Revert Zac's ult

Monstermushmush·Nov 10, 2018·52 votes·16,064 views

It will make him less op in pro play and more fun for the other 99% of us. Most Zac players agree that his new ult is too hit-or-miss, and that his old ult was overall more satisfying.

68 Comments

invisiblecat1Nov 10, 201823 votes

I say revert his entire kit in general Old Zac was fine the way he was, and could even be played top

New Zac is just annoying and has too much displacement

NevrankroatonNov 11, 201813 votes

Old Zac had a boring ass kit outside of his E, I don't know why people try to push a narrative where it isn't true when his Q is a simple slow button, his W is a "I do damage if you near me" and his R is "I move around to push people". His E is iconic but a champion kit should be more than one spell.

I agree that his old ult was nice, but the new one fit far better his thematic of being a goo/slime character. His new Q is very powerful but fit far better his kit than him doing a gomu gomu no boringo.

WyrmbladeNov 11, 20187 votes

Man you don't need to be complicated to be fun.

Excellent EraNov 12, 20181 votes

is annie's kit boring?

if you answer yes, should she get a revert?

I've heard kassadin is boring.

what about pantheon

NevrankroatonNov 13, 20181 votes

Revert about what exactly about Annie/Kassadin/Pantheon?

Zac need to be balanced differently, not reverted to the fucking eighties because people love to wear nostalgia glasses.

Excellent EraNov 14, 20181 votes

gomu gomu no pistol is not boring..

and I meant to say rework*

because it seems like you're saying there's something wrong with boring champs and they have to get updated to zoe

NevrankroatonNov 14, 20182 votes

Pantheon is in HUGE need of a rework anyway so yes, I would gladly take it.

Question is that you have Zac, the slime/goo champion, someone who is sticky and can jump from far way. A fantastic and lovable character. And his Q is "Blep, I throw my arm in front of me and it slow". It isn't an integral part of his kit, it isn't a low CD spell you have to properly chain to make Zac kit work. It was just here. "Blep, I hit you". You can remove his Q and it would still feel like Zac, it wouldn't even harm him that much.

When his new Q totally fit his thematic, it continu with his thematic of being a tank with huge catch tool for the cons of not having innate tankiness boost. Of course, this incredible catch power made him nerfed because it is super strong but at least, it feel iconic.

I don't mind someone having a simple spell if it fit his kit, is logical, etc. Olaf axe is not incredible by itself but it entirely fit his character, his purpose, his gameplay, etc.

Hell, I love Annie and low key main her and I would be okay with a rework that make her kit feel more harmonious, notably her W.

slurobNov 11, 201817 votes

I would be so happy if they reverted him. He was one of my favorite champs to play. I doubt that they would revert him though,more likely they would rework him into something else.

Horse GrenadesNov 10, 201811 votes

REVERT ZAC

MarkedOfKaneNov 11, 20189 votes

Revert Q and R

WHEN?

Also Sejuani

KOGMIDONLYNov 10, 20187 votes

Revert pls

Baron BarianNov 11, 20187 votes

His old ult sucked. It really didn't actually bring anything except a tiny bit of damage and less cc than what an old from a tank should bring.

The new ult his hit or miss because it relies on you making a good engage, but the old one was just do-very-little or miss.

TheSingularityNov 11, 20188 votes

His old ult was a fantastic follow up engage to his E but also a reliable disengage if your carries got dove. While it had less displacement distance it far from sucked. I was able to get just as much value out of it as a naut or malphite ult. It's then obscenely team reliant and useless in lane along with his Q. Killing any chances of him seeing play up top. That and it was far easier to balance than current, where he's seen nerfs because his innate utility is so stupidly strong in pro play. Leaving the rest of his playerbase hanging out to try

rtbf36083462Nov 11, 20181 votes

It’s 2018. Bland AOE damage + CC ultimates are no longer up to Riot’s standards for tank design.

Only HOTS is lame enough to keep that stuff in the game.

WyrmbladeNov 11, 20183 votes

His new ult is literally AOE damage and CC though.

rtbf36083462Nov 11, 20181 votes

*utility that no other champion in the game has (mass enemy teleportation) except maybe poppy

TheSingularityNov 11, 20182 votes

How was his old R in anyway bland? Be bounced around the battlefield erratically

rtbf36083462Nov 12, 20181 votes

*mini Amumu ult every other second 3 times while walking around. Only affects champs once.

TheSingularityNov 12, 20182 votes

This applies to Anivia Annie AurelionSol Braum Cassiopeia Galio Fizz Gangplank Gnar Gragas Irelia Lissandra Nautilus Maokai Malphite Ornn Orianna Poppy Rumble Sejuani Sion Zyra MonkeyKing So many mini amumu ults.

KindlessApr 13, 20191 votes

Erratically means irregular, which his ult wasn't. His ult was bland cause: A: It was hit R and forget, compared to Choose one: tap R for one old bounce or hold for 1.5s to Malphite Ult with ability to Rocket Grab (or more likely Realm Warp) them away. B: Fuck, I already told my B in A, but heck. You have your old ult knockback, just single time, if you tap your new R. C: You have MonkeyKing R, which is a better version of old Zacs R with a two ability driven (W+E + items) Slingshot.

KindlessApr 13, 20191 votes

How about this engage, bud: You E into the backline of enemy team, you Q ADC and Mid/Support together, then you instantly ult for 1s and bring them to your team? That's a bad engage? Especially that you don't need to move their carries away, you can just bounce in place, providing Crowd Control. How about disengage: You see enemies chasing your low HP carries? R between you and your carries. If they go over you, you just bounce them back and E, or just use it like old ult and knockback them a bit. Old R is just one button press after you E'd in, practically a no-brainer. New R has the same capabilities of old R, just in one instance (which is enough to peel), while his new ult can be a Malphite Ult or AoE Rocket Grab. Sure, Toplane Zac is dead with those changes, but have you heard of Ornn ? He is similar with what he does and he goes toplane. Do you miss old Zac? Play MonkeyKing . He has long stealth W+E+R engage (especially with item 3742 and ) which makes as much CC and same ult capabilities as old Zac. And can be played nearly everywhere.

I don't understand people weeping over rewerting reworks (unless it's f.e. Aatrox , which is just another Riven and Rengar , which was a third champion with Sejuani 's Winters Wrath and XinZhao 's WbL). Even if a lot of them loose their signature abilities (f.e. Galio and Poppy 's ults [Hello Enigma and Legion Commander]), they still manage to bring a fresh air and depth to their characters. I understand nostalgia and sh!t, but League has a variety of about 150 champions to play and love. I know I am a lucky one to get Morgana in the same state I knew her and love but better, but some champions just are antifun for everyone else but their mains, and that's a problem. Plus, we would have half of the roster just dead until some random builds arise...

Also, fun note that most of the reverting reworks hit assasins I believe...

TheGr8WhiteDNov 11, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qd2UHbEg,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-11-11T00:37:09.907+0000)

His old ult sucked. It really didn't actually bring anything except a tiny bit of damage and less cc than what an old from a tank should bring.

The new ult his hit or miss because it relies on you making a good engage, but the old one was just do-very-little or miss.

Frankly, and above all else, it simply fit his fantasy more and added a nice bit of flavor to his kit. It provided you with a movement speed buff. It also had alot of more creativive uses, such as flash ulting a carry to backflip them into your team, or using it to peel and knock people away. It was far more flexible than the new ult. The new ult is just much easier to see its power of from a viewer perspective as its just an aoe CC thats quite noticable, which is the obvious reason for the change. "Oh my god! LCS Jungler Junglegodxd got 4 people with the zac ultimate! What a god!" Yeah, I dont care if my champion is picked in pro play or not as long as its enjoyable. Now Zac is not seen in pro play, solo que, and his main playerbase has abandoned him. Complete and utter failure.

KindlessApr 13, 20191 votes

Frankly, and above all else, it simply fit his fantasy more and added a nice bit of flavor to his kit.

Like his new ult doesn't? You bounce them up with your E on your way in, you Q them to bring them together and then bounce them wherever you want. Maybe you not bounce yourself a ton, but you bounce your enemies into a misery of a wombo combo or shet.

It also had alot of more creativive uses, such as flash ulting a carry to backflip them into your team, or using it to peel and knock people away.

Aaand you still cannot do that? When you just tap it it's old ult. Also his hold button R can make a zoning tool. Plus if you max Q (after slingshot ofc.) you can reliably bring two of their carries back to your team a longer distance than old ult.

The new ult is just much easier to see its power of from a viewer perspective as its just an aoe CC thats quite noticable, which is the obvious reason for the change.

Yeah, sure. Because a blob doing nothing but bounce around and enemies once is far less visible. Also what's wrong about Zac and his ult being viable? You're a Zac OTP or something, you affraid of others picking a viable jungler?

Yeah, I dont care if my champion is picked in pro play or not as long as its enjoyable. Now Zac is not seen in pro play, solo que, and his main playerbase has abandoned him.

So you don't care if he's being played or you do care? You confuse me or you're a hypocritic.

Complete and utter failure.

Said by Zac OTP that played this rework once or twice? Get back under a rock if you have no idea what are you talking about.

KazekibaNov 11, 20185 votes

Yeah I much prefer the channeled knockback self-disarm to a dozen 400 unit dashes that are also knockbacks and also do damage.

He needs a new Q because both his old and new are stupid but at least his current Q is thematic and unique

RIP Tahm KenchNov 13, 20181 votes

His old ult was not a dash? I don't think it even had that much of a movement speed boost on it.

The old ult was also not a knockback every bounce; it knocked you back once for a short distance lasting about half a second, and subsequent bounces only did reduced damage. It also wasn't really a channel, the only thing that interrupted it was suppress and stasis effects.

RisenFromTheAshNov 11, 20185 votes

Why not both? Wouldn't it be sick if instead you had the option between the two? Right now if you tap the ult you just knock back, and when you charge the ult it grabs people. What if when you tapped R it did his old ult? Or like 3 bounces instead of 5.

TheSingularityNov 11, 20183 votes

Because then he'd be even more broken in pro play.

Excellent EraNov 11, 20185 votes

PLEASE REVERT ZAC. Zac

Jar Jar binks lNov 11, 20184 votes

I loved the old Zac ahahah. Just revert him already, meddler anwser us

AhhShucksNov 11, 20184 votes

Ya'll are crazy. His new kit is way more fun

TheGr8WhiteDNov 11, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Ya'll are crazy. His new kit is way more fun

Youre a fucking solo lane player. How would you even know hes fun or not? You literally dont even play the champion. You dont have a single Zac or jungle game in the entire season. Yet you have people who ACTUALLY PLAYED THE CHAMPION saying they dont like it, and no longer play it after the rework.

AhhShucksNov 12, 20183 votes

I've barely played ranked this season at all. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

I played zac in a bunch of normals just the other day and had WAY more fun than I ever did on his old kit.

I'm not trying to comment on his balance, but he was a lot more fun than before.

Rito ZacNov 19, 20182 votes

I'm with you on this one to a degree. His new kit is amazingly fun, snatching the carry or performing a rad wombo. Old kit could perform the same but had to be done more precise. I dunno but I just enjoy the guy. And fixing his run cycle by adding literally a spring to his step makes me squee

KindlessApr 13, 20191 votes

Such precision, like half of new Zacs abilities were made to reflect more skill and precision than his old kit. Also I never heard of old R bringing ALL 5 enemies closer to your team for wombo combo. But sure, probably it could even bring you Chips from McDonalds, I'm pretty sure of it.

Pandemic PunchNov 11, 20183 votes

Came here to upvote

TyqueshaNov 11, 20183 votes

I bet your boyfriend doesn't even kiss ya.

DarkSoul1994Nov 12, 20183 votes

Not to mention that, for any decent Zac player, you could do the same thing with old Zac R.

I pretty much haven't touched Zac Sejuani since their reworks (Sejuani and Zac being my Season 5 & 6 mains in Ranked).

Bouncemaster ZacNov 11, 20182 votes

Please.

Just a clone bruNov 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

hit-or-miss

I guess they never miss huh? You got a boyfriend i bet he doesnt kiss ya!:D He gon skrrt and hit the dab like Wiz Khalifa

CaveslothNov 12, 20182 votes

Honestly the only one from the tank update that doesn't need reverted was Maokai, but if they did it wouldn't hurt my feelings either. I would be happy with him either way. So yeah, Revert Sej completely, and Zacs ulty.

EcophileNov 12, 20182 votes

The reason they changed Zac's ult is not because it was not fun to play, but because it was not to play against. Riot tried to give counterplay and a more unique playstyle. The old Zac was like a malphite on steroids. Now malph got his place as the fast knockup and zac has its place as a slow mass displacer.

I can agree that jumping in the air might be fun, but if you look at the overall picture, the rework was a great one. It made Zac truly unique, with strengths and weaknesses. I wish they would do that with the new reworks too. Now all the champs getting reworked or designed have a zillion tools to move around, do damage, mitigate damage, crowd control, get health back, etc.

Your request goes against champion diversity. There are many simplistic champions in the game. If you want something like his old ult go see this dude MonkeyKing

ZT XperimentorNov 12, 20182 votes

Yet riot continues to make and remake more champions unfun to fight, at least zac's was obvious and limited.

KindlessApr 13, 20191 votes

Play DotA 2... Volvo's hero design might flourish be once per 5 years, but at least heroes have one dash, not 10. Also everybody can have teleport, flash, heal, clarity, targeted nuke, stasis on anybody, AoE tower pushing, unstoppable etc. on items. Sure, it's hell to learn, but otherwise most of characters have max 2 dashes.

EDIT: And it has Arcade, with modified maps/gamemodes/rules on demand. URF every year or half? What a joke is this?!

Excellent EraNov 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The reason they changed Zac's ult is not because it was not fun to play, but because it was not to play against.

that's odd.. zac got over 100% ban rate after his rework

and as far as I know if you're on the enemy team and get E'd, you have zero counter play against the new zac ult, and it will just carry you from your turret to the enemies turret and you'll die.

wait wtf are you saying??? how is the new zac ult more fun to play against/less annoying?

the new zac ult was actually designed to win a team fight if used correctly said by riot Shreive how is that fun to play against?

EcophileNov 13, 20182 votes

if used correctly

Enough said

Excellent EraNov 14, 20181 votes

The reason they changed Zac's ult is not because it was not fun to play, but because it was not to play against.

so now.. if you miss it it's not fun to play with

and if you land it. it's not fun to play against, 10x more so than the old ultimate

Enough said smh. make a point or dont

EcophileNov 15, 20181 votes

What do you mean? What is fun to play against according to you, an ability that does nothing? Usually it is about counterplay. Something feels fun when it is rewarding. Pressing R and jumping around regardless of accuracy or not has nothing rewarding here.

In a PvP environment, what creates fun is the interaction with other players, predictions, and reactions. If this is not your cup of tea and only want to have an ability without counterplay, PvE might be a better fit for you. The new Zac ult has counterplay and is extremely fun to play with and against for me. So your assumption only regards yourself, not 10x more nothing.

10x more so than the old ultimate

make a point or dont

That wasn't a point. You just stated your personal opinion and think the balance should only favor your opinion. Sorry, not how it works.

CPU LyricaNov 11, 20181 votes

someone please explain what old zac/sej stuff did please?

CaveslothNov 12, 20182 votes

If I remember correctly, Old Zac ult allowed him to bounce around 3 times slightly displacing enemies and doing some mild AOE damage.

As for old Sej, her W was circle AOE that ticked every second or so around her (spinning her flail) as opposed to the goofy 2 part skillshot that's annoying as fuck to land, and her e once she hit an enemy with a basic attack or her W (not 100% on that its been awhile might have been just the W not basic attacks or vice versa) it gave them "frost", she could activate it and slow all targets with frost but then she couldn't use on the same target(s) again for awhile, and then her ult she'd throw out her bola and if it hit a target it did an AOE stun/damage, but if she missed it'd detonate at a certain range and AOE slow/damage. Also she didn't have that passive armor/mr shield that can get cracked and leave her weak as hell, the "frost" thing for her E was her passive if remember correctly.

Which basically meant she was a CC bot without a whole lot of damage, with low skillfloor and relatively low skill ceiling as opposed to now, when she has a high skillfoor and and even higher skill ceiling. So basically they reworked her and Zac to have to too high skillfoor for most of the playerbase to use effectively, while having some much utility for pro play that they both had to be nerfed until it wasn't viable for solo que leaving their mains and fans that could deal with the higher skill floor out in the cold (pun intended).

RIP Tahm KenchNov 13, 20181 votes

Well to make things more simple:

Zac - Passive - same Q - Simple AOE slow in a line, doesn't stop at first unit W - Same AOE E - Same leap R - Knocks back enemies a short distance (about a 3rd of the distance of Alistar headbutt?), and then gains a speed boost while bouncing 4 times. Each time he lands he knocks up enemies that haven't been knocked up yet, and only does reduced damage to those hit multiple times.

Sej - Passive - All attacks and spells slow by 10% for 1 (?) second, marking them as E targets for 3 seconds Q - Same dash W - Next AA does %hp damage in a tiny AOE around the target, then deal small damage AOE around Sej for 5s E - Damages and slows enemies marked by 90% for 1-2 seconds, can't mark champions again until off CD (passive slow still works) R - Skillshot that damages and stuns in an AOE for 1 - 1.5 seconds. Can use E right after to slow all who were hit. Does nothing if it misses.