The Problem With Black Cleaver

Meep Man··3 votes·821 views

item 3036 Lord Dominik's Regards +50 AD +45% Bonus Armor Penetration for only the user of the item +15% Damage Against Champions with 1000 More Health Than You

item 3071 Black Cleaver +400 Health +40 Attack Damage +20% Cool Down Reduction +30% Total Armor Penetration for everyone on your team after hitting them 6 times

See the issue here? Black Cleaver's armor penetration is better than the Last Whisper items in almost every way except that it is less burst oriented since you have to stack it first. What am I saying? I'm saying Black Cleaver will always outrank Last Whisper items with it's current design. It would have to give little to no attack damage for DPS champions to consider Last Whisper over Black Cleaver UNLESS they can't hit someone more than 6 times with any kind of physical damage tick. Black Cleaver needs an update. It is like the old Rylai's. It is far too global an item and the last tweak to it targeted the wrong part of it. It's too global an item because it's efficient against every kind of target and is efficient on every physical damage dealer that isn't some kind of Assassin that bursts someone down in 2-3 hits, even though even then the CDR might make up for that fact.

5 Comments

Dabrick011 votes

They nerfed it a while back. It is mainly for Bruisers now, but you have so sacrifice some AD for it.

Meep Man1 votes

10 AD and 15% reduced damage against Tanks? Is that worth it for 400 HP, 20% CDR, and Total Armor Penetration instead of Bonus? Yes. It sounds like more than a fair trade to me.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qtm4yfEQ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-19T08:43:06.605+0000)

10 AD and 15% reduced damage against Tanks? Is that worth it for 400 HP, 20% CDR, and Total Armor Penetration instead of Bonus? Yes. It sounds like more than a fair trade to me.

Well, let's see, someone needs 200 bonus armor for LW's armor pen to outclass Cleaver's. item 3143 item 3068 item 3047 gets them to~150. Their passive stat boosts may add an addition 30 or so, like Garen and Poppy.

That being said, LDR gives up to 15% bonus damage. That greatly outclasses the extra 30 armor pen from Cleaver.

Keep in mind that ADC's are in general, the worst class for CDR. They have little need of it due to being auto attack based, for the most part.

The 400 HP is indeed nice, but it would be a trade off, damage for tankiness.

Also, LDR has a better build path, with 45% armor pen from the start with LW. With Cleaver, you gotta pay the whole 3k before you get any sort of armor pen.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

They nerfed it a while back. It is mainly for Bruisers now, but you have so sacrifice some AD for it.

It effects the enemy champs stats so one champ having it means that everyone's physical damage gets increased by roughly 40%

Dynikus1 votes

It is like the old Rylai's

It's actually a lot more like current morellonomicon.

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