Can we have Masteries that promote Mastery of the game?

DrugsForRobots··14 votes·1,392 views

One thing that's always left me a bit confused...

They're called 'Masteries' but they don't actually promote Mastery of the game, AFAIK. All of our options are stat related with the occasional conditional effect or something. (Keystones obviously being powerful enough to be an outright item effect.)

There is this idea in game design that if you're designing a game you want rules and mechanics that encourage the kind of gameplay you (the designer) would like to see / want the player engaged in.

So what kind of gameplay does Riot want to encourage? Well, I would think peeling for your allies, focusing the same target, contesting and taking objectives, using the minion waves effectively, scoring kills and assists, invading the enemy jungle, warding, grouping, etc, etc.

For example, we don't actually have a mastery that rewards last-hitting. We have the 'Savagery' mastery, but that facilitates last-hitting, but it doesn't actually reward, or put the emphasis on, scoring the last hit. Likewise, we don't actually have a mastery that rewards us for warding or finding wards - both behaviors that you would think Riot wants to encourage in its players, since both actually indicate mastery of the game and are closely related to skill and rank.

So rather than:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/58/Butcher_mastery_s4.png/revision/latest?cb=20131121235724 Basic attacks and single target spells deal 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 bonus damage to minions and monsters.

We'd have:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/58/Butcher_mastery_s4.png/revision/latest?cb=20131121235724 Scoring the last hit on a minion or monster grants X addition gold.

This is just an example. Riot would obviously have to rework the trees and come up with some new effects that promote Mastery, which would probably be harder than thinking up bonus stat and conditional combat effects.

Can I get a Rioter's thoughts on this?

Edit: LoL Design Values: In-depth w/ Mastery, ft. Zileas

16 Comments

Tails90164 votes

I thought they're called "masteries" because you put points into that part of the mastery tree.

Piercing Ice2 votes

lol true

DrugsForRobots1 votes

So you see the disconnect between calling them 'Masteries' and the lack of promoting 'Mastery' (one of Riot's core design values)?

Spoofghoul2 votes

Lol peeps it's an example

a bad one though, killing minions already gives you gold, but still an example obviously you already get gold and xp as a reward for killing minions so perhaps something different would be more suitable

What OP wants is conditional power and rewards from masteries

think of things like kalista's oathsworn where you both need to hit a champion, we already have something like it called expose weakness giving allies greater damage, but perhaps something better would be attack someone recently attacked by an ally to deal bonus damage yourself. This puts the responsibility of taking advantage in the players own hands In this case focusing the same target to more quickly dispose of them and win a fight

And i really like this approach to masteries

I think they can co exist with some stat boosts, but i do think the main stats which should be boosted through masteries should be sustain or defensive in nature % increases everywhere are bad

I like some of the new defense masteries like gain extra armor/mr when you are damaged or near a an allied turret (should just be all turrets including fallen imho)

We could have masteries which could do crazy things like ward conversion, allowing you to ''capture'' and enemy ward and make it your own by killing it. this would need a decent cooldown though otherwise it be broken xD

Or a Monsterslayer mastery which grants bonus effects for killing monsters or epic monsters Like the previous jungle monster buffs, with an extra keystone upgrade down the line giving additional benefits to slaying drakes heralds and baron's and elder drake

Masteries which put more emphasis on doing actual gameplay related stuff ratehr then boring % boosts of different variety like we have now

DrugsForRobots1 votes

Yes, you've got the right idea. A reverse 'Expose Weakness' would be nice.

Some more examples:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/7/7b/Swiftness_mastery_s4.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/20?cb=20131122000449 "Grants 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15% Tenacity and Slow Resist." becomes something like "Grants 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15% Tenacity and Slow Resist while moving toward allies." (To encourage peeling.)

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/a/a7/Legendary_Guardian_mastery_s4.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/20?cb=20131122000553 "Grants 0.6 / 1.2 / 1.8 / 2.4 / 3 bonus armor and magic resistance for each nearby enemy champion." becomes "Grants 0.6 / 1.2 / 1.8 / 2.4 / 3 bonus armor and magic resistance for each nearby allied champion." (To encourage grouping.)

A Mastery that encouraged / emphasized kiting would also be great, IMO.

Obviously some of our current Masteries lend themselves toward these designs easier than others. Just thoughts.

Spoofghoul1 votes

i think legendary guardian is actually fine how it is ^^ it's like my fav anti facecheck tool, hey my armor went up there is someone in that bush haha

But i hope we get to see more gameplay related conditional masteries those are always the most interesting

So far the weakest tree of them all, resolve has the most of these kind of masteries maybe riot can do a midseason mastery update

Aseraan1 votes

would be unbalanced so no also lol its a lot more unbalanced since "free damage" masteries came in i still hate them

OH and also u should not be rewarded for using wards its a reward by itself for u being safe for a period of time by it and im sry IM sry but last hitting is rewarded called GOLD.

DrugsForRobots9 votes

It's true that warding and last-hitting are their own rewards, but consider the implications for new players or lower-skill players.

They would, by virtue of reading the Masteries, be introduced to the games fundamental concepts. They would be encouraged and rewarded for something that (while impactful) may not be all that noticeable at 1st glance (such as warding) or that they had taken for granted (such as how a minion wave deals tons of damage) or that they weren't even aware of (such as peeling for your allies).

Yaśuo Main1 votes

Ok, since its that "broken", instead of being REWARDED for getting a cs, say getting 80 CS every ten minutes, you get 300 gold after every ten minutes if it meets the requirements.

Arakadia2 votes

By that logic we should remove the xp and gold that champion kills give because it already rewards you with options AND map control.

Additionally, we should remove the gold and xp on minions because killing them already helps you splitpush, so no further rewards are needed.

SlashStriker1 votes

{quoted}

would be unbalanced so no also lol its a lot more unbalanced since "free damage" masteries came in i still hate them

OH and also u should not be rewarded for using wards its a reward by itself for u being safe for a period of time by it and im sry IM sry but last hitting is rewarded called GOLD.

This "free damage" is to help champions who lack auto attack damage and need to farm some way. Yeah sure you get Yi and there is pretty low to no chance that you wont be able to farm with your basic attack. But AP champions like Ahri for instance have good damage but her wave clear compared to Ryze ain't good and those AP champions wont build AD so their basic attacks is pretty much non existent

SlashStriker1 votes

I don't think thats good idea this kind of mastery suggest that you should afk farming more

The game should be based around teamfights or securing objectives like towers and inhibitors

DrugsForRobots1 votes

That was one example. I specifically mention taking objectives, grouping, peeling, and assisting as all things Riot could encourage players to do via masteries (and thus promote higher-level play and the development of skill and teamwork).

Also, rewarding players for getting the last hit is different from rewarding them for AFK farming. A reward for AFK farming would probably resemble Cull's special: "After reaching 300 CS, get 500K gold" which isn't what I'm advocating.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I think they're called "masteries" because they're skills you can choose to have your champions "master" as you level up to 30, much like attributes or passive points or skill trees in other games. The name isn't meant to suggest they help you master game mechanics, it's meant to remind you of RPG-style skill trees.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

I'm aware of the old-school skill-trees. The 'Masteries' are clearly derived from them, yes.

I'm not asking why they're called 'Masteries' but why Riot doesn't take this opportunity to promote the kind of gameplay they want to see (by their own admission) using one of their systems that has routinely given them issues (and ever since the introduction of Keystones, has warped the game) AKA the 'Masteries'.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Well masteries are supposed to (in theory) give you a bit of customizability over your champion, although obviously they aren't really doing a great job of that at the moment.

In general, League doesn't reward you more for doing things you should already be doing. Last-hitting minions is something you should already be doing. Taking objectives, warding, and peeling for your teammates are all things you should be doing already, because doing them yields its own reward (a dragon buff, or map pressure, and an alive teammate are their own reward).

There are several of the masteries that already DO encourage certain playstyles. "Grants 0.6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3.0 Armor and MR per nearby enemy champion" tells you, as the frontline, to go be the frontline and engage on the enemy. "Grants 2% increased damage against enemy champions when no allies are nearby" encourages you, as an assassin, to roam and pick off lone enemies. "Gain 1g when a nearby minion dies. Gain 3g/10g when hitting an enemy champion with a basic attack . . ." encourages supports to not worry about CSing, instead focusing on harassing enemies with AAs when they get a chance.

I think these are the more interesting types of masteries, but certainly it seems like Riot does use them to either reward or encourage certain styles of gameplay. The problem is that there are too many "strictly better/strictly worse" options, and there is a lot of always-on stat stick in the mastery tree.

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