It's a good feeling winning top and mid, but then bot tower goes down and you realize you've lost

Blåbæret·Jan 1, 2017·78 votes·3,598 views

Nice game. Very fun.

44 Comments

Hayaishi2Jan 1, 201735 votes

It's a good feeling winning bot but then mid and top tower go down and you realize you've lost.

BlueBilberryJan 2, 20174 votes

Been on both sides of the coin. But even when the botlane is lost, it's worth checking out the type of support you have and seeing whether the support can still do his or her job even though the lane was lost. Supports are in the unique position, where despite having to work with a suicidal adc in the early part of the game, can still help the remaining lanes carry the game to victory.

Smitty ManjensenJan 2, 201711 votes

{quoted}

It's a good feeling winning bot but then mid and top tower go down and you realize you've lost.

Let me correct you:

It's a good feeling winning bot until a 5 man gank.

Risk of FateJan 1, 201723 votes

If top and mid are winning, why aren't they roaming? Jungler and Mid should be going down there to shove that turret in or at the very least secure objectives. I've had games where our bot lost hard, yet we managed to turn it around because our mid or myself as mid rotated down there to take care of the problem while top went to shove the wave in.

This is the thing people seem to forget: bot lane is a literal swing set. Whoever gets the first kill down there turns the tide and makes it impossible for the enemy laners to recover without outside help. It doesn't matter that your Caitlyn just went 3-0 in lane because their Rengar decided to go down along with LeBlanc to tower dive for an easy double and tower.

Imagine the momentum of the entire game being decided by who's the first to go into team-mode earlier. It's not "oh bot lane is deciding factor" it's that bot lane is easiest to get snowballing so it's beneficial to get that tower as fast as possible for 700+ gold plus 200 or so for the entire team (I don't know what the global gold numbers are, but it's usually enough that it helps me finish one part of an item)

It is the roam meta. Champions with high mobility can get easier momentum going against passive/defensive teams simply because when one tower falls, the rest become so much easier.

Colombo16Jan 2, 20176 votes

Dude stop making sense, you'll just confuse people who are on the bot circlejerk right now. It's basically gone around in cycles, and now the boards are complaining about bot every single day instead of trying to find solutions. I mean, the guy is totally right, if mid and top win, which is basically 2/3 lanes, but bot loses, you just auto lose, you have 0 counterplay and if top and mid are winning and don't roam, it's bots fault for not warding when they get 4 man dived, it's never their fault. I mean, who wants to read the map anyway? It's too complicated, might as well stay in lane while your laner knows that he lost the lane and starts roaming. Oh the horror of having 2 carry threats get fed vs either 1 or 2.

Risk of FateJan 2, 201717 votes

Jinx Lux Uh, hey they're really pushing us under tower and our ward just died. Could someone maybe come down here and help? We feel like we might die here. LeeSin Sorry, no vision. Can't gank. Leblanc pings Enemy is Missing. Stays in lane. Lux Well, shit.

Rengar Tristana Thresh Cassiopeia Gangplank has slain an ally. Red Team has destroyed an ally tower

LeeSin God this bot lane is trash, they just threw this game for us.

Me: https://38.media.tumblr.com/a796ea39132fce411ab74f40772041c6/tumblr_n4zs54aTn41tq5997o1_500.gif

Papa AndreiJan 2, 20175 votes

Quite literally the game i just played.

Renekton top lane went full ad even after feeding and losing lane horribly. lost tower at 4-5 minutes in. Lee and Jarvan then roam bot nonstop. Ryze midlane just ults botlane and our Ahri just sits there saying "ward" "ward stops ganks and tower dives" :) why do i play this game again

CookyPrinceJan 2, 20179 votes

LeeSin "no vision"

Jet SettJan 2, 20172 votes

I mean Lee can jungle in the area close to bot, but without vision he just has to prepare to countergank in a position much farther away than he usually would, which has the possibility of wasting his time regardless of whether or not they come down because it's entirely possible they get there and achieve their goal before he can react.

I always leave bot at the first sign of trouble I can't deal with, like tower is 19% and mid is missing or jg has been spotted nearby.

Fuck that LeBlanc though unless she managed to get turret.

Risk of FateJan 2, 20173 votes

They never do and even if we leave turret "OMG WHY DID YOU ABANDON LANE?????"

Idk, maybe because tower's under half dead, they just grabbed dragon so assuming their jungle is near and you're complaining about it not being warded after I ping to take the stupid thing after we get a double kill bot.

Jet SettJan 2, 20171 votes

I know how you feel, the worst thing that ever happens is the jungler not taking advantage of a lane's pressure or presence.

BlueBilberryJan 2, 20172 votes

Problem: sometimes the other laners will roam down to the bottom and make matters worse: e.g., leaving no assists, taxing the lane, etc. It requires a bit of common sense. The potential roamer has to ask themselves: "when I roam to that lane, am I able to leave them in better shape than they were before?" If the answer is yes, then roam down and help. If the answer is no, then seek the best opportunity where you can get them into a position where they can turn it around. In the meantime, hope that they either: (a) bolster their position and get ready to be carried; or (b) actually get a lucky window where they can start to turn it around.

These days you need more than one person to carry. (That is, 2 players with good KDAs seems to mean that a bit of random luck could lead to a won game; 2.5 players with good KDAs are usually enough for decent winning chances). When there is one fed person in a carry position with the rest of the team in a deprived state, it often means that there is one overpriced minion wandering the Rift, looking to be a hero.

Risk of FateJan 2, 20171 votes

That was the case before, but now I can't make the choice of "should I roam or not?" because as soon as my lane goes down there, jungle is also there. Now the question becomes, "Are they able to hold off a 2v4 or not?" Being the Support down there, it's almost impossible to do it to the point that I'm tempted to ditch the tower altogether when it happens because they will and have burned everything to secure the kills. It could just be just the jungler, and they'd still burn 3 flashes for a kill on me only to return about 5 minutes later with the mid laner to finish the job.

I cannot stall 2v4s. I'm only skilled enough to turn a 2v3 around into either a near escape or even a double/triple kill and that's if I'm in a favorable position and know exactly what to do. When you add the fourth person, it becomes infinitely harder as they easily close in. So which should happen when in that position, assuming that I know it is coming either through vision or intuition (the latter I mostly rely on now because wards have become that much more valuable), should we defend the tower and stall which usually ends up getting one or both of us killed or just let them take it?

Whenever we ping jungler to come help, they never do or are on the other side of the map. We have to be careful of our back as 3 people can take it in one minion wave, that's how flimsy they are. I would love to be able to defend down there, it's just a loaded task when there are constant hard camps down there where the enemy laners try to burn summoners to make tower diving that much easier.

Edit: Should mention I'm a Mid/Support main, map control tends to be my specialty. As soon as I get a ward in the enemy jungle, the game is over for me because I tend to infest the entire map.

SNSD SunnnyJan 1, 20176 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2388483936/47022294?tab=overview

let's see, our bot lane got crushed yet we still won. hhmmmmmm

Asayake 5150glowJan 1, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=SNSD Sunnny,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qsPFT0WQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-01T19:11:46.919+0000)

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2388483936/47022294?tab=overview

let's see, our bot lane got crushed yet we still won. hhmmmmmm

Cait with no Runaans... sigh

KraDEsluP282Jan 1, 20174 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2388734594/230335774?tab=overview

Udyr players being udyr players.

notice me Sin piJan 2, 20174 votes

it's a good feeling winning bot lane, but then enemy top uses summoner 12 , and enemy mid&jungle roams bot and 15sec later bot tower poofed into nowhere

AptestJan 1, 20173 votes

Its a great feeling losing bot tower, and then top enemy tower falls and you realize you're still in the game.

well played, poppy.

ziffreJan 2, 20173 votes

This is clearly exaggeration. People referred bottom lane as the most important lane to win because it has the easiest turret to get first turret gold.

GibberwattJan 2, 20173 votes

its also really nice winning bot lane, geting first tower, and thinking, "hey, this ain't so bad" and then noticing that your team is down a dozen kills. It happens to everyone, quit whining.

Asayake 5150glowJan 1, 20172 votes

I'm in bronze, (almost) anyone and anything can carry here.

MohawkBirdJan 1, 20172 votes

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BlåbæretJan 1, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Jesus people make up your mind. If ADCs are considered so weak and trash, even to the point where Ziggs is going bot, why shouldn't you be able to win a game if top and mid both won their lane? This thread is just pointless circlejerk.

If you really want to get technical too, any other towers are worth the same amount of gold as bot towers, so just trade towers and push other lanes and even out the gold.

Because the bot tower literally goes down the moment your bot lane has to back. Nvm, the fact that you constantly have to be babysitting the lane to watch out for dives. The bot tower is so freaking weak it's pathetic.

MohawkBirdJan 1, 20171 votes

[deleted]

badoogaJan 1, 20175 votes

Basically, the ADCs that are behind are the useless ones, and the ones that are ahead are the ones that need to be toned down (as always). This is decided solely by the weak bottom lane tower that we now have.

MohawkBirdJan 1, 20177 votes

[deleted]

badoogaJan 2, 20173 votes

Of course, that was always the case. But currently, this feast or famine is completely out of proportion, considering the constant 4 man dives and how easy it is to take turrets these days (even as a top laner, they'll bring my tower down to 50% in one wave if I leave for just a second). If they reverted the nerf on bot tower and just made it worth less gold, it would fix a few problems. I also like the idea of giving every turret a buff in health and attack speed (with the AS increasing as you go down the lane to the nexus, as it does on the Twisted Treeline).

Not to mention that there is way too much damage available in the game right now for everyone. A lot of this stems from the mastery system, but a decent amount of it is also from abuses regarding certain ADC items (I made a post with possible fixes a few days ago), as well as the tremendous amount of peel, healing and shielding that easily prevents assassins from killing squishies during their now increased burst window (which I will also make a post about, when I get around to it).

BlåbæretJan 2, 20172 votes

{quoted}

My point was that it doesn't matter how fast the bot tower goes down when both top and mid have won their lanes (according to you). Couple that with the fact that ADCs are considered jack shit right now and you should really have no problem winning as long as the lanes were winning like you claimed. Two winning lanes also means there is likely to be two turrets going down as opposed to only one in bot lane.

You might have full control of the game, but if your bot lane dies, the entire enemy team will port bot, take at least 2 towers and you're suddenly behind when you previously weren't. There is an extreme focus on the bot lane right now to the point where it's just ridiculous. Basically, even if you're ahead in the other lanes, chances are, if your bot lane sucks, you'll lose the game anyway. The enemy ADC can take your towers in a matter of seconds if unguarded. Also, I've never said ADCs are useless. In fact, I do believe Rito needs to rework the entire marksman class into something not making them a mandatory pick every single game. The sad truth is that you have a lot of different types of mages, fighters, tanks and so on, but the marksman class is incredibly homogeneous in the sense that all that matters is which marksman can pump out the most damage. That's why you have Vayne, Jhin and Caitlyn so rampant: they all basically two-shot any squishy in range.

While in the mid lane you might chose a champ for their wave clear, for their CC and so on. You might chose a damage based support or a protection based and so on. Marksmen are ONLY chosen because of their damage, nothing else. Especially tank heavy comps where you might have low damage champs top, jungle and support, your comp will be entirely reliant on your ADC to dish out the necessary damage. The sad fact is that there's nothing in-game that can match the consistent damage of marksmen. It's also extremely easy to right click and get spammed with shields and heals. The entire class as a whole is a giant failure.

Anyways, unless you have some sort of hyper carry AD champ or Ziggs on your team, you'll simply not take towers fast enough compared to the enemy team. That makes ADCs basically mandatory, and if your botlane ADC dies, and you're pushing elsewhere, you'll without a doubt lose way more than the enemy team will. It's not really just a botlane issue, it's also an ADC one.

Honestly, I just feel pure frustration when I'm on the top side of the map clearing out the jungle and I see a dive happening bot, because I know the tower will be down before I get there. If top doesn't have TP it's GG. If you're jungling you basically can't leave the bot side. If your mid or top dies, bot will be dived. Even in bronze people realized taking bot is a free win.

grugJan 2, 20172 votes

anecdotally it shouldnt be that big of a deal but for me when i play on OCE its insane.

it shouldnt be a problem but most of the time whoever takes bot tower first, the victim team's adc+ support go on a perma-tilt and continue feeding like madmen as well as positioning poorly.

its nothing really to do with the game but more psychologically these people are affected heavily at least for my ranked games on OCE.

TeCoolMageJan 2, 20171 votes

ugh bot laners in OCE are the worst.

The worst part is that they're worse than NA supports and not even autofilled.

grugJan 2, 20171 votes

Most of the time i rage at the botlaners in OCE to just simply ward.

A lot of them buy the sightstone and place no more than 10 wards per 30minute game which is just atrocious, these are players in gold to platinum L0L

any suggestion, advice or slight criticism results in the guaranteed response: 'fuck up, c**t'

Most boosted server in the world, will never win worlds or even the wildcard events to worlds.

TeCoolMageJan 2, 20171 votes

in exchange the junglers I have tend to get off good ganks and top laners actually like taking tanks instead of asking the support, but yeah the supports in OCE are just terrible

Tangy CitrusJan 2, 20172 votes

When you're up 20 kills, cs, and 5 towers at 20 minutes but your team extends the game to 50, throws, and you lose. #bronze

PlanetWarwickJan 1, 20171 votes

It's enjoyable (was) when I just solocarried from toplane kennen Adc fed? E flash protobelt r w q and if you have enough of a lead, you melt everyone

Pierce The VealJan 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

ff@20

Ftfy

KraDEsluP282Jan 1, 20171 votes

it's a good feeling going zed mid with soraka runes and masteries and lose mid but top and bot annihilanted their lanes.

KraDEsluP282Jan 1, 20171 votes

also a glorious feeling having a 0/13 udyr in my ranked game. gave some good laughs. worth the loss

GelmousJan 2, 20171 votes

i had a game where our mid laner won and other lanes where equal however their "losing" mid laner did what our mid laner was suppose to do and roamed rendering our mid useless because he refused to leave lane, he didn't even push turret, it's not fun when solo laners single handedly lose their lead and the game

EschetonJan 2, 20171 votes

Really? Because I tend to just laneswap and use my lead for some double kills and a tower or two

coreychichiJan 2, 20171 votes

bots tower likely went down to a 4 man which means you weren't winning both top and mid.

Weasel KenseiJan 2, 20171 votes

Im a support main, but Iv been going mid more to make sure that lane doesnt feed... then I realized, Im also going there to help bot lane by roaming to it from mid... so Im still supporting bot lane...