Karma in every game is very F U N

Yenn·Oct 2, 2016·48 votes·3,600 views

I didn't want to be able to play the game as a melee that relies on movement speed, anyway.

71 Comments

Rustling BushOct 2, 201631 votes

thats a funny way to spell janna

rtbf225618241Oct 3, 20163 votes

At least Janna doesn't kill you while doing it.

TeCoolMageOct 3, 201612 votes

I know right!? Karma is so stupid I hope riot nerfs her! Ah remember the good old days when karma wasn't strong? It's like it was just yesterday...

I know right!? Karma is so weak I hope riot buffs her! Ah remember the good old days when Karma wasn't reworked? It's like it was just yesterday...

I know right!? Karma is so broken I hope riot reworks her! Ah remember the good old days when broken champions weren't released? It's like it was just yesterday...

OMFG NOOB YOURE MEANT TO TAKE ASHE MID YOU STUPID **** AND WHY DIDNT YOU BAN KASSADIN?!?!?!

Rew711Oct 3, 20161 votes

Plays Karma mid lane... wins.

TNHA BaritoneOct 3, 201611 votes

Look! A Karma OP thread...you're a couple seasons late. She's been like this for a while now.

Don't worry. I'll break it down for you nice and slow since you cannot think for yourself. Would you would have ever said anything if you never saw her in LCS? Nope. She has a 48% win-rate and a 9% play-rate. So I doubt anyone would be complaining. Just because you see a champion in LCS, doesn't always mean they are broken. I can't blame you for thinking like that, but those pros are actually analytical and strategic. So if they randomly pick Galio, don't bitch about it--there is a reason for it.

So why exactly is Karma seen a lot in LCS?

NERFED NERFED NERFED NERFED (her "buffs" still haven't returned her to her old spot) NERFED BUFFED...then NERFED BUFFED STRONG STRONG, BURSTY STRONG, HYPERCARRY STRONG BUFFED

#Now let's interpret that.

All of the nerfed supports either compete with Karma or counter her. All of the buffed supports have hard engage that can be countered by high mobility or high movement speed. All of the ADCs either add to her early game poke (Lucian) or can utilize consistent bursts movement speed very well (the rest).

billxxOct 3, 20162 votes

Couldn't give a shit about lcs, but karma is pretty unfair and unfun to play against especially as a melee

TNHA BaritoneOct 4, 20162 votes

....Okay? That's the same for almost every other mage.

billxxOct 6, 20161 votes

A lot of other mages don't have a shield and guaranteed cc

Fenikkusu1Oct 3, 20166 votes

The sad part is that Rito won't nerf Karma anytime soon, because they've tried so hard to try to get her to see play with all the buffs they gave her after they took her identity away during her rework, which pissed off a lot of old Karma mains. Now that she is finally seeing a good amount of play, Rito doesn't want to do anything about her :/. I played Karma mid when I was leveling up, she was one of the first champs I bought, and...she kinda gets boring after a bit, she's just like most other mages. Burst ability, cc ability, utility ability. Her ult is something I like though.

IGotScuttleCrabsOct 3, 20162 votes

WAT I won't even mention the salt surrounding the destruction of old Karma

But even new Karma has been beaten and abused. They took the shield bomb, even the minion shield (to give you range on a Mantra Shield), damage left and right and packed it all into a single minion blockable RQ

Urf Mode Is LifeOct 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The sad part is that Rito won't nerf Karma anytime soon, because they've tried so hard to try to get her to see play with all the buffs they gave her after they took her identity away during her rework, which pissed off a lot of old Karma mains. Now that she is finally seeing a good amount of play, Rito doesn't want to do anything about her :/. I played Karma mid when I was leveling up, she was one of the first champs I bought, and...she kinda gets boring after a bit, she's just like most other mages. Burst ability, cc ability, utility ability. Her ult is something I like though.

bring back my fan heals :-( not a karma main but been around league for way too many years... like 9 to be exact

Spaceman5pffOct 3, 20161 votes

Well, assuming you mean that you played beta, that means the longest you could've been around is just under 7 years.

So you must be family of some OG Rioters, or be a former Rioter?

CatastropOct 3, 20162 votes

No, the fan heal was garbage. I'd like my fans back though.

Akali is SO HOTOct 3, 20166 votes

I think that's more or less every support. Braum Auto attacks you once and let's his team perma stun you Janna lol Karma Should just be renamed to "anti melee champion" Lulu Biggest cockblock in the game with her ult Soraka WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Hello I am BirdOct 3, 20163 votes

That post about Janna made me giggle like a maniac for no reason lmao

rtbf225618241Oct 3, 20161 votes

I find it funny how you make Janna look gimmicky when she's the most universal Support in the game but noone ever makes pure Utility items on her. I like to joke about the fact that the only thing she's missing is a grab.

OdinakosOct 4, 20162 votes

Janna is not universal, quite the opposite, she is almost one dimentional. Think her as reverse Leona. She can almost only peel.

Janna is weak now because she is heavily punished in lane. She requires a strong laner like Lucian or MF, where they trade in bursts and Janna disengage the enemy. She has no damage and her engage is pretty weak. But after the laning phase, a decent Janna can make melee cry. She hold the title of "Queen of peels" for some reason. Thats why melee hate Janna so much. She is my favorite support but i hate i cant play her now because i have to contest the lane.

rtbf225618241Oct 4, 20161 votes

This applies to 99.9% of players because noone knows how to play her at a decent level as far as i've seen. She's not supposted to have damage, her power lies in the items she synergyzes with(which i've seen noone build aside from 50% of the true build). Her engage is one of the most powerful in the game if you do it correctly and if the Adc is impulsive as hell that can't keep his/her distance, then there's nothing she can do. I'm playing in Diamond not Bronze III.

OdinakosOct 4, 20161 votes

First of all explain yourself. What is the correct item build you are speaking about? What is one of the most powerful engages that can be done frequent? i dont want to make assumptions to counter your points because you didnt provide any details.

As far as i know, Janna is best used to disengage small trades that just break her shield in order to win advandage that way. She cant engage as good and frequent as the top engagers. She cant engage at all at teamfights. What are you describing is Thresh lvl of versatility, that Janna has little of that. Because if she was as you described, she would def be a top pick at worlds. Engage along with the most powerful disengages in the world?

rtbf225618241Oct 4, 20161 votes

I'm not going to go in-depth simply because i am way too tired at the moment and don't have to put as much effort in making a point so i'll just skip the first one. Check my Match History if you want. It's the same build every time.

The most powerful engage. There are 2. One is flash close to the enemy and knock them up with a fast Q and ult them into your team similar to what Alistar does. The other is if you're closer and manage to flash in front of the enemy and then R + Q to keep them in your team. Exhaust can secure it. The reason this is the most powerful engage among Supports is because you can do it with more than 1 person and it also can displace/push back anyone around your ultimate, forcing them farther away.

She is best used as a disengage support, yes. But she can pretty easily be used as an aggressive one by turning your carries extremely durable by being there with your perfect timings and reactions. Ofc, this is something even i have yet to fully master. (See my build, everything is an activatable excluding M.Boots.)

Her engage is strong because of her W and Q. Most people never know how to hit Q and don't buy Mobility boots on her for some reason even though it helps to outmanouver the enemy and put wards with rapid movement.

Btw, you can also displace anyone with your ultimate if you use it at max range while they are running away, acting as a short form of stun. The trick is knowing the exact range of your ultimate.

OdinakosOct 4, 20161 votes

First of all you dont bother explaining simple things like a rule of thump build. Then you say you are tired to anwer a simple question, go to op.gg. You could type "Usually coin SS mobis, talisman locket..." on the first post and be done.

Moreso, I build the same with lucidity for more cdr (exept that wild randuin because shaco was somehow focusing me). Yes spellthiefs Jannas still exists but now that she is rare, the vast majority i encounter build more or less the same as you. It is not something special tbh.

As for the engages. The first one is quite weaker than Allistar's. It takes more spells, time(allistar's Q-flash is instant, no reaction time for counter-flash) and its more risky (both in the way in and out) as Janna is way more squishy than Allistar that can just press R. No matter the speed, you can get hit by a cc and turn the fight 4v5 in a second. Allistar can do it way easier with Q-flash combo. Furthermore during laning, Janna lacks the damage to burst in order to secure the kill. Eg sona, can flash R AA Q AA for decent burst. This can be dangerous if the enemies have the burst to counterengage. And if we go deeper, Janna's engage does not seem on **average **stronger than a flash R from Sona or Flash RQ from Nami or.. or... Seriously if we study methodically all the possible ways a support can reliably engage either 5v5, picks or laning, Janna is just average.

The second... Com on. Someone is in sub flash range and the most powerful you can think is Janna? Yes it is impressive and unexpected but the list is so huge.

Yes Janna can reliably engage depending on situation but many supports can do it. She is not in the same league as the most powerful ones. Far from it. So you cant say she has a good engage because of that. It is like saying that Leona has the best peel in the game. Yes she has quite good cc that helps peeling (and i have turned 2v4 with good peeling), but she is nowhere near the defensive supports like Janna Braum or Nami.

rtbf225618241Oct 4, 20161 votes

I'm not going to go in-depth with the build cuz i'd have to explain why and how and everything and counter the typical counter-argument of "But AP gives better shields" and how it's not worth as opposed to what the items provide compared to stats that are basically useless and remind me of shitty rune pages with 12 different stats that have no meaning but that's beyond the point.

In this order: Sighstone > Mobility Boots > Talisman of Ascension > Locket of The Iron Solari > Mikael's Crucible > Righteous Glory > Ruby Sighstone / Elixir of Iron

I was tired because as you can see IT'S NOT 16 PM IN EU AT THE TIME OF WRITING THIS.

The vast majority upgrades the Coin into the Eye of The Oasis or forgets about it as far as i've seen and builds the rest of the dumb shit like Frozen Heart or Ardent Censer which is outclassed by Locket by a longshot.

With that said, Locket is almost mandatory anyway on any Support as of recently.

Q flash instant? You do realize you can only do it once in 5 minutes? It's not even instantaneous as the Q has a cast animation and can be cancelled by..well anyone with a knockback, Janna is obviously the easiest choice here. Seeing Alistar approach alone could make me charge the tornado and "accidentally" hit when it was intended for his W. I mean Janna has 600 movement speed upon which most people can't react on if she gets the edge on them and only needs to be in front of someone to push back and create a small stun delay as a killzone for allies. It doesn't require flash if you get close to them, use knockup and ult.

But ofcourse, i haven't seen any other good Janna players because they build shit and they position improperly plus fail Qs and never use ult in optimal ways.

You're saying someone will expect you to do that? Not in my 2.5k games on Janna has anyone ever instakilled me when i "Insec" ult someone. Not once, it's always been unexpected and if you looked at my items you'd know i have more than enough to get out plus the movement speed.

Laning? Her Laning relies on outfighting the enemy. You don't need fucking damage when the enemy Support is basically a starving mid laner and you're keeping your Adc alive better than a Soraka could.

Sona's ult has a 0.2 sec delay in which any..decent player can flash out of, it has short range.

Nami's ult has a horrendeous delay, most people can avoid it.

In my opinion, she's the best Support in the game merely because she has no weaknesses other than the lack of damage/grabbing with squishiness but with the build i use, i get 3.3k health with high resistances anyway when it's done. Braum and Nami are ridiculously useless, they blow their little burst and turn useless. Janna relies on cycling abilities or turning the enemy completely useless with the W + E AD bonus and allowing the ally to rip them to shreds.

This is why i hate mage Supports, have damage but can only do it once. If you outplay that, you've won. Janna's E and W is point and click and her ult is easy to land. What else do you need?

OdinakosOct 5, 20161 votes

Wait, is it real that people argue that AP build is better on Janna than the normal build? I thought we got over it months ago. I could see an Ardent if you cant bother with another active(heh thats me, 3 are enouph) but thats as far as it goes. Was funny to see Jannas with more gold of spellthiefs gold over time than the gold from damage. Spellthiefs was the goto in competitive for the damage in trades and bullying 2v1s. Janna screams talisman in solo, i havent seen spellthiefs for months.

Allistar's best engage is Q flash, not Flash Q. You flash during the animation. Like Mata did in the game with TSM, that did not leave reaction time to one of the best team of the world. Ofc it requires good training to do that. As for Sona 0.2 sec is perception time, add in decision time and the reaction time is way over it. Sometimes people read that but there is a very high chance Sona is gonna pull that off. I could keep throwing examples there, eg Blitz Flash E , W out, Q R. OTPs blitz can def pull that.

There is a reason Janna is nowhere to see in competitive. She can be bullied in lane from other range supports, her offensive utility is low compared to other range supports. Teams like to sacrifice the best defence with some offence. Nami and Braum (along with others) have a lot of utility also not only damage. Nami and Karma that compete with Janna as utility range supports, have seen pick and bans in the worlds. Karma especially would be the next candidate for Victorius skin after Nida, if only for the fact that there have been 2 Victorius supports already.

Mage supports are another threat for the enemy team. A Zyra with Rylais Guise and Sorc will do significant damage while providing decent utility. Mage supports bring different strengths than the utility supports.

Keep in mind that Janna is my alltime favorite one and i know that she is far from weak, more of middle of the pack. I dont argue that she has no offencive capability, Just that it mediocre compared to other supports. Especially compared to her competitors of range utility supports. Like Leo can peel but that is meh compared to others, her strength lies in her powerful and constant all ins and lockdowns.

rtbf225618241Oct 5, 20161 votes

Yes well you'd be surprised if you saw the Jannas i've played with. Pretty much everyone makes AP items for damage or Ardent Censer for better shields.

I think you missed my point. Even if Ali's Q hits, he will not W if it gets countered and can be countered easily because Q has a cast animation and a recover animation so you can't move in front of them and W back that was. Janna's W is the only ability that slows her down everything else has no cast time.

So just because they have damage you think they're better? All of those Support can be easily outplayed or countered with something from Janna's kit and rendered helpless.

The only Support that DOES counter Janna is Brand because of his sheer hitboxes, ranges and damage output Janna can't keep up with.

Well i can't argue against that on the behalf of everyone except me because i can do that but i suppose that's still something only i can do.

iTaLenTZOct 3, 20165 votes

I have been saying for a year how obnoxious and OP Karma is and every time I got downvoted. Meanwhile she was picked in high Diamond as support/midlaner/toplaner. Tankkarma top is by far the most obnoxious thing I have ever seen. Even worse than Ekko

DroogzyOct 3, 20161 votes

Guilty of Tankkarma/KiteKarma :D Don't expose it!

FQC - Rylais - IBG - Merc Boots and situational items, so hilariously fun and effective.

Funny thing is, I got flamed once by my teammates for a "troll build" yet we still won anyways.

RomtheguyOct 3, 20161 votes

at least TanKarma needs items to even be able to tank mfw the enemy walks away to break my tether and heal

But yeah, Karma has been powerful for so long and is now finally being used because of nerfs and buffs to other champions.

specter424Oct 2, 20164 votes

I played Garen against a Karma top one time. It was definitely one of my most positive and enjoyable League experiences and I didn't end up afking at 5 minutes due to the lack of options.

MiraweaveOct 3, 20164 votes

Says the guy who plays cancer kennen lel

BisaknospOct 3, 20164 votes

now that she is played at lcs/worlds/whatfckingeveridgaf i dont watch this crap everyone cries about her when not long ago most ppl cried about her being 'weak' and 'outclassed' pathetic the boards are a joke xDD

FalconPawwwwnchOct 3, 20163 votes

Lmao Kennen is worse for melee tho Yenn

But true Karma is aids

AbyssphereOct 3, 20163 votes

Karma's super anti-melee but she's also pro-melee so in terms of supports she's honestly pretty good. People like Janna are horrible to enemy melee champions but don't do anything to help the melees on their team, but at least Karma is actually really good at enabling melee champions too. Yeah, it sucks to play against her as Darius, but it's great to play with her as Dariusso that's something.

RivuoOct 2, 20162 votes

Karma..? Is extremely balanced. Shes like Elise, not busted/omg nerf plz rito but shes really strong.

Id much rather fight karma, than braum or soraka

YennOct 2, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Karma..? Is extremely balanced. Shes like Elise, not busted/omg nerf plz rito but shes really strong.

Id much rather fight karma, than braum or soraka

You're clearly not playing a melee that relies on movement speed

Rustling BushOct 3, 20166 votes

{quoted}

You're clearly not playing a melee that relies on movement speed

bohoo i can't dunk everyone in my line of sight with Darius and Illaoi , just except the fact that some champions have a distinct advantage over others.

BananaJannanaOct 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're clearly not playing a melee that relies on movement speed

So because she counters 3-4 champions, she needs a nerf?

TormentulaOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Karma..? Is extremely balanced. Shes like Elise, not busted/omg nerf plz rito but shes really strong.

Id much rather fight karma, than braum or soraka

I'm an elise one trick, and I'd never compare elise to karma. Elise is a feast or famine champion in the early game that gives early jungle pressure until she falls off.

Karma is a support burst champion with kiting singed wished he had in bot lane where every adc is squishy and 2 shot them mid-late game. In mid lane she's just another poke mage but with burst, shields, substain, and lock down.

The only thing comparable to karma is leblanc but safer range and can actually stay in long team fights. Leblanc is fun right?

RivuoOct 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Spider NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qpG7yNYc,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2016-10-04T01:16:28.226+0000)

I'm an elise one trick, and I'd never compare elise to karma. Elise is a feast or famine champion in the early game that gives early jungle pressure until she falls off.

Karma is a support burst champion with kiting singed wished he had in bot lane where every adc is squishy and 2 shot them mid-late game. In mid lane she's just another poke mage but with burst, shields, substain, and lock down.

The only thing comparable to karma is leblanc but safer range and can actually stay in long team fights. Leblanc is fun right?

I dont really give a shit if you main teemo.

Just because you play elise doesnt mean you can downgrade her. ''feast or famine'' dude we arent even fuckin talking about that.

We're talking about their state of balance in which they arent overbearing or weak

MunchCrunchLunchOct 3, 20162 votes

More like Janna in every game

JDB8eoX8x0Oct 3, 20161 votes

Can they just nerf Karma's E spam a little bit? I played Ascension yesterday and two of us had to chase her for 2 minutes before she lost us and ran into her teammates. It's seriously annoying, nerf the movement speed buff a little bit. She's not Janna, she's not Zilean, she's not Nunu. She has more tools than most of these supports and still gets to use the perks that these supports are known for the most? I don't agree with that. I think her usefulness is over the top thanks to the E buffs she received a while ago that gave her overpowered AP scaling.

KarbuncleOct 3, 20164 votes

1.Karma supposed to be good at kiting,and her escapes aren't even great,champions that go overwalls are much better at it. 2.40%-60 for 1.5 seconds is actually weak compared to every other active speed buff 3.Janna's ms buff is passive, of course it's not going to compare to an ability/ult,Karma's peel also doesn't even compare to a passive speed buff,knock up,point and click slow,knockback 4.I disagree heavily that a 1.1 ap scaling is overpowered for an ult and it was BUFFED to that because it wasn't useful before,Riot wanted her shield to be useful and they succeeded ,y'know what else prevents damage? Hard CC that Karma does NOT have.