Even if I react the instant he begins to jump, the ADC is dead during my abilities' travel time, and there's no reasonable way for the ADC to itemize against him.
Zero counterplay bullshit like this has absolutely no place in the game.
The thigh guy78 votesBut but. If assassins have counterplay how will they be able to assassin :c
In all honesty fuck this entire class
Yenn22 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrpqfOhE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-31T06:25:21.087+0000)
But but. If assassins have counterplay how will they be able to assassin :c
In all honesty fuck this entire class
The problem here is that other assassins need to make some decision on how to approach the target unseen, when to go in, and then they have some sort of combo that makes them take more than 0.2 seconds to kill.
Rengar literally just runs directly into them and instantly kills them from fairly long range, without giving enough time to respond, and without having to worry about reaching the target unseen. He's basically an idiot-proof assassin.
kargish9 votesYou're plat 1 you should be able to figure this out mate.
Wanna know what seperates 
from 
? It's that Rengar and Eve actually grants you a warning that you're about to be eaten. The others just make it happen. Why is Rengar a special case when Kayn comes out of a wall with 700 ms, Kha'zix runs at you with true stealth and resetable leaps or LeBlanc points and clicks you down from range.
But not only do the latter just one shot you, they can also escape the fight straight after (besides Kayn and Shaco).
What is the counter to Zed's 2-hit one shot R, Fizz' shark, Kayn's AoE burst, Kha'zix' uptime and Kassadin's unkiteability. Is the answer 
? Because that applies to Rengar's burst as well. What about 
then? Also applies to Rengar as you'll avoid E, W and ferocity burst by creating distance.
Aimléss9 votesI can't breath, I almost drowned in the bias. I can dodge most assassins abilities including Zed and Fizz and they give me some time to respond. It's hilarious that the ones with actual STEALTH somehow are the ones with the undodgeable abilities and the shortest amount of time to respond.
What are we doing Riot???
kargish3 votesYou didn't respond to my question though.
Fizz ult can indeed be dodged, but the point is does Fizz, Zed, LB and the others give you more or less time to react? Does Fizz screaming 'SHARK' give you more counterplay options than being given a glowing warning above your head way before the leap? Does it matter that you dodge Zed's Q's if you die to auto+E+elec+dusk+ignite anyway, which is also instant damage?
And what about these champs you mentioned nothing about.
What makes Rengar a special case? What about his non-existant escape that all the above has minus Shaco and Kayn?
Tim From Work7 votesyou seem to have several misconceptions about fizz, first and foremost if you get hit by max range shark(which is the only way he can reasonably kill most champions without having to use his e for damage) you deserve to die, the projectile speed is about as slow as morg q and can be tanked pretty easily making fizz’s Job of taking out a priority target much harder than most Assassins, and unless he’s hilariously fed he’s gonna have to use his e for damage meaning he also has no escape.
kingDeDeDarius4 votesThe problem here is that other assassins need to make some decision on how to approach the target unseen, when to go in, and then they have some sort of combo that makes them take more than 0.2 seconds to kill.
Rengar literally just runs directly into them and instantly kills them from fairly long range, without giving enough time to respond, and without having to worry about reaching the target unseen. He's basically an idiot-proof assassin.
They should reduce his ultimate duration by like 5-10 secs (right now it's ridiculously long) and maybeake his combo take half a sec longer or something lol. Like my boy darius is still living in the counterplay ice age in comparison to rengar. Darius Q alone takes .75 to hit off, and you can always see him coming plus it does less damage at least pre 5 stack. Maybe rengo just needs a little tiny delay when ulting
Nevrankroaton5 votesLet me rephrase it.
Fuck rengar. Fuck his revert.
Ephixus69 votesWell Rengar main's kept telling me I should get better reaction so I won't get one shotted, yeah right reaction...
Probably my keyboard/mouse clicks has higher delay than their one shots.
Fermi Paradox73 votesfastest possible human reaction time: 120 milliseconds
time I had to react until I died: 100 milliseconds
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/151/543/119.jpg
ShirukuSama17 votesThis is not about reaction time but positioning. ADC aka glass cannon play is all about positioning. if the ADC doesn't respect the jungler/assassin or overextends without the aid of its support, doesn't ward and has no map awareness, it deserves the punishment.
Sorry to say, but ppl who whining about Rengar or other jungler assassins mostly don't play properly.
Yenn19 votesThis is not about reaction time but positioning. ADC aka glass cannon play is all about positioning. if the ADC doesn't respect the jungler/assassin or overextends without the aid of its support, doesn't ward and has no map awareness, it deserves the punishment.
Sorry to say, but ppl who whining about Rengar or other jungler assassins mostly don't play properly.
He can literally just ult the ADC in the middle of a team fight, anywhere on the map. His ult lasts 20 seconds. You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and even suggesting that Diamond+ ADC mains 'don't play properly' is ridiculous.
DerPunkt7 votesTo add to that... what most people mean by positioning is... Stay behind. And that does not work. When you stay behind he just walks around and jumps you because from the back perspective you were out of position.
And also not joining a tf is no option most of the time. It first is often weaker and 2nd... not fighting is not the point of this game. But I literally had games with 3 assissins in the other side and I just hid in a brush when my team wanted to fight or stayed in base and all 3 would just never use abilitys on the hunt for me. And just die eventually when it was to late and i never showed up. So winning fights like that is just dumb.
ExxonV25 votesADC mains need to learn how to position in the fountain better, that way at least there's a return kill when they're dove.
NaturesMayhem4 votesWell here is a little something from another Rengar main, someone who played him for almost 2 season straight and has 400k mastery points on the character. He's busted and Riot designed themselves into a corner with him. There is almost no counter play depending on your team comp, and there's almost no way for Rengar to be useful depending on certain team comps. He's a champion with a leap and abilities that do damage. Nothing else matters. He either one shots or doesn't and then dies. And thus he is constantly thrust around from being too strong to too weak depending on Riot's mood. He's an example of a champion that's the opposite of an overloaded champion. As all he really does is leap and QWE spam which is essentially just damage and then a slow.
If you die to a Rengar, don't feel bad and don't feel mad. Easiest way to cheese the champion are clusters are champions with some form of CC. And if that's not possible, at least 1 other player with you who has CC and will survive the burst is all that's needed. Just have said champion move till he's marked by Rengar then keep him between you two before he gives up or jumps and gets killed, a lot of people don't feel like wasting ult so they will go with 2. Only other concern is bush kitty when you're not expecting it, warding and playing safe prevents that to a reasonable degree.
4EtQTKtcfT2 votesI checked your op.gg, you have 27 Rengar games in total in 4 seasons, where are the 400 other games you have on him?
Hayaishi226 votesBut adcs cry about everything just for the sake of complaining right?
Kyoia39 votesyou would too if you got to sit at a gray screen every teamfight just because an assassin exists and you can do fuck all about it.
Fermi Paradox9 votesthere are ADCs I'd unironically buy Zhonya's on just to not get oneshot in teamfights
5StackUltOneShot3 votesyou would too if you got to sit at a gray screen every teamfight just because an assassin exists and you can do fuck all about it.
And if an assassin doesnt exist the enemy sits on a grey screen every teamfight unless all 5 jump on the adc that DOESNT HAVE 
TwitchInMyPants2 votesAnd if an assassin doesnt exist the enemy sits on a grey screen every teamfight unless all 5 jump on the adc that DOESNT HAVE
Nice you picked 5 out of 40+ support options and 140+ champions that are good at protecting ADCs. And frankly Lulu and Leona suck ass at saving an adc against picks like Zed and Rengar anyway as long as they have a second person alongside them, they can delay the burst but you still are going to get it through to the adc.
Flashes3 votesNice you picked 5 out of 40+ support options and 140+ champions that are good at protecting ADCs. And frankly Lulu and Leona suck ass at saving an adc against picks like Zed and Rengar anyway as long as they have a second person alongside them, they can delay the burst but you still are going to get it through to the adc.
you're joking right? Lulu was known as the Zed counter because of the Point and Click polymorph after Zed uses R, and Leona has a targeted stun on her autoattack followed by a root and another stun on her ultimate.
TwitchInMyPants2 votesyou're joking right? Lulu was known as the Zed counter because of the Point and Click polymorph after Zed uses R, and Leona has a targeted stun on her autoattack followed by a root and another stun on her ultimate.
That's also before shit like Duskblade existed and his R was an auto escape and Lulu was nerfed multiple times
She's rarely seen in competitive play. S7 was an exception to the rule due to ardent cancer.
It's also a clownshoes mentality that even if she was the one exception to what I pointed out, she's far weaker vs burst than Janna, Rakan, or Zilean. That's still 3 champions who are superb against burst, Lulu who's pretty good against burst, and Leona who can counter initiate. That's if I tackle your agument assuming you're right and they're amazing. Thats a vast minority of supports that can deal with him.
Mordepool22 votes.2 seconds. Gj riot you doubled Rengars time to kill. Damage problem solved.
/S
Tormentula17 votesI wouldn't even care about his whole one shot bullshit, if he didn't have one of the most overloaded kits for an assassin to back it up.
Mainly, why does his W have a fucking cleanse and grey health mechanic.. seriously why the fuck is there a cleanse mechanic and an instant grey health heal on an assassin???? At least if I fucking catch kha'zix or he jumps in on me in a teamfight, he's gunna die and not ignore everything thrown at him. Even talon you can see coming a mile away and then CC him the moment he jumps.. not rengar tho he gets a cleanse! Hell you can't even 100-0 him back since he can go bruiser due to his passive giving him more damage then he needs with a lead and heal half his health back while reverse one shotting you.
Thefrostyviking11 votesBecause apparently he is not an assassin, rather he is a diver.
Oh but he still has the ability to act like an assassin like Diana does but more damage than her because he is single target, oh and since he is a diver he needs proper DPS over a fight, oh and since he is a jungler he needs CC, oh and since his gapclosing is tied to his ult it needs to be real strong.
And since he is a diver he needs some sorta defensive tool, so his W exists.
So the end result is a diver with good DPS, sky high single target damage, both hard and light CC, and a defensive tool in his W along with a powerful gapcloser, whose entire existance only really hinges on the question " can i delete the enemy carry of choice or not whenever i need to?".
If yes, he is OP.
If no, he is useless garbage.
I seriously dislike feast or famine champs.
TwitchInMyPants2 votesBecause apparently he is not an assassin, rather he is a diver.
Oh but he still has the ability to act like an assassin like Diana does but more damage than her because he is single target, oh and since he is a diver he needs proper DPS over a fight, oh and since he is a jungler he needs CC, oh and since his gapclosing is tied to his ult it needs to be real strong.
And since he is a diver he needs some sorta defensive tool, so his W exists.
So the end result is a diver with good DPS, sky high single target damage, both hard and light CC, and a defensive tool in his W along with a powerful gapcloser, whose entire existance only really hinges on the question " can i delete the enemy carry of choice or not whenever i need to?".
If yes, he is OP.
If no, he is useless garbage.
I seriously dislike feast or famine champs.
Honestly Riot needs to pick one class with Rengar. That or cut his ultimate back enough to where he can dive but isn't guaranteed assassin burst but has to build it.
Seriously. Kayn is two classes and the base damage on his R is practically non-existent and it has a solid delay on it. Kayn has floated at almost 50% winrate since release. MAYBE LEARN FROM SOMETHING YOU DID RIGHT RITO? :V
LTK KoRo11 votesYeah tbh his jump could use some speed nerfs. When he comes from stealth you don't have any relevant time to react while he's flying at you. It can be seen greatly when you're playing something like Gragas, i can usually cancel stuff like Lee Q2, Fiora Q, Zac E, LeBlanc W or Fizz Q, but Rengar jump from stealth is just too fast for me.
Ephixus4 votesExactly what I looked for.
TempestAzure11 votesDude, it's not even just ADCs it's mages, assassins, supports, basically everyone who isn't a 3 item armor and health stacking tank.
CithriaC7 votes.2 seconds? I guess this is proof of assassins being nerfed, he used to kill in .1 .
Bisaknosp6 voteshate how forgiving most assassins are rn and how they got enough damage to overkill a target
the update sucked ass
in case of rengar the only thing i would change about him is the leap range its too far imo or at least make it so that you cant leap the moment you exit a brush (because you actually can do that, which is dumb af)
Blakers16 votesI've tried to explain this a thousand times over the years and you're always met with the salt of the Rengar mains in full force. Even though his rework was below average in terms of quality/usability it was still far better than the original and reverted (current) Rengar. Any assassin that has next to no windup/animation time on their main damage ability should not exist in the game in any viable state. Rengar's Q is a toxic ability in every single way with the way it works with his kit. At one point I wanted to think small changes would fix him, but at this point I'd say he needs a full blown rework (not VGU levels).
No flash no life5 votesI guess you'll either have to play teemo support to draw the aggro and sacrifice your life for adc, or adc will have to play 
;_;
Cotten Eyed Joe5 votesI'm reading the comments and I'm going to ask. Do ADCs build tanky items? If they could withstand the burst of an assassin, would that be fair to assassins? Assassins are supposed to burst high priority targets. You can't blame a high burst champ such as Rengar to one shot an adc when the adc has built full damage. However, I'm going to let you all in on a little secret. There's an item that costs 1100g and does a lot from withstanding the burst of ADCs.
The item is 
Frog goes moo4 votesChecking your match history: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2966124999/374094?tab=overview
I see that the rengar was 9/2/2. and ended the game 3 levels ahead of the highest leveled person on your team. The adc's only defensive item was a doran's shield (no armor) and was underleveled with only one kill at the end of the game (the game ended 4 to17 in favor of the enemy team). Needless to say, he got fed. When assassins get fed that's what they do. This is more of a snowballing and scaling problem in the game than it is a "no counterplay." Rengar has counterplay, it's just that if you feed him, or any assassin in general, they tend to make your game not fun.
Hawthorn Tree4 votesNo reasonable way to itemize....
Mael bro4 votesNew year, same old bitching. Rengar has been out for almost like 7 years in this game. So I guess uh...L2P?
Pandemic Punch3 votesRemember when enchanters were good vs assassins? Good times.
Thaakillah3 votesIm a janna main, often a khazix or rengar jumps me and im dead aswell.. IM JANNA. like THE peel support. and i cant do SH!TE. im instantly dead. cant press R, cant throw a tornado or exhaust.. just dead same for my adc's its insanely anti-fun
Tuition Fee3 votesI've had him burst my full health adc to death once through lulu's shield, ult and heal. Didn't even have time for polymorph to finish its animation. ADC died first, and then he got transformed.
King Lego2 votesHonestly, Rengar needs a rework.
Idc what Rengar mains say on this, but that champ is just too toxic if there is little to no counterplay. I don't think even tanks can handle him because if i'm not mistaken he gains armor pen from his ulti or passive?
4EtQTKtcfT3 voteslittle to no counterplay if you're bad
FilDaFunk1 votesDoesn't he only get to jump to the closest target? Why was your adc the closest target?
ninjaroxas12 votesHe gets vision of the closest target. He can jump to what ever he wants. Doesn't even have to be a champion
Rathar Dashing1 votesGA is a pretty valid option for an ADC. Zilean R also has no travel time and would therefore save your ADC. Also Janna has two instant abilities that can help negate instant burst, E (which i admit isn't that big of a shield), and R which can prevent your ADC from even being reached in the first place, and thus not having their armor reduced or being damaged, as well as turning off Rengar stealth.
Sillae4 votes[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrpqfOhE,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-01-31T13:46:28.145+0000)
GA is a pretty valid option for an ADC. Zilean R also has no travel time and would therefore save your ADC. Also Janna has two instant abilities that can help negate instant burst, E (which i admit isn't that big of a shield), and R which can prevent your ADC from even being reached in the first place, and thus not having their armor reduced or being damaged, as well as turning off Rengar stealth.
Reng jumps from stealth and you need to both click the R button and the ADC in .1-.2 seconds it takes to kill.
Moonscourge1 votesCounterplay is hugging your ADC or Mid and catching him BEFORE he jumps.
Yenn7 votes[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qrpqfOhE,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2019-01-31T17:11:03.053+0000)
Counterplay is hugging your ADC or Mid and catching him BEFORE he jumps.
This isn't possible. You can't see him until he starts the jump, and once the jump starts, the damage becomes unavoidable. You can watch an Ezreal Arcane Shift the moment he jumps and still die, even though Rengar technically didn't make contact.
It's even less possible when you're retreating from the enemy's front lines popping Righteous Glory/Shurelia and trying to dive for the carries as well.
