Wukong has the most toxic kit. 100-0 you while being invisible

PapaGreg21·Aug 9, 2018·25 votes·7,535 views

Invisible ability champs like Wukong need to be kept lower damage than champs you can actually see. I'm glad Riot is bringing his power down.

45 Comments

PandaNator43Aug 9, 201821 votes

Not really 100-0. But a big chunk, then he knocks up you and anyone around you. So you and your team don't get a chance to kite/peel before he gets his full rotation off.

Not most toxic kit, but its up there.

PapaGreg21Aug 9, 20184 votes

I've seen him 100-0 people quite often in the last couple months so I disagree with you that he can't finish you off by the time his ultimate is over. It's sad that he can do something like this from being invisible and still not be considered the most toxic champ. Says something about the balance in the game.

PandaNator43Aug 9, 20185 votes

He isn't invisible while he's doing damage.

I mean, I've seen a lot of champ 100-0 people in one rotation. I think feels-bad comes less from his stealth-into-gap-close and more from from the his knock up that comes after that prevents you or you team from doing anything.

Maybe this is a better way of putting it:

The pressure he puts on with this stealth, plus his gap closer, plus his AOE knockup give too much baseline strength. So since his numbers along with Electrocute and Duskblade are so high he's too powerful.

EedatAug 9, 201813 votes

100-0 you while being invisible

Wukong actually cannot damage you at all while invisible lol. Using any skills or auto attacking breaks it

DuskDaUmbreonAug 9, 201817 votes

While that is technically correct, effectively it's irrelevant, as he starts the burst while invisible.

EedatAug 9, 20188 votes

Uhhh, no lol. Effectively it's not, as he is visible at all times while damaging you

DuskDaUmbreonAug 9, 201818 votes

Okay. He runs at you while invisible.

As soon as he's in E range, every single fucking thing from there doesn't matter whether it's visible or invisible, as he hits you regardless.

He instabursts you from stealth. You get no ability to react to it. It's completely irrelevant whether or not you can see him as you get point and click bursted, as you couldn't see him when you technically could react.

EedatAug 9, 20185 votes

FFS read the damn statement being discussed

100-0 you while being invisible

WHILE being invisible

WHILE

#while (h)wīl/

at the same time; meanwhile.

At no point is Wukong ever damaging you while being stealthed. Wukong is damaging you 0% of the time while in stealth. Wukong does no burst to you while in stealth. It is not effectively damaging you while being in stealth. He bursts you AFTER being stealthed. That is a completely different statement. Effectively does not apply here in the context that you used it. He does have another method to conceal his presence while bursting you. Its not a technicallity. It's not "effectively the same". It's a matter or true and false. Fact and fiction. If you had said "well he bursts you FROM stealth", you'd be correct. And yes, you DO have time to react

DuskDaUmbreonAug 9, 201820 votes

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pedantic?s=t

EedatAug 9, 20187 votes

how to cop out 101

Not my fault you use words that you dont know the meaning of

AyzevAug 9, 201810 votes

Not his fault that you'd rather argue over semantics than discuss the topic at hand

LakegaAug 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

FFS read the damn statement being discussed

#while (h)wīl/

at the same time; meanwhile.

At no point is Wukong ever damaging you while being stealthed. Wukong is damaging you 0% of the time while in stealth. Wukong does no burst to you while in stealth. It is not effectively damaging you while being in stealth. He bursts you AFTER being stealthed. That is a completely different statement. Effectively does not apply here in the context that you used it. He does have another method to conceal his presence while bursting you. Its not a technicallity. It's not "effectively the same". It's a matter or true and false. Fact and fiction. If you had said "well he bursts you FROM stealth", you'd be correct. And yes, you DO have time to react

Oh look, another moron who has to mince words because he lost the initial argument and has nothing to back it up with.

Sona PingAug 9, 20189 votes

Well in that case, ZED actually is the one who has the most toxic kit.

He 100-0's you while being invisible and untargetable.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 9, 20186 votes

Zed is never invisible at any point in time, though. Not leading up to the burst, not during the burst, not to escape it, not to get to lane faster...never.

Zed's problem is also not the small untargetability window he has (although that is a bit of an issue, it's a minor one). The issue is that after that you don't get to react at all. The same is true for Wukong - The problem isn't the burst from stealth, the problem is that you can't react to anything happening at all, except to mash Zhonya's, because you just don't have time to.

You can't reasonably dodge Zed's Q and E after he casts ult, unless he wastes time to cast W as well for unnecessary extra damage. It's just not a reasonable thing to expect someone to be able to do. You can't dodge anything of Wukong's, nor can you react to it, and that's also a problem.

Look at Akali: Sure, she's invisible for half of the fight, but you know the general area she's in, and you're still capable of hitting her. You have time to react. You have the ability to do something against her. Or Evelynn: She runs around in near-permastealth from level 6 onward, but you still have the ability to react to her.

Then you have these two, who you can't really do anything to avoid their damage. Eve, you can stay away and dodge her Q. Akali, just move out of the shroud (or don't, if you don't need to), and you can dodge her E and R, and prevent her from getting her passive off on you.

Sona PingAug 9, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Zed is never invisible at any point in time, though. Not leading up to the burst, not during the burst, not to escape it, not to get to lane faster...never.

Yes, he is invisible during his ult. He vanishes which is him becoming both invisible and untargetable. He is not visible and targetable nor invisible but untargetable.

Edited section: Zed's problem is also not the small untargetability window he has (although that is a bit of an issue, it's a minor one)....

While that is technically correct, effectively it's irrelevant. So that means he does kill you while untargetable and invisible. And it's pedantic. I've now called listing the differences "pedantic" so that means I don't have to address how the description does not line up with how the game functions. Or do I still need to link a site like urbandictionary of all places to finish this replacement of an argument?

(Do you see how this is a bad argument that does not work?)

{quoted}

Except we still know exactly where he is: Right behind you, untargetable and unhittable.

If their physical body is not visible, but they have something that tells you exactly where they are regardless, they aren't invisible. Kayn is not invisible during his R, Yi is not invisible during his Q, Zed is not invisible during his R. Kalista's support isn't invisible when she presses R, either. You know exactly where they are, you know exactly where they'll be.

More straight-forward now, I have to now doubt that you understand what "invisible" means. Because they literally are.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 9, 20182 votes

Except we still know exactly where he is: Right behind you, untargetable and unhittable.

If their physical body is not visible, but they have something that tells you exactly where they are regardless, they aren't invisible. Kayn is not invisible during his R, Yi is not invisible during his Q, Zed is not invisible during his R. Kalista's support isn't invisible when she presses R, either. You know exactly where they are, you know exactly where they'll be.

LordGeovanniAug 9, 20181 votes

zed appears behind you after the animation. He is not behind you the whole time.

rtbf221651412Aug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Okay. He runs at you while invisible.

As soon as he's in E range, every single fucking thing from there doesn't matter whether it's visible or invisible, as he hits you regardless.

He instabursts you from stealth. You get no ability to react to it. It's completely irrelevant whether or not you can see him as you get point and click bursted, as you couldn't see him when you technically could react.

You realize you can see him because he leave a phantom mirror image right?

Spicy RiceAug 9, 20182 votes

That moment when you are effectively avoiding the argument by arguing semantics.

ArammusAug 9, 20186 votes

i still prefer wu over zed. you can see zed, but his w+e is so fast you cant do anything against it. and his q is very flexible aswell. if both of them hit you, youre done for lol

hOrnnAug 10, 20181 votes

well wukong is a zed counter after all ;D

zed is alot safer in lane then wukong, if we are talking top wukong has alot of bad matchups, if were talking mid just pick champions with poke/stun/hard cc and push him off farm early.

i never played wukong jungle.

RengClawAug 9, 20184 votes

yasuo has the most toxic kit ever

z63XnLCMwXAug 9, 20183 votes

Wu hits pretty hard, but can he 100-0 no clown like Rengar?

BisaknospAug 9, 20183 votes

Talon Khazix watwat?

and while they have camouflage they arent any different-> Evelynn Rengar

rtbf221651412Aug 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

and while they have camouflage they arent any different->

Please tell me you didn't compare Evelynn to Rengar.

Moon MomAug 9, 20183 votes

Amazing that people don't know how to ward or react to linear playstyles.

hOrnnAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moon Mom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qiPHNwmr,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-08-09T17:30:28.783+0000)

Amazing that people don't know how to ward or react to linear playstyles.

i agree thats why i dont play wukong his playstyle is so basic its boring.

hotarseAug 9, 20183 votes

Ima take some downvotes for this but I stand with Wuke and against YAS against ZOE against PRYKE against LeBJ against cerTAINTlyT and I stand with the people. COME AT ME BRO cult.

TempName54846Aug 9, 20183 votes

wukong is generally easier to play around than fiddle, decent wards and basic awareness will shit on a soloQ wukong, now if he has a team comp built around him its a whole another story but ya know.

TheMysticWarAug 9, 20182 votes

He should stay in the gutter until he gets a rework, just like Zoe

Teridax68Aug 9, 20182 votes

The problem is that the damage causing Wukong to 100-0 people from stealth doesn't come as much from his kit, as it does from Duskblade + Electrocute. Wukong's abilities could deal 1 damage each and he could still chunk you for a significant amount from stealth, simply because of how bullshit those damage sources are. Prior to this, Wukong actually felt pretty weak, and would likely go back to feeling weak if Duskblade, Ignite and Electrocute were to be nerfed (which will apparently happen to the latter soon). I completely agree that champions shouldn't be able to apply upfront burst from stealth, though in this case I think that's more a case for removing/nerfing stuff like Duskblade, than it is for reworking Wukong (I do think he needs a rework, but for different reasons).

Meep ManAug 9, 20182 votes

The entire point of invisibility champions is to have high burst, just saying.

mack9112Aug 9, 20181 votes

That's why they are nerfing him :)

D4M2X0Aug 9, 20181 votes

i hate yasuo/fizz/vlad/zoe and shit like that but the absolute worst designed champ is rengar, manaless stealth 1 clicker that doesnt allow anyone to go near bushes.

LordGeovanniAug 9, 20181 votes

wukong is the only invisible champion with a massively large teller. You can miss The exclimation mark over your head much easier than you can miss a monkey standing still.

EltacitoAug 9, 20181 votes

I feel like shaco is incredibly toxic. He can walk up to you in stealth in whatever and one shot you, or cc your and then one shot you. They really need to change it to where you can see him when he gets a certain distance from him like evelyn so their is reaction time.

Just 4 MemesAug 9, 20181 votes

I get that Wukong is difficult to deal with if he is snowballing, lets just remember he is in lane with 4 armor and 4 magic resist for a passive. He has a strong mid game because his early game is pretty bad.

I am confused as to why people are picking on MonkeyKing specifically now. He is doing the job assassins are meant to do, and that is basically the most optimal way to build him. Doesn't Khazix Rengar Talon Zed Diana and a few others 100-0 you as well if they are either well farmed or fed from kills? Many of those assassins also have invisibility such as Evelynn .

I get that there is a lot of over tuned damage in the game, but I just think Wukong deserves to be good at something. Right now the only thing he is good at is damage with some utility from his ult (if he doesn't fall behind). If his mid-late game is getting so many nerfs can we at least get some improvement to his early lane game? His passive is 99% irrelevant in lane, and he has shitty mana. :)

RainXBladeAug 9, 20181 votes

Um, Shaco also does the same shit.

hOrnnAug 10, 20181 votes

lol??? wukong stealth last for 1.5 seconds wukong is a nooblord thats played by people who can play tryndamere and yi, i have underworld wukong skin and never use it because the champion is soo damn boring....w q e r zz

Barbie GirlAug 10, 20181 votes

another silver whining about a specific champion, just ignore them please.

PapaGreg21Aug 15, 20181 votes

I'm gold, hombre. Thank you for your incorrect insult though.

BobaFlautistAug 10, 20181 votes

Twitch Khazix Rengar Shaco Vayne same.

LovelleApr 18, 20191 votes

Try playing more durable champions, watch as he can't do anything after blows his load. He's such a weak duelist that he can't even kill tanks by himself. He may have a lot of burst, but he does have weaknesses. His sustained damage output is terrible and I'm pretty sure his laning phase is among the worst in the game for melee champions.