Ahri needs a nerf.

Dasdi96·Jan 13, 2017·74 votes·6,701 views

She just has too much in her kit. She has great waveclear with q and w, great pick potential with e and her burst, insane mobility with her triple dash and her q movespeed buff, and great roaming as well.

153 Comments

SteelflameJan 13, 201738 votes

Honestly, Ahri herself isn't the problem, it's league's damage creep, of which just pushes her over that edge from not having enough to 1 shot, to having enough to 1 shot. Used to be that if you built any MR at all, you would never die to an Ahri unless she landed literally everything in her kit (including all 3 charges of her ult). Damage creep has pushed her just enough that she now has lee-way, and as such, high consistency where she used to not have it.

League's damage in general needs to massively be tuned away from the burst/extra damage added by masteries. With that, and the Morello rework with the mage update, it pushes her over specific ap limits that are "power points" (AKA 1 shotting casters, 1 shotting melees, and high consistency in lane damage).

Her current state is a symptom of underlying problems, not in and of itself a problem. Also, a point to remember, part of the reason she is good because of her safety in a meta of hyper jungler aggression. Junglers have more free time than they used to have to gank and not farm, and are ganking more as a result. No surprise that a champion who has pretty solid and consistent ability to escape is valuable as a result.

Gallows madnessJan 13, 20173 votes

I can agree with this

PiVoRxJan 13, 20171 votes

And you think how does anyone will kill her if damage in general was lowered (not that i dont agree with this), but Ahri strenght is not her damage, but "unkillability", like, what champion in this game have even fair chances to kill her 1v1? (purposely bypassing team fights where she will also have bodyguards).

Imo her core issue is that there is no window in her rotation of Q-E-R-flash-Zhonya where shes vulnerable long enough to be taken down, and her insanely safe laning phase is another story.

Spice POWAHJan 13, 20177 votes

Orianna can spam Q and W at low levels to either kill her or push her out of lane constantly, from my experience.

SteelflameJan 13, 20175 votes

A lot of mages can either out shove her (She can't roam if her tower is under 24/7 pressure, and her wave clear doesn't really kick in until level 9 unless she is pretty far ahead, and she doesn't have tools that make her roam faster, just the gank stronger at the end of it), or roam harder.

Some champions, as it turns out, the win condition isn't KILL them. It is survive them (Old LB), out-roam them (Anivia), or hold them in lane so they can't roam (Taliyah). Killing them obviously makes it easier, but it isn't the win condition vs them.

Also, a lot of champions use to have 100-0 combos before all this extra damage was added in. Guess what, those champions still have lots of damage, they just are not as needed because you can get someone with higher utility while still having high damage thanks to the damage bloat in the game. Historically, Brand in the mid lane's biggest problem has always been that he has a ton of "overkill" damage, but little utility. Having the damage to overkill someone by 50% of their hp is rather worthless, when I could instead pick someone with just enough to 100-0 someone while having buckets of utility as well. This is what Ahri's state is now, she has just enough to 100-0 someone, with pretty damn high safety. In the current meta, safety is one of the most valuable resources in the game. If we toned down damage creep, we may find people who currently have stupid overkill (Like brand) to not have stupid levels of overkill, and they gain a niche of having a 1 shot combo.

Lets use Nasus in the top lane as an example. You have 2 win conditions vs him. 1, hold him off farm, and deny him all Q stacks you can possibly deny him. Killing him obviously makes this easier, but isn't a required step. 2. Abuse his lack of lane pressure (More than any other champion, Nasus is very reluctant to take his lane opponent's tower early on.), and go win other lanes via ganks/roams. You can not kill Nasus once, but his 600+ Q stacks means nothing if his team has lost mid and bot inhib and are 0/20 at 20 minutes.

Also, Ahri specifically is prone to hard CC, ESPECIALLY if it is targeted. Hit her, chunk 50% of her hp, and let her go. She now has to recall, or you will kill her next pass once the CD is back up when you also blow your ult too. Best counter to mobile bullshit is to strip them of the mobile part of that, or be mobile bullshit yourself.

Lets go back to how you beat Ahri. Lets look at HER win conditions. She has weak teamfighting (Low AoE damage, most of her damage is short ranged). She has strong skirmishing (High mobility, enough damage to kill a single squishy target decently easily). This gives her two win conditions. Either A, dominate her lane opponent and remove them from the game (Not something she can consistently do, but if she does it then good, it enables the second condition far easier), or B, roam, and win the side lanes. She's a skirmisher mage, who has assassination potential, but often depends on longer fights to kill her enemies over many rotations of her abilities. The way to beat these conditions? Don't die to her in lane, deny her roam. If you look at her win rate based on time, she takes a sharp dip in win rate if the game gets long, and people start consistently getting tanky enough to survive her, and are grouped up in the teamfights she is far weaker in.

Restless SlumberJan 13, 201725 votes

Ahri isn't even top tier or OP. She is currently one of the best balanced champions in the game actually and has some of the most fair gameplay. Also if you are trying to say that she is overloaded, please switch your attention to Camille, the champion that has a million steroids in her kit, the champion that could literally have parts of her kit removed and she would still be a complete champion.

PennsJan 13, 20179 votes

Thats what every Ahri main says Kappa

Restless SlumberJan 13, 20178 votes

I main jungle, with nearly 500k points on Nidalee across all of my accounts. I have 200k on Elise, and like 150k on Riven (across all of my accounts). I don't even have mastery 5 on Ahri. If you ask any high elo mid laner they will say that Ahri is iconic, but she isn't that good. The champion is balanced.

PennsJan 13, 201715 votes

Yeah 53-54% win rate for months with over 10% play rate on a "hard" champ that "requires skillshots" seems balanced. Especially when she builds Protobelt and Lich Bane, its just about dodging her skillshots lel

Restless SlumberJan 13, 20178 votes

Ahri hasn't been OP for months. You would have seen her played more in high elo, but in NA there is only 1 challenger player that frequently plays Ahri and that's Shiphtur. Even Shiphtur thinks that she's only good. A 53-54% win rate on Ahri isn't irregular also. Ahri isn't hard at all. Skillshots aren't what make a champion hard.

PennsJan 13, 20179 votes

If anything, she was overshadowed by even more op picks like Syndra and Ryze in high elo but pretty much all of those are getting nerfed, so...

AirKingNeoJan 14, 20172 votes

And Ahri was "OP" before Syndra and Ryze? No.

Velzard of KozJan 13, 201711 votes

She is currently one of the best balanced champions in the game actually

Velkoz item 3070

Gallows madnessJan 13, 20174 votes

I'm a top laner/supp main and I can agree. If you want OP look at jayce for fuck sakes or yasuo.

charge attackJan 14, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Ahri isn't even top tier or OP. She is currently one of the best balanced champions in the game actually and has some of the most fair gameplay. Also if you are trying to say that she is overloaded, please switch your attention to Camille, the champion that has a million steroids in her kit, the champion that could literally have parts of her kit removed and she would still be a complete champion.

Thank you! I was reading on boards how overpowered Ahri was and I decided to purchase and play her myself. Honestly she is NOT that overpowered, but actually feels GOOD to play. Like when you're behind you feel like you're behind, but you don't feel utterly useless. When you're ahead you don't feel like you own the game. She CAN burst squishies, but honestly if you don't hit your charm its nearly impossible to 100-0 a squishy. You also pretty much NEED tlords + ludens to 1 shot anyone, as well as a few autos and ignite in most cases (unless you're stupidly far ahead). You also are HEAVILY reliant on your ULT cd. If you don't have your ult you do very little , but with your ult you can be a monster.

Like she needs to hit skillshots to duel anyone, and her Q CD isn't THAT low (unlike for example Syndra's). I honestly think Ahri is one the best champions to play if you want to learn the game.

lolcommunity1Jan 13, 201723 votes

Good god, this is why people should not be allowed to make balance suggestions because they are ALL terrible.

All I ever see is a laundry list of what champion does and pretend they don't have weaknesses. It's either that or the Winrate/Popularity. NEVER is banrate ever taking into account.

Ahri has not been touched in over a year because she already had 3 nerfs in a row. 1 Major and 2 minor. She doesn't need any more.

Stop complaining about champions that are perfectly fine.

Here is an idea, how about actually buffing the competition? Since Ryze and Syndra nerfed, mid lane is starting to get stale just because a huge portion of the champions have been put into the the dumpster. Where is Azir? Zed? Anivia? Viktor is starting to fall off, Aurelion Sol has had one way too many nerfs.

How about some love for Karthus? Those are just small samples.

Cosmic WarperJan 13, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Good god, this is why people should not be allowed to make balance suggestions because they are ALL terrible.

All I ever see is a laundry list of what champion does and pretend they don't have weaknesses. It's either that or the Winrate/Popularity. NEVER is banrate ever taking into account.

Ahri has not been touched in over a year because she already had 3 nerfs in a row. 1 Major and 2 minor. She doesn't need any more.

Stop complaining about champions that are perfectly fine.

Here is an idea, how about actually buffing the competition? Since Ryze and Syndra nerfed, mid lane is starting to get stale just because a huge portion of the champions have been put into the the dumpster. Where is Azir? Zed? Anivia? Viktor is starting to fall off, Aurelion Sol has had one way too many nerfs.

How about some love for Karthus? Those are just small samples.

Yeah boards players that whine all the time aren't very good at the game. They'd rather circlejerk a champion being overpowered than take the time to learn how to play against them. Ahri is nowhere near overpowered like camille, poppy, and ryze.

SaiannaJan 13, 20172 votes

Here comes retarded logic:

Ahri has not been touched in over a year because she already had 3 nerfs in a row. 1 Major and 2 minor. She doesn't need any more.

No matter how many nerfs champion received. If he/she is still too strong, then nerfs should come.

There were cases of champions with like 11 nerfs in a row.. I think it was nocturne.

P.S.

That means you are like the very last person to whine about who's eligible for making balance suggestions.

Cosmic WarperJan 13, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Here comes retarded logic:

No matter how many nerfs champion received. If he/she is still too strong, then nerfs should come.

There were cases of champions with like 11 nerfs in a row.. I think it was nocturne.

P.S.

That means you are like the very last person to whine about who's eligible for making balance suggestions.

Except she's balanced and requires you to land your skillshots to even burst someone...

GayFluffyUnicornJan 14, 20171 votes

So basically like zed but he wasn't allowed to stay at 15pr/54wr for 2 seasons

Cosmic WarperJan 14, 20173 votes

{quoted}

So basically like zed but he wasn't allowed to stay at 15pr/54wr for 2 seasons

Because when he's ahead he's oppresive ( could kill anyone with ult e and auto). Nowadays he's weak due to lethality, exhaust, and the nerfs they gave him.

Ahri when she's ahead can't really one shot someone as fast as zed and her mobility is tied to her ultimate, while zed has his W. He also has manaless waveclear which was one of the reasons he used to be so good in lane

doiminat0r3600Jan 13, 201721 votes

Boards logic:

"OMG I JUST GOT BEAT BY SOMEONE PLAYING _____ AND THEY WERE SO MUCH BETTER THAN MY CHAMPION RITO PLEASE NERF"

Yet when I check your match history, you haven't played any matches in the past 5 days. None of which even went against an Ahri so you don't even know what you're talking about because you lack the experience of facing her.

2Charmnot2CharmJan 13, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Boards logic:

"OMG I JUST GOT BEAT BY SOMEONE PLAYING _____ AND THEY WERE SO MUCH BETTER THAN MY CHAMPION RITO PLEASE NERF"

Yet when I check your match history, you haven't played any matches in the past 5 days. None of which even went against an Ahri so you don't even know what you're talking about because you lack the experience of facing her.

It's always plats and lower bitching about ahri too.

They rather bitch about a champion in hopes that riot listens to them instead of trying to improve at the game.

Sraeg2013Jan 13, 20177 votes

You see, not every champion oscillating between 10% and 15% pickrate (which is huge for mid lane) is allowed to have 52-54% winrate for 3 years non-stop.

Regardless of what you think, her Q is always her first maxed ability, main poke and wave-clear tool, while also doubling as a great disangage tool, basically preventing their enemies from any meaningful in-lane interactions.

Personally I don't have problems with Ahri (I once found a website - sadly I can't find it anymore - which told me my own matchup stats and I had like 71% winrate against Ahri who was my most common matchup), but that part IS pretty frustrating.

dim2aJan 13, 201718 votes

No she doesn't, she's one of the healthiest champions. Look at her banrate, compare to, say, vayne or lee. If no one feels bad enough about facing her to ban her, that's a good indicator she is healthy (not enough by itself to conclude that, but still a pretty significant one).

EnloctJan 13, 201716 votes

Ahri has a lot in her kit, but all of the good stuff is conditional. She either has to get close and take risks, or limit herself to being deadweight. The reason people don't complain is...Ahri is pretty fair. When she beats you you either got outplayed or she was absurdly ahead.

That's a big difference from Rengar "I got 1shotted with no counterplay" or Yasuo "I got engaged on and killed without ever being able to retaliate"

BisaknospJan 13, 20178 votes

oh someone who understands

noice

BisaknospJan 13, 201712 votes

yea great waveclear xD have to wait till lvl 9 in order to kill casters with 1 q and if you want to kill the melees with q w you need to be fed or ahead her 'insane mobility' is on a 110 sec cd on the first rank great pick potential with her e, yea its a dodgeable skillshot so? got hit by it several times in a row and now you complain about her or what? xD

love when people complain about champs and start to exaggerate+not mentioning any weaknesses like her below average early game and the risk you take if you try to deal dmg with r and w or that it is actually really easy to sidestep her q + e plus her 'burst' is only existent if well farmed/fed/ahead + if you get hit by every skillshot and even then there are many champions with better burst

every once in a while some biatches that probably walk into every charm thrown at them complain about ahri zzzz its getting boring

DoktorKaiserJan 13, 20179 votes

She is the Lee Sin of mages, what did you expect. They cant nerf her because of the crying fanbase of weeabos and kids...

Gallows madnessJan 13, 201711 votes

.... Dude.... No. Don't compare them. If anything, azir is the lee sin of mages.

TyrekGoldenspearJan 13, 20174 votes

Except Azir got nerfed. :')

KeikaiSekaiJan 13, 20178 votes

I actually think Ahri is one of the more balanced champions in league. If played well and smart she can solo carry a game. Her kit is really good as well and rewards the right players.

ModAcademy KaynJan 13, 20177 votes

These type of posts tempt my hand just to write "git gud"

BisaknospJan 13, 20172 votes

same

PeeJuiceJan 13, 20176 votes

I don't think she is overpowered, but she does have a lot of tools in her kit that make her very safe while also having high kill potential. I despise playing against a good Ahri.

I play 3 mages mid (Diana, Fizz, and Vel'Koz) and so far none of them completely shutdown a good Ahri. Vel'Koz can clear waves as fast as Ahri, but doesn't have the mobility or sustain like her. He also has a true damage proc, but has to hit you with 3 abilities (or with both procs of W and one ability, or first 3 ticks of his ult). Ahri just has to hit you with the return of her Q for true damage, which isn't too difficult when you gain 215 movement speed after firing it.

Diana can clear waves with her Q and W, and try to burst Ahri, but relies on hitting her Q on a highly mobile mage and if I ult on Ahri, I just get charmed and bursted back. Diana has to go back to base to heal, while Ahri sustains back up after a few spell cycles.

Fizz is in the same boat as Diana, but has multiple gap closers and a way to avoid the charm, but no reliant wave clear. So, Ahri shoves Fizz to tower and is able to roam more often.

This is just a sample size of what I deal with using my champion pool. I'm sure there are others that have champions they play that can shut her down, and I would like to hear about them.

I think she is annoying to play against, but not ban worthy.

BisaknospJan 13, 20173 votes

these are all skill matchups ahri doesnt really have favorable matchups she is 'okay' or 'alright' against most

and a good (<- keep that in mind) diana should actually beat ahri (or at least dominate the lane) vel koz outranges her and has good chances to kill as long as he dodges charm fizz can outplay ahri (and ahri fizz)

NineTailedMysticJan 13, 20172 votes

Diana and Fizz should shit on Ahri post 6.

MFTORANK1Jan 13, 20175 votes

Like I've stated in my previous balance thread I think TD is the problem, it allows bursty champ to one shot you, ahri was fine before TD, you could actually escape her. Now she summoner 14 EQW R R R TD Proc and you are dead. There isn't any counterplay to that, I've played about 20 games on her and faced her many times. Before she would have to poke you with Q a couple times before killing , wich means if you could avoir her charm or Q's you would be fine but now she can just 100-0 even if she misses her charm because of how much TD does early.

Gallows madnessJan 13, 20171 votes

TD???

MFTORANK1Jan 13, 20175 votes

Thunderlord Decree

Gallows madnessJan 13, 20172 votes

I'll agree to that I believe decree is a little strong on her, but there are more mages that can be viewed as a problem over ahri in strengths or term of power.

When AP varus becomes meta, Mid lane is screwed, or changed forever.

That's when you know mages are truly messed up.

coughs 75% hp damage later

WTF what is that damage ~~from the bronze 5~~

just 3 autos and 1 skill shot :3

Wind-up god or is that toy plank?

BisaknospJan 13, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Like I've stated in my previous balance thread I think TD is the problem, it allows bursty champ to one shot you, ahri was fine before TD, you could actually escape her. Now she EQW R R R TD Proc and you are dead. There isn't any counterplay to that, I've played about 20 games on her and faced her many times. Before she would have to poke you with Q a couple times before killing , wich means if you could avoir her charm or Q's you would be fine but now she can just 100-0 even if she misses her charm because of how much TD does early.

did i just read that right so a champion is not allowed to kill you when you get hit by every single ability? are you actually retarded? 'no counterplay' when the champ has 2 skillshots and needs to be in close range in order to do more damage while being squishy af so you just stand still when you get attacked by ahri, hoping the other player thinks you dc'd and have mercy with you? disgusting player xddd just uninstall

change your comment to 'i faced her many times and still dont know how to play against ahri i'm garbage'

kek

ElohavenJan 13, 20175 votes

Ahri is easy to blow up though. I always destroy her once she pops her ultimate.

Sugar MommaJan 13, 20172 votes

You aren't wrong, but this argument is a bit weak. Every champ is weaker when their ultimate is down. It isn't really a valid weakness.

It's like saying when an ADC is too strong that their weakness is that they're "squishy" or they have "no escape" (which Jinx , MissFortune , Varus , KogMaw , Ashe , and Jhin have all been OP -- and nerfed -- in the past despite having these "weaknesses.")

SpecterVonBarenJan 13, 20173 votes

All I want is for her ult to have a longer cooldown. I'm fine with her having it as a strength but it's up to freaking much for how much safety and initiation power it gives her.

NineTailedMysticJan 13, 20172 votes

110/95/80 is pretty average.

SpecterVonBarenJan 14, 20171 votes

And it's still too low for what it does.

NineTailedMysticJan 14, 20174 votes

Sure I'll take a 10s CD nerf if it gets people to shut up about Ahri.