karthus has a 33% win rate in diamond, swain 41%

KirbyCake·Jan 3, 2016·69 votes·3,893 views

revert the nerf and buff them, they are completely useless right now

http://www.bestbans.com/bestBans/diamond

73 Comments

Starfish HJan 3, 201623 votes

Hey look at that. Urgot is above half the people there and above Lee Sin. http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac117/dont_panic4242/GIFs/000865r2.gif

MagicDragon300Jan 3, 201620 votes

We know those three Diamond Urgot players know what they're doing then.

SquidblimpJan 3, 20163 votes

Did you forget about Urgot being picked a bunch during the tank meta? He's one of the biggest lane bullies in the game, in addition to being ranged, and he's really hard to all-in due to his shield and the damage reduction buff on his ult which was added during preseason. He also has one of the strongest mid games ever, and games right now are faster, so they usually end around the mid game. I'm personally not surprised.

Starfish HJan 4, 20162 votes

No, I just forgot about him being a playable champ.

MelledoneusJan 5, 20161 votes

I think most of the Lee Sins that lost were crybabies that didn't get what they wanted, so they AFK'd and lost their team the game.

Gregor GysiJan 3, 201617 votes

Eh? Your link shows a 44% winrate for Karthus and a 51% winrate for Swain..

And Tristana has a 46% winrate - stop using this page. I guess they use the data of the latest 24 hours or something and only of one region so that their samplesize is so low that you can't rely on the data. Use champion.gg instead, it uses plat+ only statistics and is way more reliable.

DecritJan 3, 20163 votes

Well this site does not look totally wrong, but as like every other statistical tool it does not "solve arguments" by itself but is just a mere tool to understand data.

... and i am not really sure how much it is wise to use this site at all for any kind of judgement. It shows winrates for each region and for each division as a way to determine what to ban ( which honestly is not the best way to ban things at all, if not for people that do not know how to think in ban phase) , and when judging scenarios like Diamond only on a server then you incur on a lot of small population problems. Still, looks like a nice gatherer of data, but i am not sure how much is actually usable.

Champion.gg, on the other hand, offers a choice more oriented for general cases since it studies a population that is big enough, but where baseline skill is similar ( but not too much, so it keeps a bit of realism to compare for all other elos ) and is more reliable to gauge the impact of a champion for general uses. Again it does not solve arguments by itself, even if many people make it appear so...

Gregor GysiJan 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Champion.gg, on the other hand, offers a choice more oriented for general cases since it studies a population that is big enough, but where baseline skill is similar ( but not too much, so it keeps a bit of realism to compare for all other elos ) and is more reliable to gauge the impact of a champion for general uses. Again it does not solve arguments by itself, even if many people make it appear so...

Agreed, data is incredibly useful, however it's dangerous as there are always some factors that are not included (eg the amount of normals that people have on that champion even though they only have 1-5 rankeds) and other irregularities that might lead one to wrong conclusions.

PennsJan 3, 201615 votes

And Tahm has 45% win rate Yasuo has 42% Vayne also only has 47%

useless

KirbyCakeJan 3, 20165 votes

actually all i see those champions do is lose yasuo does poorly more often than not most vaynes just get wrecked in lane

MatezoideJan 3, 20167 votes

Then you look at their pick and ban rates.

Edit: wtf, Heimerdinger at 34% win-rate? Bullshit.

Raid Boss MordeJan 3, 20163 votes

Heimer is at 44%

GrReaper96Jan 3, 20162 votes

Meh vayne kinda fell out of meta this season due to other adcs stomping

DecritJan 3, 201611 votes

This only shows how different pools showcase different statistical results, and how those needs to be takes with a grain of salt ( while it seems here there is too much salt already).

And in this case the player pool is so small that it can skew results by a lot, since diamonds are a really really low % of players which brings up a lot of issues about statistical research.

Please find better excuses that bringing up these results as truth.

SaiannaJan 3, 20162 votes

If so, then why is Riot already balancing things for diamond+?

It Hertz When IPJan 3, 20162 votes

Because LCS teams are not populated by Silvers.

SaiannaJan 4, 20161 votes

That's some stupid argument, really.

It Hertz When IPJan 4, 20161 votes

Never said I agreed with it.

TroiannJan 3, 201610 votes

Holy shit MIss Fortune is broken. Not even satire. Jesus christ that pickrate/winrate.

But if this site was reliable we'd have to buff yasuo too. And I don't want my favorite champ permabanned.

Indominus BladeJan 3, 20167 votes

Yasuo deserves buffs, he is too weak right now.

KnoyleJan 3, 20165 votes

If you are talking about having relatively lower base damage than other Fighter or Assassins, you MAY have a point. But having 100% crit in two items and a wall that shits on nearly every skill shot? Yeah, no...

Left Hook LarryJan 3, 20161 votes

Except that means nothing when he builds full AD and gets one shot if he goes anywhere near anyone in a teamfight. Yasuo was always weak until warloads. Then after they buffed warloads people, I am sheep of this community, complained still and they nerfed his items as well. Now he's trash tier 45% win rate champ. GJ bronzies

KnoyleJan 3, 20161 votes

If he goes full AD he should be 1 shotting anything that doesn't have tank in it's classification and if of course you would get killed easily if you went full AD but that all situational. And I am pretty sure a friggin projectile shield makes a big difference for you if you die easily any way.
You just said they buffed him after warlord so doesn't that mean he isn't weak now?
Yasuo has no personal items. They may have nerfed items he uses but that affects everyone that uses them not just him.
As far as I can tell the only thing "bronzies" did was lower his overall winrate since half the people only need to be slightly good to carry as Yasuo and many don't even accomplish that. The winrate doesn't even define the champ because it's mainly dependent on the player and how they use the champion. If all Lee Sin mains were god awful his winrate would be terrible but Lee Sin is far from being weak.
If you want to blame someone, you might want to look at riot for not looking at this the right way. Any mastery worth using seems kind of toxic but that's probably because they are the only ones of worth which doesn't bring much variety to the game at all if that's the case because who wants to use a shitty keystone?

Left Hook LarryJan 3, 20161 votes

If he goes full AD he should be 1 shotting anything

False, play him and realize that this is wrong, or stay bad

You just said they buffed him after warlord so doesn't that mean he isn't weak now?

They never buffed him. Warloads was nerfed to the ground

Yasuo has no personal items. They may have nerfed items he uses but that affects everyone that uses them not just him.

But Yasuo uses them the most and those where his core items. No one used SHiv as core as Yasuo did

The winrate doesn't even define the champ because it's mainly dependent on the player and how they use the champion

If you did your research you would realize that people with 125+ games on him (experienced players) on average only maintain a 49% win rate. Big problem here

KnoyleJan 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Savage Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qw4sMvht,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-03T23:45:01.567+0000)

False, play him and realize that this is wrong, or stay bad

I don't understand. Are you trying to say I'm bad because I don't play Yasuo? If so that's horrible reason. Not saying I'm good at this game but, that makes no sense at all. Also let me ask you, does an actually smart Yasuo go for full AD? If not the scenario where going full AD seems kind of invalid of only a fool would do so. On top of that the way you build affects how you get through the game greatly. My point is you are using hypothetical scenario that may not even happen that often or SHOULDN'T happen if the Yasuo knows what he is really doing.

They never buffed him. Warloads was nerfed to the ground

"Then after they buffed warloads people" <what's this statement mean then?

But Yasuo uses them the most and those where his core items. No one used SHiv as core as Yasuo did

XinZhao Tryndamere MissFortune Riven MasterYi All these I have seen use Shiv. Yasuo is not the only person who uses Shiv. He is not the only one who benefits from Shiv. The only thing that makes Shiv better on Yasuo is the crit passive. Nerfing Shiv is not a direct Nerf to yasuo because It does not only affect him.

If you did your research you would realize that people with 125+ games on him (experienced players) on average only maintain a 49% win rate. Big problem here

OK so a 49% winrate is bad? If anything this tells me, Yasuo needs no buffing at all and He should be fine where he stands unless he is literally only losing through being hard countered.

Left Hook LarryJan 4, 20162 votes

I don't understand. Are you trying to say I'm bad because I don't play Yasuo?

No, I'm calling you bad because you're trying to discuss a champ that you have no idea how he works and have never played him. All you're doing is pulling BS out of your ass

"Then after they buffed warloads people" <what's this statement mean then?

Warloads was broken, so he was strong. Then they nerfed it to the ground along with his items and he became trash tier

All these I have seen use Shiv. Yasuo is not the only person who uses Shiv. He is not the only one who benefits from Shiv. The only thing that makes Shiv better on Yasuo is the crit passive. Nerfing Shiv is not a direct Nerf to yasuo because It does not only affect him.

Xin never rushed shiv nor does he even buy it. Shiv is the worst item on Riven LOL this proves you don't know what you're talking about. None of those champs had shiv as strong core item must rush as Yasuo except maybe trynd. Please stop

OK so a 49% winrate is bad? If anything this tells me, Yasuo needs no buffing at all and He should be fine where he stands unless he is literally only losing through being hard countered.

49% win rate on the experienced players IS BAD. If you're putting in a lot of time to learn him and still can't maintain a good win rate then there's a problem. Look at the win rates of other champs with experienced players. I'll use Anivia for example. Her avg total win rate is 50%, but experienced players avg a 57% win rate.

Yasuo has a avg total of 45% and experienced players avg a 49% win rate. REALLY BAD

KnoyleJan 4, 20161 votes

I feel like you are missing the point I am trying to make or refuse to see it because you want to just say I am stupid and bad at this game. So I'll Tl:Dr it for you.

Yasuo is strong as he stands. His crit and kit make him so. He sure as hell doesn't need a buff unless we are trying to make Tanks completely pointless.

Please don't get too bent out of shape over some guy speaking his opinion on the internet. I'm not important.

Left Hook LarryJan 4, 20161 votes

But he's not strong. He's weak with average at best. His kit isn't looks amazing on paper, but isn't that great when y ou play him.

aura trifireJan 4, 20161 votes

Um, yasuo is really good on yasuo compositions...

Left Hook LarryJan 4, 20161 votes

So Yasuo is good in team comps designed perfectly for him? Next you're going to tell me that grass is green

aura trifireJan 4, 20161 votes

Yasuo isn't a trash tier champion lol. I think he is healthy. In addition to the regular win rate u also have to look at the win rate of the mains and pick rate.

Left Hook LarryJan 4, 20162 votes

I already explained that people who are considered experienced yasuo players are averaging a 49% win rate, which shows that Yasuo isn't good right now. Catch up buddy

SaltyKrackaJan 3, 201610 votes

Try using non-shit stats sites.

TheOvermindJan 3, 20164 votes

Swains and karthus w are a complete joke right now , like honestly what were they thinking , revert and buff like op said. Up voted

Cheese PopeJan 3, 20164 votes

Singed has a 18% win rate in Korea Master and Challenger with a pick rate of .1%

item 3070 Singed

Raid Boss MordeJan 3, 20164 votes

33%? Karthus has 43%.... you know who DOES have 33% there?

T-T Mordekaiser item 3070

MrWasjigJan 3, 20163 votes

What? Riot? Admit they fucked up?

Don't mind me (pulls out telescope) just waiting for the planets to align

JJI744Jan 4, 20163 votes

The very sight you linked shows Karth at 43%, and Swain at 51%. Either A) You mistyped and put the values 10% lower than they are or B) That sight is looking at too small of a timeframe, and has some wildly fluctuating data as a result.

Dominick DestineJan 3, 20162 votes

No no, they need to nerf Skarner, Swain, Anivia and Karthus... but buff Riven and Zed.

Best balance Somalia.

TurquoiseYoshiJan 3, 20162 votes

That appears to be literally the worst stats site I have ever seen. And it doesn't even say what you said. Swain even has a >50% win rate. On a real stats site that gives decent data, it says that Swain and Karthus are slightly below average. Reverting the nerfs even seems excessive. Partially reverting the nerfs and not buffing seems like a better idea.

blfUvZ8YbuJan 3, 20162 votes

Azir %30.Where are the empty-speaking people.Azir is fine right hands bla bla bla.Same old arguments.Silly.

RisenDarkKnightJan 3, 20162 votes

I just checked that site and it said swain had a 51.44% winrate and karthus 43.5%. I used to main swain so I'd like to see the nerf reverted, but either the sample sizes are so small that the winrates on that website change dramatically everyday, or you are misrepresenting statistics.