Supports Are Basically The Adc In All Of My Games, Dealing Stupid Amounts Of Damage

JL KS·Jan 27, 2020·13 votes·4,667 views

Regardless of the fact that support items have been nerfed in the recent patches, supports are still literally carrying games, swain support, brand support, lux support, morgana support, senna support, you name it, I even went up against a teemo support in my last match who dealt the most damage on the enemy team, and in the same game, the brand support on my team, which is my duo, dealt the most damage on my team. Supports are dealing more damage than entire teams. How does this make sense...?

33 Comments

C0RTESJan 27, 20203 votes

Well, every champ you listed is a pure mage, since they don’t have to farm they just poke you, and that’s already a reason for they’re dmg. Then the only support thing they have is the starting item, then they can just go full ap and deal dmg as any other midlaner mage

JamareeJan 27, 20202 votes

Swain and Brand and Teemo aren't support, have never been supports, and will never be supports, they are mages who can't cut it in their own lanes either from being outranged, damaged, poked, tanked, etc so they can fit into bot and use their above average burst damage to abuse a lane that has typically low damage early on.

Lux, Morgana and Senna aren't fully support either, they have supporting tools in their kits, but honestly function better as carries when you take their full kit into consideration.

They do so much damage because they tend not to need to build defenses because they are in a lane that they don't really need to worry about being traded back against, or the opponent building MR against them.

As for why their damages aren't going down, is because they once again aren't supports or at least fully. If you took away their damage, they would see no play outside of those roles especially when Teemo, Swain and Brand weren't even designed for that position.

Pika FoxJan 27, 20204 votes

{quoted}

Swain and Brand and Teemo aren't support, have never been supports, and will never be supports, they are mages who can't cut it in their own lanes either from being outranged, damaged, poked, tanked, etc so they can fit into bot and use their above average burst damage to abuse a lane that has typically low damage early on.

Lux, Morgana and Senna aren't fully support either, they have supporting tools in their kits, but honestly function better as carries when you take their full kit into consideration.

They do so much damage because they tend not to need to build defenses because they are in a lane that they don't really need to worry about being traded back against, or the opponent building MR against them.

As for why their damages aren't going down, is because they once again aren't supports or at least fully. If you took away their damage, they would see no play outside of those roles especially when Teemo, Swain and Brand weren't even designed for that position.

Theyre still supports. Supports can be picked to deal damage.

JamareeJan 27, 20203 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrqEVjgm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2020-01-27T07:10:08.818+0000)

Theyre still supports. Supports can be picked to deal damage.

They are not supports, they are picked in the support role because of how the meta shifted, but Brand, Teemo and Swain aren't supports, they are as much supports as Try and Illaoi are, just because they provide general utility that CAN be useful in that lane, doesn't make them a support.

Lux, Morgana, and Senna on the other hand are a mix.

Pika FoxJan 27, 20202 votes

{quoted}

They are not supports, they are picked in the support role because of how the meta shifted, but Brand, Teemo and Swain aren't supports, they are as much supports as Try and Illaoi are, just because they provide general utility that CAN be useful in that lane, doesn't make them a support.

Lux, Morgana, and Senna on the other hand are a mix.

A support is anyone who opts out of map gold gen to not split gold between two champions. Thats it.

JamareeJan 27, 20204 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrqEVjgm,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-27T07:33:51.382+0000)

A support is anyone who opts out of map gold gen to not split gold between two champions. Thats it.

By that definition, literally every champion in the game is a support.

Pika FoxJan 27, 20205 votes

{quoted}

By that definition, literally every champion in the game is a support.

Correct. Support is a role, not a champion archetype. The support archetype died when riot fixed supports not having any income and thus not being allowed to participate in the game proper.

JamareeJan 27, 20203 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrqEVjgm,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2020-01-27T08:01:35.426+0000)

Correct. Support is a role, not a champion archetype. The support archetype died when riot fixed supports not having any income and thus not being allowed to participate in the game proper.

??????

Anyone who thinks supports aren't the deciding factor of bot lane is iron.

Pika FoxJan 27, 20201 votes

{quoted}

??????

Anyone who thinks supports aren't the deciding factor of bot lane is iron.

Supports arent even required to go bot lane. Neither are ADCs for that matter.

xelakerJan 28, 20201 votes

Your reading comprehension is iron... he never said they weren't a factor, simply that League's old system meant supports weren't gonna make enough gold for much of anyone outside of specific champs to support very well.

SaezioJan 28, 20201 votes

Support is a role all right.

But it is also a champion semi-archetype imo(champs whose role is to facilitate others and are severely outclassed when being 1v1). It's just unfortunate riot didn't name that spot something else. Like Vision or something. We wouldn't have this confusion.

We would classify champs like this: Leona-> Support+Tank Janna-> Enchanter+Support Zac-> Tank Karma-> Enchanter

Pika FoxJan 28, 20202 votes

{quoted}

Support is a role all right.

But it is also a champion semi-archetype imo(champs whose role is to facilitate others and are severely outclassed when being 1v1). It's just unfortunate riot didn't name that spot something else. Like Vision or something. We wouldn't have this confusion.

We would classify champs like this: Leona-> Support+Tank Janna-> Enchanter+Support Zac-> Tank Karma-> Enchanter

That stopped being true the moment riot fixed support gold income. The games life started out imperfect, keeping the 5v5 setup. You originally had 2 top, 1 mid, 2 bot. Eventually, this moved to 1 top, 1 jungle, 1 mid, 2 bot, where the 2 bot were still sharing gold. However, items are so strong that it became more efficient not to split gold between 2 champions, especially because of the multiplicative returns on crit and AS stacking for taking out objectives. Given the 5th would get no income at all, their base kit was all they would have, so the only option you had were utility heavy.

Now that supports are actually allowed to play the game, given riots only options were to make league a 4v4 game or give a 5th gold income option, you no longer need kit-centric "supports". Anyone can fulfill the requirements of the role because the entire reason it existed in the first place was to not split gold income.

Teemo, katarina, shaco, lux, brand... anyone can be a support. And supports can and should be allowed to deal damage if they are picked for and build it.

SaezioJan 28, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrqEVjgm,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2020-01-28T01:57:06.382+0000)

That stopped being true the moment riot fixed support gold income.

What stopped being true.

I don't understand what you are trying to contradict in my reply. Even though I agree with almost everything you said.

BTW support is still way lower in gold and XP most of the time. Especially in late game scenarios. It's one of the reasons riot need to reinstate some more gold gen on the completed gold item imo.

I mean, I have NEVER in season 10 seen a support be the highest gold in their team in ranked. (maybe some pyke smurf pop off games)

JL KSJan 28, 20202 votes

Exactly

JL KSJan 28, 20202 votes

If they are picked as a support, They ARE supports, period.

JL KSJan 28, 20202 votes

Swain and teemo and brand and any champion that is selected as a support for that specific game and buys a support item to support. I considered a support in that game. If someone picks trundle in the support role for instance, you see people in the chat say "oh its a support trundle". You don't see them type "oh its a jungle trundle". Why? because in this specific game you are in, the trundle is playing support. That is all that matters. People play off roles champs all the time. The fact that people are consistently picking brand and swain in that role suggest that they are in fact supports regardless of the title RIOT may give them based on their design.

Baby GhoulJan 27, 20202 votes

Teemo support? Ew no, your bot lane did something bad in that case.

Swain and Brand support are incredibly obnoxious though.

They are somewhat kept in check in the engage support meta, but if you aren't playing Nautilus, Leona, or Blitzcrank, then you're going to have a miserable time bot lane even when you win against them.

JL KSJan 28, 20202 votes

Won lane hard against the teemo support, he went on to still deal the most damage on his team, the teemo wasn't on my team.

Malix FarwinJan 27, 20202 votes

ADCs arent just there to deal damage, they are mainly there for objectives so your argument is flawed at a baseline.

JL KSJan 28, 20202 votes

Not sure why the entire group of people reading my post thinks im making an argument. I'm stating that IN MY GAMES, FACTS, With Numbers BEHIND IT, Supports are out damaging entire teams.

Pika FoxJan 27, 20201 votes

Its almost as if if you pick a support whos only job is to bring utility and damage.... They deal damage....

Ashe mage ADJan 27, 20201 votes

Teeto dealing the most dmg ... that piece of shiz deals the most dmg even when he's the most useless fk on the team by far no contest just cuz ppl walk into his stupid shrooms, couldn't you find a better argument? Like seriously.

JL KSJan 28, 20202 votes

My Argument? I'm noting at the fact that supports are out damaging entire teams in the games I've been lately. Im not making an argument, im stating what I've been seeing in my games.

MitildesJan 28, 20201 votes

[deleted]

JL KSJan 28, 20203 votes

The jungler being inside of his jungle isnt odd, supports consistently dealing more damage then entire teams IS odd. Big difference.

MitildesJan 28, 20201 votes

[deleted]

JL KSJan 28, 20201 votes

So I have to be making an argument to make post is what you are saying, I can't notice something strange in the game and then decide to come onto League Boards and talk to the league community about it? I have to be trying to prove or disprove and argue a point in order to satisfy your need for negativity? That's a common theme I notice on these boards, people come to a board with the automatic need to be right about something or argue a point. There is no point to argue here, I simply noticed something and made a post about it. Simple... What people are going back and forth about is not my statement on how supports are out damaging entire teams, They are going back and forth about whether the supports I mentioned are in fact supports or not. They are arguing on a topic I didn't intend to initiate, The topics are similar but not my topic, and because people need to find something to argue about, the topic went from supports out damaging entire teams, which is just a statement and nothing to argue about, to Oh these aren't even supports, and yes they are supports, every champions is a support ect ect. Like I said... people feel the need to argue about some shit when there is really nothing to argue about.

MitildesJan 28, 20201 votes

I apologize. You are right and I was being a jerk focusing on your defensive comments about "not making an argument" and sidestepping the focus of your posts. Sorry.

Ashe mage ADJan 28, 20201 votes

Point taken, I should've said example rather. And yeah, except for Nami I'm not playing any actual/proper supports these days so you can have that. Just don't ever bring up teeto dealing most dmg, that's like so basic, he just does. Why do you think ppl call him Satan?

shh im hiddens kJan 27, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=JL KS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrqEVjgm,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-27T06:58:29.606+0000)

Regardless of the fact that support items have been nerfed in the recent patches, supports are still literally carrying games, swain support, brand support, lux support, morgana support, senna support, you name it, I even went up against a teemo support in my last match who dealt the most damage on the enemy team, and in the same game, the brand support on my team, which is my duo, dealt the most damage on my team. Supports are dealing more damage than entire teams. How does this make sense...?

All the prior ADC mains were tired of having dog shit supports but the new ADC mains can't play ADC to save their lives and should be playing support so we let them miss their cs and back at the wrong times take the kills with the semi-competent jungle and switch over to carry mode when they inevitably forget to pick up side lanes past the 20m mark.

You can complain about that when they first fix how top lane can go 0-10 and 30 minutes later be some 1v9 unstoppable god versus my Lux that doesn't scale at all just because they figured out where spirit visage and mercury treads is located in the shop.

If the guy who didn't lasthit the entire first 20 minutes of the game is beating your ass you should take a look at yourself. Every 15 cs is a kill.

Those mage supports even if they snowball (which we do) inevitably have 1 less item than you at max, snowball even less than they would have because they dont have the cs + the kills, just the kills, which arguably usually breaks about even with you, and then proceeds to outplay you guys in teamfights. Yeah, theyre better than you. AND theyre warding for you ,roaming, and probably supplying 90% of the vision. Like, learn to play.

I wish Riot would stop messing around with this one foot in one foot out nonsense and make the Mage supports support-prio instead of mid-prio b/c theyre mostly played as supports yet their ratios/scaling is based off of mid (lux nerfs lul). That's the r%%%%%ed thing about mage supports.

And the REASON that is, it's mostly because those mages are almost as good without the farm and don't snowball and 1v9clap nearly as well as the lulimskilled assassins do (broken, overpowered meme solo q stompers that they are).

Stop trying to imply that a 10-0 support lux and a 10-0 zed mid are even remotely similar. The 10-0 support lux is support in the first place so she doesn't prevent a 10-0 assassin from playing their role in mid that doesnt work as support?

I'm sure we'd play more enchanters if you wouldnt forget we exist and never peel for us, ignore our vision, run out of our item proximity, never follow up on our plays, etc.

JL KSJan 28, 20201 votes

I read your entire comment, and im not sure wtf you arguement is... sorry guy, sounds like you are a support main tho from what I do grasp and you are basically saying adc you are in game with can't cs ect. Which had nothing to do with what I said, Im simply noting at the fact that in my recent games, I've been noticing supports out damaging entire teams.

xelakerJan 28, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=JL KS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrqEVjgm,comment-id=,timestamp=2020-01-27T06:58:29.606+0000)

Regardless of the fact that support items have been nerfed in the recent patches, supports are still literally carrying games, swain support, brand support, lux support, morgana support, senna support, you name it, I even went up against a teemo support in my last match who dealt the most damage on the enemy team, and in the same game, the brand support on my team, which is my duo, dealt the most damage on my team. Supports are dealing more damage than entire teams. How does this make sense...?

As a dude with like 50k in teemo support mastery lemme tell you that shrooms can outdamage most teams in most games, win or lose.