its a hell of a lot stronger than lee sin that has to put himself in a similar situation diving into your team without the CC immunity. Zed ulting you has many more options than Olaf. The other two are just an issue of assassins only being relevant one way.

As someone is plays a lot of olaf, I find myself dying doing what olaf is meant to do with no reward. Olaf is MEANT in my mind to obliterate carries like MF, Jinx, and to some degree excited vaynes, and with the game in it's current state, playing him outside of the jungle is basically pointless. I love olaf, I think he is fun, and will play him top regardless of if he is strong or not, but I had less issues with old Olaf then new. This Olaf presses R and unless he is ahead he will die for no purpose but to use enemy CDs.

Edge of Daybreak3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hefnd Rikir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qwAq70F1,comment-id=00010000000100000002,timestamp=2015-12-28T14:25:23.686+0000)

As someone is plays a lot of olaf, I find myself dying doing what olaf is meant to do with no reward. Olaf is MEANT in my mind to obliterate carries like MF, Jinx, and to some degree excited vaynes, and with the game in it's current state, playing him outside of the jungle is basically pointless. I love olaf, I think he is fun, and will play him to regardless of if he is strong or not, but I had less issues with old Olaf then new. This Olaf presses are and unless he is ahead he will die for no purpose but to use enemy CDs.

I would expect you to have had less issues with old olaf because he was just flat out stronger. He had more resistances and his items weren't all nerfed. Current olaf is not doing too poorly he still functions and if he somehow gets worse I'd expect riot to just stop his ult from taking his resist down.

I had way more success with Talon and kassasdin when they dealt more damage and had a silence. I couldn't tell you why.

The HeraId2 votes

{quoted}

I would expect you to have had less issues with old olaf because he was just flat out stronger. He had more resistances and his items weren't all nerfed. Current olaf is not doing too poorly he still functions and if he somehow gets worse I'd expect riot to just stop his ult from taking his resist down.

I had way more success with Talon and kassasdin when they dealt more damage and had a silence. I couldn't tell you why.

I meant facing, not playing.

Edge of Daybreak3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hefnd Rikir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qwAq70F1,comment-id=0001000000010000000200000000,timestamp=2015-12-28T15:14:07.414+0000)

I meant facing, not playing.

Q_Q but your post was about playing him. Well in that case Yeah new olaf is definitely not scary unless he is really ahead or I am completely immobile. Every now and then though you face the diamond olaf who reminds you why this is good. Kinda like an annual thing though

JAGMAG2 votes

well the problem is with zed, lee, leblanc even rengar the answer is to cc them before they blow you up or at least only let them halfway blow you up olaf ignores that

qetzel8 votes

This is a flat out lie. They have not said this.

SpongebobIsLife3 votes

no, they kind of did. But it was targeted moreso at sejuani. You can find the post on surrender@20, I believe it was posted around October or september

Anu3isII24 votes

Context:

Riot Time Wizard (NA) - 2 months ago

We tend to let champions like Sejuani [who thrived close to a 60% win rate for a while], level off after we nerf them in some way. We're not intending to leave them to die and be forgotten, but in the interest of keeping the live environment fresh, we don't want to rebound and throw more buffs at her, since she only just stopped being picked so much. She'll be back -- we're just trying to let other champions have some time in the spotlight!

Here is the post where this thing was discussed: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GjXml577-riot-please-give-us-an-explanation-on-this-worrisome-statement

qetzel12 votes

That is very different to "Champs also get dumpstered for no reason other than they don't want them to be played anymore". It is not the same thing.

Anu3isII16 votes

Yes , this is true , they had a reason to nerf Sejuani when Cinderhulk was released, but the fact that they actually balanced her around that item , and then nerfed the item... led to partially unnecessary nerfs.

People asked for partial reverts to her kit, like giving back some damage to her W for better clearing of the camps. But the fact that they don't want to do them because she had her "spotlight" means that they don't want her to continue being as powerful as the current favourites of the game.

As many mentioned, some champions were for years in the "spotlight"(and some still are) and that shows some favouritism. And I doubt they let any other junglers be as good as the standard "powerful" junglers.

ZGM Dazzling1 votes

This guy made a mistake jesus chill. Your literaly quoting the post he made BEFORE he backtracked and tried to explain what he MEANT.~~~~

(edit: talking about the rioter)

Anu3isII2 votes

Hey , I'm sorry if the stuff I wrote seems too serious/offensive , but all I wanted to do is to write my feelings about a champion I love since I started to play this game , Sejuani.

If I started to write about another similar case , like Warwick , I wouldn't even care if he got the revert or not.

So... Yeah, I maybe took his quote way too seriously, but it is just because I wanted to fight for my old bikini warrior ;)

ImNotOriginal729 votes

{quoted}

Champs also get dumpstered for no reason other than they don't want them to be played anymore (literally what they've said before).

Sejuani, Hecarim, Olaf, Evelynn and Skarner are all victims of this sort of policy.

Can these boards stop with their evelynn love? She's fucking cancer and everyone knows it.

This is why garbage like le blanc gets buffed,it's not very popular for 2 minutes and people forget how insanely obnoxious she is when strong,or even viable.

BluePolarizer2 votes

sort of like Zilean cancer bot lane with 60% win rate for people with 100+ games?

chipndip19 votes

{quoted}

sort of like Zilean cancer bot lane with 60% win rate for people with 100+ games?

When you master something no one even knows how to play against...you're gonna win more...

LordOfTheLeague2 votes

Sejuani is hella strong. No need to talk about her.

Hello Georgie1 votes

{quoted}

Champs also get dumpstered for no reason other than they don't want them to be played anymore (literally what they've said before).

Sejuani, Hecarim, Olaf, Evelynn and Skarner are all victims of this sort of policy.

Don't forget Kha'zix

iTaLenTZ1 votes

Just take a look at the champs they play and at which eelo. That explains their bias.

Slamurai Jack28 votes

No, they don't play the same game as you because they understand that this game isn't actually about kills. This community overwhelmingly overvalues killing power and undervalues things that actually win games, such as teamfight utility. Considering that you yourself play assassins basically never, it's not surprising that you overvalue what they bring to a team. As someone who plays every kind of champion at one point or another; Assassins are easily the most overrated class in the game. Mages, particularly control mages, are by far the most underrated. If you want to win games, pick CC tanks and control mages. If you want to look cool and have fun, pick Yasuo.

Moon Mom14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qwAq70F1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-28T07:34:18.590+0000)

No, they don't play the same game as you because they understand that this game isn't actually about kills. This community overwhelmingly overvalues killing power and undervalues things that actually win games, such as teamfight utility. Considering that you yourself play assassins basically never, it's not surprising that you overvalue what they bring to a team. As someone who plays every kind of champion at one point or another; Assassins are easily the most overrated class in the game. Mages, particularly control mages, are by far the most underrated. If you want to win games, pick CC tanks and control mages. If you want to look cool and have fun, pick Yasuo.

Pretty much what he said. Zed isn't that hard to deal with because he's countered by several items (QSS and zhonyas), leblancs the only one with an oppressive laning phase that i can think of (she falls off like a brick though), and rengar can be ccd to stop his ult from going off if you have good reactions. (Diana E, Janna R, Q, anivia wall, annie stun, blitz grab / silence / knockup, zyra snare / knockup. The list goes on).

Diana, talon and rengar get into the middle of the enemy team with the burst they provide. They either trade 1 for 1 or die (except Diana maybe with zhonyas if her team follows up).

CC tanks and control mages win games very easily, assassins just do damage and escape (some more situational than others).

If an assassin can't kill 1 target, they are useless and it becomes a 5v4 basically for your team.

Over Innsmouth7 votes

...I find Sion and Viktor fun...

Lovely Pants11 votes

Hm...too many tangents to talk about at once. Let's take one argument first.

Argument: Nobody likes to play vs. assassins

Counterpoint 1 - People like playing as assassins Assassins are always going to be popular when they are statistically near balance because they give people the kind of experience they love. It's more valuable to give people champions that do things they like than to make all design decisions based around what frustrates people most to face. There isn't much of a gain in removing whatever the popular brand of frustration of the month is. People don't like being burst down by assassins. People don't like being kited to death by ADCs and poke mages. People don't like being ground into dust by juggernauts. People don't like being stun-locked by CC champs.

Counterpoint 2- Anecdotal evidence on playing against them Well, I don't like playing against assassins in certain contexts, but let's avoid hyperbole. There are contexts where it is rewarding to play against assassins. When I'm playing a tanky disruptor or a strong cc/ally shielding champion I practically live for the experience of ruining an assassin's day. These are the kinds of champions I play 90% of the time, so on average I do actually personally enjoy playing against assassins as much as I like playing against any given champion.

Non-directed Rambling: In truth, assassins are often a class of champion that offer few options for an individual facing them, but many options for a team. It makes them frustrating to play against in soloqueue if you aren't happy with putting your trust in the hands of strangers.

If there is a problem with assassins, I think it's more that a handful of the champions in the (very ill-defined) class feel like you have to counterpick them if you want to have a fun experience laning against them. Essentially, they stack much of the risk/reward decisions you can take part in more on one side of the equation during this part of the game. It's not really that they give you less of a chance to win, as much as they limit the kinds of options other classes of champions they play against can do to achieve that victory. This is true for every matchup, really, but perhaps more true for assassins vs other squishies.

The boards seem to be in full panic mode because of the thought of introducing a new assassin item, but I'd like to see a class-wide sweep to give more definition in what the role of an assassin should be, personally. Make peace with the fact that assassins will always be in the game.

Partholonian2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lovely Pants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qwAq70F1,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-12-28T15:06:13.301+0000)

Well, I don't like playing against assassins in certain contexts, but let's avoid hyperbole. There are contexts where it is rewarding to play against assassins. When I'm playing a tanky disruptor or a strong cc/ally shielding champion I practically live for the experience of ruining an assassin's day. These are the kinds of champions I play 90% of the time, so on average I do actually personally enjoy playing against assassins as much as I like playing against any given champion.

I feel the same way, unless the assassin just gets ridiculously fed in other lanes and then I can't do enough even with good counterpick/play; but the funny thing is that playing effectively against assassins is when the assassin mains come to the boards to demand nerfs... to people like TahmKench. And like you said, assassins are always popular.

Saianna10 votes

Assasins are difficult to balance by definition as they offer no counterplay since an assasin's kit is designed to take kills in a short amount of time and make it out alive.

It used to be:

[...] since an assasin's kit is designed to take kills in a short amount of time and survive only if he managed to kill his targets (high risk, high rewrd)

Now when every assassin and their monthers have 3 dashes, 2 untargetables and few other tools to survive everything is screwed up.

HayRoss10 votes

Assassins are ruining the game?

Better nerf Rammus

1 800 MID LANE8 votes

You forgot this obnoxious thing. Fizz

I'm honestly not sure if he actually needs nerfed or not, as I've never played him, but damn that lane is annoying...

KONO RUBICK DA6 votes

{quoted}

You forgot this obnoxious thing. Fizz

I'm honestly not sure if he actually needs nerfed or not, as I've never played him, but damn that lane is annoying...

since fizz Q nerfs, and DFG added to his ulti, he can kill only one target and needs his ulti to do a lot of damage, you can build QSS to remove the DFG from his ulti or to get out of his ulti.

i admit that his E is bullshit i don't understand why it has 4 sec cd

ZephyrDrake6 votes

i'm pretty sure that if Riot did what everyone thought was balanced all we would see are noodle fights, farmfests and games lasting longer than 50 mins

ElysMustache5 votes

The assassins I see in my Elo kill people but exert less map pressure than me. They often lose the game even when "doing well".

For example, I laned against a Zed yesterday, and while he was roaming bot I took his tower and farmed. I ended the game 12/2/5 because he never did anything to stop me.

AquariusGine5 votes

I agree with this post, I feel that Riot is unfairly nerfing some champs because the testers got beaten by a champ they don't like

Shiyo Kozuki5 votes

Could not agree with the OP more. Riot are LITERALLY playing an entirely different game than the rest of us.

Fuck assassins. High reward low risk is bullshit design. They should be HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD and have extremely skill based kits with super high skill floors and ceilings but they're garbage like zed that just press R then mash buttons then W away with 0 risk of dying.

Dominick Destine4 votes

Good post, I agree with all of it.

+1'd you sir.

Spoofghoul4 votes

Assassins are feast or famine if they fall behind they wont do much harm.

But its already difficult to make them fall behind with all their invisibility mobility and untargetability.

If they get aheas they are a nightmare to face.

Assassins are sort of balanced around the fact that they have a decent early/midgame and need to snowball to stay ahead of the curve to have the most impact. The counterplay is to not let them pull ahead, generally speaking.

But then Rito balance logic comes along and decides to give them bonus burst aka thunderscrubs degree But bacuse that made life not easy enough Rito balance logic decided to add more flat penetration through items and the precision mastery.

Now assassins are killing tanks and squishies left and right but they still suffer abit from feast or famine playstyle you can still stay ahead of them. So Rito balance logic dictates this isnt right so lets add assassin dagger to allow them to still destroy anyone they want even if they fall behind. Because lets face it if they are snowballing they can't even use the extra damage because they will kill before the mark explodes, but if they are behind and can't kill their opponent the mark will. Efectively removing the last sliver of counterplay. . .

Fuck the Rito balance team they are delusional morons!

Biffolo4 votes

Probably not. They now balance around high-mid diamond, which is good, because they actually play the game correctly up there. They are the only players that truly play the game the way it was meant to be played, everyone below is doing it wrong. Swain has sat near a 55% win rate in plat+ for months now, but you can't justify a nerf on a champ literally 6 people play. So when his popularity spiked, it gives riot the card they need to nerf him, even if they've wanted to for a while. He's been eating soloq for months, and has probably had it coming.

LankPants2 votes

So when his popularity spiked

That didn't happen. Swain's pickrate spiked from 1.7% to 2.1%, such a spike.

DarthSpectrum4 votes

I understand your frustration; however, I think you are biased in your evaluation of assassins.

According to Champion.gg the top highest win rate champions do not include assassins at all (unless you count Wukong). http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend (Trundle gets repeated twice for his roles as jungle and top)

The truth is the assassins are frustrating to play against, but the only ones that are consistently delivering what they are suppose to are Rengar, Talon, and Shaco. It is easy to remember all the times Yasuo dashed around your team and Wind Walled your ultimates or Fiora landing the final vital in her Grand Challenge and turning a team fight, but the reality is that these champions do not perform on that level all the time.

Yasuo has so many counters (especially in draft pick) that I can no longer take anyone who complains about him seriously. Yes, his Wind Wall is a broken mechanic and should be changed, but the rest of his kit is not strong, just annoying. For Fiora, her ultimate can be dropped with QSS.

As well, even though Rage Blade Jax/Irelia can get out of hand, the truth is that in most games, they are not given the opportunity to snow ball. Their win rates are on par with everyone else's.

Most of the dominant champions right now in terms of win rate are tanks or mages. Subjectively assassins are infuriating to play against, but objectively tanks are just better. Is it really okay that one needs to scroll down to the 70th spot in order to find some of the main stream assassins such as Zed and Fizz?

Riot is currently releasing tank nerfs literally because tanks are strong right now. I know that win rate isn't everything, but the evidence strongly suggests that besides a few assassins, the majority of them are not optimal on this patch.

Riot isn't wrong in their decision to buff assassins either; however, they should also address how to make their game play more fun for both sides. Assassins are not overpowered, but they can feel a lot more difficult to deal with just because they are assassins.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

Yeah, this has been an issue for years, sadly most people only notice it around the time of esports. But their bureaucratic lies and increasing favoritism are making the game more stale by the patch.

Nagma2 votes

you should introduce the rgabage vision changes and the nerf of ap item .. :) and how the new mastery offer no diversity ..

Pika3102 votes

Thresh been a top pick since release?

Tahm Kench is OP?

Morg, Bard and Soraka crowding out other support mage picks?

#BetterNerfSona

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