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PSA: The method used in the warwick rework is NOT normal for riot.

Paroe··17 votes·2,142 views

The method used for the warwick rework is NOT the same method employed usually; Riots usual method is the trump method; Change an already mildly successful product with an existing userbase and to whatever YOU think it should be. This method has a very high rate of failure and often alienates existing users. This method can be seen most recently in the reworks of shen and malzahar. Cassiopeia is one of the more infamous examples as well.

The warwick rework employs the buffet method; Change an already successful product with an existing userbase only how much is needed to help the product perform in the current market. This method has a very high rate of success, and doesnt alienate many existing users because the changes retain the products existing identity and playstyles without drastic changes.

The Buffet method is NOT riots normal method in regards to champion reworks, it is VERY out of their norm. Although personally im glad CT didnt pull a trump. Its nice to see someone who respects the original designers vision.

23 Comments

Sogreth8 votes

I would really like if they remove the eye sore from his back. And actually make him look cool.

Big Lincoln3 votes

le cool h8 trump meme

Rengar Top Lane3 votes

You're forgetting Rengar. Op as he is, even his playerbase started turning away from maining him religiously. Warwick's the new hype atm.

Xeruon3 votes

CertainlyT is the kind of developer that should be working on much more fast-paced games than this in my opinion. Granted, his work on League isn't bad, it's just that when I look at his contribution to the game, I can't help but feel like it doesn't belong into League

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Can't stump the Trump :^)

Spârky2 votes

Umm i was an old cass fan but i think her rework worked out just fine shes still very fun to play and her miasma affect is really good and gives her a little but of utility.

warpenguin55510 votes

wrong cass rework

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Only took them years to try this method of rework, hopefully they stick to it. I know I'm not the only one tired of old favorites being outright replaced.

EinarUlfar2 votes

I'd like for them to stick to this approach, honestly. I may be going a bit over-the-top here, but I think the Warwick rework is the best quality rework we've had yet. Unfortunately, CertainlyT himself said he didn't like being confined by having to keep Warwick as true to his old-self as possible, yet he did an excellent job and many are happy with what appears to be the outcome of his work.

Caytheles1 votes

all reworks are fine.

Ahristocats1 votes

Caitlyn Graves reminder that certainlyt did the same for those one

as i said he learned from Mordekaiser

i seriously hope that most of the VGU will be done by him

EinarUlfar1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkUG2pE4,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-01-13T14:32:00.005+0000)

Caitlyn Graves reminder that certainlyt did the same for those one

as i said he learned from Mordekaiser

i seriously hope that most of the VGU will be done by him

As do I; I find his work nothing short of impressive. (=

Naut3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkUG2pE4,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-01-13T14:32:00.005+0000)

Caitlyn Graves reminder that certainlyt did the same for those one

as i said he learned from Mordekaiser

i seriously hope that most of the VGU will be done by him

He murdered my favorite champion in the game. I will never be able to play Graves ADC like I used to.

Ahristocats1 votes

lol?

graves adc still works, but unlike before you can't lane normally you have to all in everytime but you can still poke with your Q if your support has a stun

nothing wrong with ADC graves, people play him in the jungle because it's better at least before, now with the E nerf graves is no longer tanky as hell before he was seriously too tanky now we might see people picking him bot lane again

RocketRelm3 votes

we might see people picking him bot again

I highly doubt that, at least unless he gets general-case buffed. The reasoning "a champion didn't meet the bar for X role, but now that the champion is nerfed, they'll maybe see play in X role because their Y role is weaker" doesn't work for me. At least not in this case. It generally only works if said champion is wildly overpowered and the nerf heavy-targets the dominant role while not affecting the recessive role almost at all.

I'd have to see it to be sure, but I don't think it offers much outside of the more dominant options, and I haven't seen a single graves bot in 6 months, before or after the nerf.

That said, you can probably make it work fairly effectively with a little practice. If nothing else it'll be confusing for the enemy from sheer lack of experience playing against it.

Ahristocats1 votes

i saw one today

funny

PermabannedGaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vestigial Skill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qkUG2pE4,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2017-01-13T14:56:52.761+0000)

He murdered my favorite champion in the game. I will never be able to play Graves ADC like I used to.

Graves ADC was generic garbage my friend. I am sorry if this upsets you.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Cait has become an absolute nightmare.

I'm not really on board with flaming CertainlyT relentlessly, but let's not act like he's "God of the Reworks" now, either. He has good ideas which sometimes work and sometimes don't, as all designers do.

Ahristocats1 votes

months ago he was being praised for his cait and graves rework

honestly cait just need changes on traps that's all, but her kit is fine

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yeah, you're making good points.

My concern is that we will start considering this work a success just because it takes awhile to figure out which parts of the kit are broken. Broken is broken, whether we find it now or later. And in both the cases you mentioned, I think they were messed up. I may not have realized it at the time, but that's irrelevant to their current state.

Champ design is a state function; the path taken doesn't matter. If we land at a place where they are broken, then there's a problem. And in those cases, I think the reworks caused problems.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, you're making good points.

My concern is that we will start considering this work a success just because it takes awhile to figure out which parts of the kit are broken. Broken is broken, whether we find it now or later. And in both the cases you mentioned, I think they were messed up. I may not have realized it at the time, but that's irrelevant to their current state.

Champ design is a state function; the path taken doesn't matter. If we land at a place where they are broken, then there's a problem. And in those cases, I think the reworks caused problems.

I think the new warwick is slightly less powerful and MUCH more thematicly driven than the old one - its a good rework because it makes minimal changes... Its not like malzahar where everything that made him who he was was nerfed in favor of a dumb gimmick that took away his build diversity and was only viable because of an extremely broken passive.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

You are correct. That is my impression, as well.

But that has nothing to do with why I jumped into this thread. It's not time to decide that everything CertainlyT does is magic just because he did two reworks that were marginally well received. Especially since those ended up having problems, anyway.

LordGeovanni1 votes

besides loseing the final aoe team attack speed steroid in the game i like it

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