The game is so much more enjoyable without Devourer

iTaLenTZ·Sep 26, 2015·237 votes·6,790 views

Can you just keep it disabled? I am actually seeing and enjoying Sejunai, Fiddlesticks, Rammus and Amumu being played again.

137 Comments

Meep ManSep 26, 201524 votes

I feel like there needs to be more anti-AA effects in this game or the current ones need to be stronger, like Thornmail. Devourer itself doesnt need a nerf.

AnidanSep 26, 20154 votes

The worst part is that they could try, and then people would bitch about them. People don't know what they want in this game. Somehow the game is only good when tanks are nigh-unkillable and assassins are considered pretty damn crappy (unless they have utility, a la Ahri). That's not really good game design, either.

RalanrSep 26, 20157 votes

So how is an assassin suppose to interact with a tank? It's the guy that's great at killing vs the guy that's great at not dying. How should they interact?

AnidanSep 26, 20153 votes

I'm not saying anything about the tank and assassin interaction. But notice how people prefer when Assassins can't even blow up a squishy, also known as: their job, or lack thereof in this case. Even Zed, who has one of the slowest bursts in the entire game for an assassin, is complained about.

Talon is only considered fine when he's bad. LeBlanc is only fine when she's also considered bad and out of the meta. Fizz is only considered fine when he is considered bad. Akali is only considered fine when she's bad. Same deal for Kassadin, Katarina, Irelia, Kha'zix, Rengar, Shaco and Zed. Now, should they be able to 100-0? Probably not.

This board would rather they were all completely reworked and deleted for the sake of counterplay without passing too much thought of the implications of that idea.

Dar RaksadaSep 27, 20159 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying anything about the tank and assassin interaction. But notice how people prefer when Assassins can't even blow up a squishy, also known as: their job, or lack thereof in this case. Even Zed, who has one of the slowest bursts in the entire game for an assassin, is complained about.

Talon is only considered fine when he's bad. LeBlanc is only fine when she's also considered bad and out of the meta. Fizz is only considered fine when he is considered bad. Akali is only considered fine when she's bad. Same deal for Kassadin, Katarina, Irelia, Kha'zix, Rengar, Shaco and Zed. Now, should they be able to 100-0? Probably not.

This board would rather they were all completely reworked and deleted for the sake of counterplay without passing too much thought of the implications of that idea.

The problem with zed isn't his burst, it's his laning phase waveclear/poke combination which was the first time that was seen on an assassin.

I Am LentSep 28, 20152 votes

WTF are you talking about lol. 'first time seen on an assassin'... what about LeBlanc, Akali, Lee (depending on your build), etc ... Zed was far from the first time a pokey assassin had good waveclear.

RozzetaSep 27, 20157 votes

Kindly proceed to describe your idea of healthy assassins, please.

RozzetaSep 27, 201514 votes

There was one. It was called dodge.

Riot got rid of it saying it was frustrating to miss a kill due to lucky dodges, yet didn't rebalance appropiately it's counterpart, the critical chance. Hence why ADC became mandatory as main damage dealer.

AnidanSep 27, 20152 votes

In fairness: someone has to scale like that in this game to kill tanks in a reliable manner. They also happen to be ranged (champions like Yi and Trynd excluded) so they're very good at sieging towers as well. That's why they're required, not necessarily because they're a primary damage dealer - they can siege exceptionally well in addition to their damage.

Back when Jax had his huge dodge chances going it was completely absurd trying to kill him. High dodge chance and very high defensive stats for building offense. Sorta like current Vladimir, but way worse.

RozzetaSep 27, 20152 votes

I personally think it was an issue of how the stat was delivered, more than the stat itself. It was a powerful stat capable of completely denying AA damage, yet you could get a considerable % just with runes and a mastery. It was something that should have been on a couple niche items.

BemaponSep 26, 201512 votes

I am still sad that Fidd doesnt have a jungle item though...

iainB85Sep 27, 201512 votes

Devourer was just the wrong way to enable attack speed based junglers.

Why can't Riot come up with an AS jungle item that doesn't involve ignoring lanes, farming, and emerging a raid boss? They are 0/2 now with first trying Feral Flare now doing the same thing, but worse, with Devourer.

One has to wonder what they are trying to accomplish?

Tails DollSep 27, 20153 votes

To be fair, Feral Flare was worst than Dev. At least we have a jungelr post 15 min.

Noctius28Sep 27, 20159 votes

Yeah really fun seeing Lee Sin in even MORE games... -_-

gubigubiSep 27, 20159 votes

Not having to worry about devourer is so freaking nice. I have started playing ranked again for the first time in almost a month.

Silents429Sep 26, 20158 votes

It puzzles me how people want diversity but only consider things diverse when a class they don't like no longer exists.

It's like people rather the entire strategy of counter picking shouldn't exist anymore, that you should be able to play the exact same champion every single game with no consequence. Sounds like a boring game personally.

RalanrSep 26, 20154 votes

Vayne says hi.

Silents429Sep 26, 20158 votes

Ashe Caitlyn Draven Laugh.

Ancestor007Sep 27, 20152 votes

She can Tumblr draven away from his axes. i think graves does better against her

XonraSep 26, 20157 votes

{quoted}

It puzzles me how people want diversity but only consider things diverse when a class they don't like no longer exists.

It's like people rather the entire strategy of counter picking shouldn't exist anymore, that you should be able to play the exact same champion every single game with no consequence. Sounds like a boring game personally.

We like having choices, options, diversity. When there are obvious good and bad picks (devourer is ridiculous in solo queue) it limits the diversity.

Cinderhulk popped in, it pushed out non tanks cause you were at a huge disadvantage not having tanks with cinderhulk
Sated is very strong still, and it puts you at a disadvantage, especially late, if you don't have one of those in solo queue, unless your jungler is really fed and hasn't gotten counter jungled to death (which is very easy to do with the champs that take Devourer).

I think people are still clinging onto tanks because they were useless as junglers for well over a year, they were back for less than half an LCS split time period wise, then nerfed and other things were all but pushed in to push them out of flavor of the month.

I would much rather see tanky champions that have to make decisions and play strategically than "derp farm duh jungle den come and auto attack" junglers. That is boring as hell.

Silents429Sep 26, 20154 votes

But that isn't diversity it's picking the lesser of 2 evils. Tanks ruling the meta sucked ass, it wasn't fun going against 3 of them every single game just like it isn't fun seeing a Jax heal his entire health bar with 2 auto attacks.

Tank meta was better, but it wasn't good.

XonraSep 26, 20157 votes

{quoted}

But that isn't diversity it's picking the lesser of 2 evils. Tanks ruling the meta sucked ass, it wasn't fun going against 3 of them every single game just like it isn't fun seeing a Jax heal his entire health bar with 2 auto attacks.

Tank meta was better, but it wasn't good.

I had no problem with tanks "ruling the meta" to be quite frank. I wouldn't have a problem with devourer jungles "ruling the meta" if they weren't pushing other junglers out of the jungle like lee sin did for nearly 2 straight years.

I am a bit biased as I enjoy playing tanks, no doubt, but the fact is both were bad at the end of the day and I won't argue that fact. The fact is just replacing tanks with something that pushes them out, then the next bad, overpowered item riot comes out with pushes them out, and so on. That is what has mostly dictated the Meta recently, an item or two, and that is very bad design and balance, which is the core of the entire problem. When ONE item (cinderhulk, old pre season 3 black cleaver and warmogs, pre nerf devourer) can dictate how the jungle will go, that is really really bad.

Silents429Sep 27, 20151 votes

It wasn't just Cinderhulk, They nerfed all the jungle mobs damage and buffed the gromp as well as a slew of buffs to majority of the tank junglers

I don't know how everyone forgets that part, but tanks can still be viable they just aren't dominating and people are seeing that as them being to weak now.

XonraSep 27, 20155 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't just Cinderhulk, They nerfed all the jungle mobs damage and buffed the gromp as well as a slew of buffs to majority of the tank junglers

I don't know how everyone forgets that part, but tanks can still be viable they just aren't dominating and people are seeing that as them being to weak now.

Sion got nerfs, Sejuani got nerfs, every armor item got nerfs, things like Thornmail are damn near useless now unless you are just ridiculous stacking armor, etc etc.

The reason people think tanks are weaker is because outside of Deadman's plate, every armor item was nerfed, and with sated junglers, there are even less ap champs "on the board" so to speak, to need to build as much MR against currently.

Vayne is the top tier adc, not someone like corki, so less MR, but shreds through tanks, as a single example (and I know it is an example beaten to death). Tanks are weaker because the tools against them are stronger, and the literal tools given to them were weakened, like cinderhulk, and the tanks themselves, outside of maybe Gragas, were hit multiple times, and not compensated back, since cinderhulk was significantly nerfed.

They are in fact weak right now, and I'm not saying useless or whatever, but they are weak in comparison to what they were. Sejuani is back to barely played status, Sion is almost brushed off the Rift, Gragas is pretty much the only tank left and he isn't an actual tank realistically as much as he is "tanky". If tanks were still really good people wouldn't have all but abandoned them, especially with how slow people are to change in solo queue (Darius and his ridiculous high ban rate even after he was nerfed for example), and tanks were dropped like they were on fire because they were hit pretty hard from multiple fronts.

tl;dr

tanks were nerfed tank items were nerfed anti-tank champions are prevalent and strong

ZT XperimentorSep 27, 20152 votes

Spot on

TurquoiseYoshiSep 26, 20157 votes

I haven't seen Sej in forever. The last Sej I saw was weeks ago. And it was me.

RIP Sejuani 5.5-5.7

Slamurai JackSep 26, 20156 votes

Disable the main counter to tank junglers and suddenly they do a lot better. What an amazing turn of events.

RalanrSep 26, 201530 votes

Quick question: What was the counter for devourer junglers?

If the answer is, "another devourer jungler" then there's a problem.

Plus not everyone is happy because they can seemingly climb easier. Some people just want to play their favorite champions to decent/good effect. Which they couldn't do as a tank jungler vs the devourer hypercarry.

And with tank junglers returning (and maybe Mage junglers) there is less pressure to play a tank top lane if the support didn't pick a tank.

XonraSep 26, 201513 votes

{quoted}

Quick question: What was the counter for devourer junglers?

If the answer is, "another devourer jungler" then there's a problem.

Plus not everyone is happy because they can seemingly climb easier. Some people just want to play their favorite champions to decent/good effect. Which they couldn't do as a tank jungler vs the devourer hypercarry.

And with tank junglers returning (and maybe Mage junglers) there is less pressure to play a tank top lane if the support didn't pick a tank.

This exactly. You can't really get away with playing a tank jungler as well right now because the likes of Yi or Xin can very easily just walk into your jungle and kill your camps before you can. Don't even have to fight you, then just walk back to their jungle before you even notice your camp is gone.

They clear so fast and have no real strategy past "get stacks. Auto attack things" and that's it really. They rarely have CC so they don't have to worry about that (the likes of Yi has no CC for example) compared to say, Sej, who has a slower start clear, very easily counter jungled, but has great cc for fights.

there is a trade off, but if the tank gets behind, they have to hope their teammates can pick up the slack. If the Devourer jungler gets behind? Just go back to farming and you'll be fine.

Slamurai JackSep 26, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Quick question: What was the counter for devourer junglers?

If the answer is, "another devourer jungler" then there's a problem.

Plus not everyone is happy because they can seemingly climb easier. Some people just want to play their favorite champions to decent/good effect. Which they couldn't do as a tank jungler vs the devourer hypercarry.

And with tank junglers returning (and maybe Mage junglers) there is less pressure to play a tank top lane if the support didn't pick a tank.

Wrong. The counter to a Devourer jungler is a Warrior jungler. Devourer junglers suck for the first 15 minutes where Warrior junglers dominate, both in terms of map pressure and dueling power. Any Devourer jungler is going to have a miserable time against a LeeSin Pantheon Khazix XinZhao Shaco that takes advantage of their power spikes and comes into your jungle constantly. Not to mention how much better their ganks and 2v2's are.

RalanrSep 26, 201510 votes

So...the enchant that was nerfed for awhile (5 AD) and provided armor penetration (armor was also nerfed and I can't remember seeing a lot of people outside of tanks building armor) is the counter to the farming auto attack enchant?

When was the last time you saw someone use the warrior enchantment before devourer was disabled? How often did you see it?

Slamurai JackSep 27, 20154 votes

Uh, all the time? Don't we usually complain how it's Lee Sin in every game? I don't know what elo you're playing it but I see Warrior junglers all the time up here.

RalanrSep 27, 20155 votes

Since I'm unranked I probably only face people of bronze Elo. Pretty much every jungler I see uses devourer. I only saw Lee use warrior once (perhaps my memory is bad) and that was because devourer was gone.

Yi is frustrating at lower Elo. I know the answer is CC, but he usually just shreds through people while he's dodging the CC.

I never claimed to be a great player. Just another who really hates having to deal with devourer Yi.

AbyssphereSep 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Since I'm unranked I probably only face people of bronze Elo. Pretty much every jungler I see uses devourer. I only saw Lee use warrior once (perhaps my memory is bad) and that was because devourer was gone.

Yi is frustrating at lower Elo. I know the answer is CC, but he usually just shreds through people while he's dodging the CC.

I never claimed to be a great player. Just another who really hates having to deal with devourer Yi.

Personally I'm unranked but I see Warrior a lot. Mostly Lee Sin of course, but Kha, Rengar and Jarvan aren't unseen either.

Silver FluffenbuSep 27, 20156 votes

One Ping to alert them all, One Yi to dive them, One CC to bait his Q... Goddamit morgana, dark bind him!

DorkunedAurasSep 27, 20152 votes

ALL

THE

YES!

I LOVE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW

Byakuya KuchikiSep 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Quick question: What was the counter for devourer junglers?

If the answer is, "another devourer jungler" then there's a problem.

Plus not everyone is happy because they can seemingly climb easier. Some people just want to play their favorite champions to decent/good effect. Which they couldn't do as a tank jungler vs the devourer hypercarry.

And with tank junglers returning (and maybe Mage junglers) there is less pressure to play a tank top lane if the support didn't pick a tank.

early game junglers

SentineIsSep 27, 20153 votes

The counter to devourer jungle? Any champion with clears and/or counterjungling capabilities. Devourer junglers have weak early games comparatively. The reason they dominate lower elo is because people don't know how to close out games before the devourer jungler hits their power spike, and don't actively try to deny the devourer stacks. Furthermore since the devourer jungler is farming most of the time an active early game jungler can have a huge impact early in the game and have more map presence then a devourer jungler while having superior dueling potential.

Tank junglers are countered by devourer, devourer junglers are countered by runeglaive or warrior junglers who have strong early games and intelligently use that to their advantage.

CupkekSep 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Quick question: What was the counter for devourer junglers?

If the answer is, "another devourer jungler" then there's a problem.

Plus not everyone is happy because they can seemingly climb easier. Some people just want to play their favorite champions to decent/good effect. Which they couldn't do as a tank jungler vs the devourer hypercarry.

And with tank junglers returning (and maybe Mage junglers) there is less pressure to play a tank top lane if the support didn't pick a tank.

Nunu

Yeah I know, it's not a real counter. But it's the closest we have.

MelledoneusSep 27, 20152 votes

Too bad Lee Sin wasn't disabled. He's that other counter to tank junglers.

JJI744Sep 26, 20156 votes

I am kinda curious, is devourer really that common at some rankings? Its kinda a rare sight in plat. I see mostly Warrior enchants, then a mix of the other 3 (with Runeglaive being the least common, then Devourer, and Cinderhulk).

XelviSep 27, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Can you just keep it disabled? I am actually seeing and enjoying Sejunai, Fiddlesticks, Rammus and Amumu being played again.

It's the most I've enjoyed the game since this stupid and unnecessary item was introduced into the game.

BlueclawsSep 26, 20154 votes

You mention tank junglers as though they are not good with devourer enabled. They just take a bit to get going.

RalanrSep 26, 201538 votes

Yeah, and usually devourer junglers will shut them down early as they run through their jungle to get sated.

iTaLenTZSep 26, 201526 votes

Exactly!!! I enjoy the game a lot more with tanky junglers who can't instakill the carry than tanky Sated junglers who instakill the carries and then proceed to kill the others as well. Slowers junglers with a lot more meaningfull decisions, tactics and fun teamfights make the game more enjoyable.

BlueclawsSep 26, 20154 votes

I would say the issue is with probably like Yi and Udyr who have a good early game just get crazy if fed and are fairly easy to play, but on the other hand if they cant close out the game quickly the other team can come back. It just depends.

Tanky junglers can be a real pain too, with the new bruiser items, Voli can be a real pain once he gets going.

Only Play DariusSep 26, 201542 votes

Lol did you really just say Yi has a good early game?

MelledoneusSep 27, 201510 votes

He meant Master Lee, not Master Yi.

Heavenly YashaSep 27, 20152 votes

Maybe you had to say "if you are against Master Yi you have to close out the game quickly or the other team is going to come back no matter what."

JFRANKSTASep 27, 20154 votes

so Shyvana Nocturne Kayle get to be forever irrelevant in the jung? there is nothing keeping you from playing Sejuani Amumu Rammus other then qqing over item 3710