S+ for a Carry is largely biased

SnowFall·Dec 5, 2016·130 votes·5,449 views

Because... because the thing that it takes into account the most is cs. And do you know how to play like an asshole? Taking all the farm on the map even though you've already farmed your six items. I've just played like that, a lotta deaths, zero pink wards, but hey I farmed my 500+ cs, I "deserve" an S+ now (Look at those poor small raptors and golems dying and giving me +10g each but hey it's still 1 cs, right?). Nevermind that my team couldn't finish their sixth items because of me. "OMG, I've got an S+, WHOOHOO" This is a fucking joke. Seriously Rito, revise how grades are calculated for carry please.

Edit: I've had 10k gold surplus that game, the gold that could've went in my allies pocket, but hey, that wouldn't give me an S+, right?

109 Comments

bad arcade kittyDec 5, 201629 votes

the grade system is crap

not only for a farming role, for any role, to get it you should avoid dieing and to have a lot of assists and kills

win is much less important

you have a better chance to get s if you try to avoid any risk of dieing even if it can cost you the game, backing from teamfights, not risking to save your teammates and stuff

DoktorKaiserDec 5, 20162 votes

Its actually not that true. While it is true that not dying is extremely important, if you lose the game your grade goes to shit. I once played a game as Alistar, I needed that S for the box, I played like a pussy had 7 0 18 score, 150 farm and over 70 placed wards, on support and we lost because of my playstyle after 40 min (enemy team trolled around, not that I caused my team to lose, they were all heavy feeders) and I only got A. Next game I won with 4 3 10 in 20 mins and got S. God knows how the system works, but sure as hell its extremely stupid and badly done.

bad arcade kittyDec 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Its actually not that true. While it is true that not dying is extremely important, if you lose the game your grade goes to shit. I once played a game as Alistar, I needed that S for the box, I played like a pussy had 7 0 18 score, 150 farm and over 70 placed wards, on support and we lost because of my playstyle after 40 min (enemy team trolled around, not that I caused my team to lose, they were all heavy feeders) and I only got A. Next game I won with 4 3 10 in 20 mins and got S. God knows how the system works, but sure as hell its extremely stupid and badly done.

i got s in losing games, the last month it was 21/6/6 kindred loss and 9/0/0 ahri loss

7/0/18 easily can be not s worthy depending on the amount of kills overall

or maybe they punished you for taking too much farm, who knows

or maybe the taken damage matters too for tanks

the exact formula is still puzzling, like my last game i was 6/2/6 shyvana, 174 cs in 36.5 minutes as a jungler, took the most damage on both teams with the least deaths on both teams, solo took 5 (!) dragons, also we took baron, took a tower and two inhibitors, we won, i mean since my team had 39 kills i didn't think i deserved "s", but i got flipping "b" for that...

DoktorKaiserDec 5, 20161 votes

From my experience 4 things are extremely important - low number of deaths (or extreme number of kills/assists if deaths>5) , farm, winning the game and kill participation. But even with that in mind, I still sometimes get like wtf how is that B+ or how did I get S- moments.

XonraDec 6, 20161 votes

Winning doesn't matter at all. I get S from Loses all the time

DoktorKaiserDec 6, 20161 votes

Well those were probably S+ , RIOT stated that losing brings your grade down a notch unless you really fucking tried to 1v9 :D

XonraDec 6, 20161 votes

I get S in loses all the time when I play top lane .

KingnewgameplusDec 5, 201627 votes

"Hey, assassin, don't roam bot multiple times and net a lot of kills for you and your team, because that wave you missed is a lot more important than 2 kills, an assist, and a dragon. Poor choice on the 12/0 Zed , A+ for you, go fuck yourself." -Riot games.

RalanrDec 5, 20164 votes

Don't forget to ward! Lost grades because I forgot to ward. Doesn't even need to be smart warding, a random spot to ward works.

Glory ln DeathDec 5, 20166 votes

Want to get a good grade as a support? Once you get Sightstone, slap a ward or two in your fountain every time you die or back.

DepressedAhriDec 6, 20162 votes

If I have no wards up, I drop them in fountain as I run out (so it stays at 3 stacks) to pad my score am I a bad person?

WoodakoodashoodaDec 5, 201616 votes

I received 5 solid S today just for farming, staying in my own lane, killing the occasional enemy, taking farm from my jungle, warding every time my trinket came off CD, and ignoring all my allies' requests to help them.

The grading system places too much emphasis on farm.

DepressedAhriDec 6, 20161 votes

Or, maybe, you had a decent KDA as well from not taking risks and you used your wards. It wasn't just farm at play here

Final Spark LuxDec 5, 20169 votes

Can you please provide proof where riot ever said CS matters the most when it comes after game ratings? I ask because I'm fairly certain they never said this. It takes into account a lot of factors, even ones you can't technically influence, like game duration

Edit:My new record for downvotes xD

SnowFallDec 5, 201656 votes

Based on my and others long-time experience

Final Spark LuxDec 5, 201611 votes

There's an insane amount of variables that would have to be taken into account, and you have no control group. Saying based on my and others long-time experiences is equal to no proof at all. Unless you and all these other people played the same champ in the same role with the same amount of wards, kills, assists, objectives taken ect ontop of CS. It takes into account map presence, kills, assists, deaths, CS, wards, objective control, game duration, and more that I'm probably missing or unaware of, and compares it to other people playing the same role with the same champ. You could have a giant group of people try to test it, but it won't matter, because everything is constantly changing with millions of players always playing. Everything influences the grade you get

bad arcade kittyDec 5, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Final Spark Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qTYJq43H,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-05T08:27:00.257+0000)

There's an insane amount of variables that would have to be taken into account, and you have no control group. Saying based on my and others long-time experiences is equal to no proof at all. Unless you and all these other people played the same champ in the same role with the same amount of wards, kills, assists, objectives taken ect ontop of CS. It takes into account map presence, kills, assists, deaths, CS, wards, objective control, game duration, and more that I'm probably missing or unaware of, and compares it to other people playing the same role with the same champ. You could have a giant group of people try to test it, but it won't matter, because everything is constantly changing with millions of players always playing. Everything influences the grade you get

that's all a rot

kda, farm, likely kill participation %, maybe objectives

that's all

farm is extremely important

CookyPrinceDec 5, 201614 votes

Even as a support if I can get even a little farm when adc isnt in lane or from raptors late game or something I get a much higher chance of getting an S, because I can go games without dying more than a few times and lots of assists but it's just an A

PlacentasDec 5, 20166 votes

I think the biggest proof comes from examples like yours and people playing support.

MrHaZeYoDec 5, 20161 votes

Wards/Ward destroyed.

bad arcade kittyDec 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Wards/Ward destroyed.

doubt that, i had nearly identical games where the one with less wards placed got s (and another a or a-)...

the main difference was literally 0.5 minion per minute less farm

V The Support VDec 6, 20161 votes

^^^^ "You want proof? I don't have any, but it's true just because I said so".

MyrmironDec 5, 20164 votes

One of the hand full of S+'s I have ever gotten, I got on Alistar support. Just saying.

Trias000Dec 5, 20163 votes

I'm not sure I see your point...

MyrmironDec 5, 20163 votes

My point is that it was easier for me to get an S+ on support than on anything else.

Mr NoggenfoggerDec 5, 20162 votes

It's like that for a lot of people, since tank supports don't get focused, and mage sports are usually safe

AIIanDec 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

My point is that it was easier for me to get an S+ on support than on anything else.

Agree. You know the system is crap when I had to farm my mastery 7 token on Jhin by playing him support. AP.

CandoodleDec 5, 20164 votes

it does the same for calculating mastery in ARAM what kind of a douche bag is going to focus on farm in ARAM

KalarepaDec 5, 20164 votes

The dumbest thing is rank based on cs in ARAM. You can have great score, carry your team, 1v5 and.... still no S, because you let your Nasus farm some Qs.

SaiannaDec 5, 20163 votes

because the thing that it takes into account the most is cs.

I lost ALOT of S scores simply because I didn't want to be CS-stealing douche, and Iw as always buing some gold gen item. My stats were ALL BETTER than those who received an S, but only lacking CS.

CarameI FrappeDec 5, 20163 votes

If you need any proof that cs matters more than anything when it comes to getting an S, here's my proof when going as Poppy Support ....

Score: 7 / 1 / 16 Time: 33 min, 11 sec Dragons: 2 Towers: 11 **CS: ** 61 Grade: S-

Score: 5 / 1 / 17 Time: 29 min, 52 sec Dragons: 3 **Towers: ** 11 CS: 65 Grade: S+

Proof Links: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2360452509/219480029?tab=overview

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2360456658/219480029?tab=overview

Comparing them, apart from beating the game 4 minutes earlier than the previous, with an extra dragon assist ... the CS influenced my grade the hardest. Why? Despite getting 2 kills more in my previous, it didn't even grant me a solid S. I also doubt getting the extra assist in my 5 / 1 / 17 game did it either but my CS was 4 more (simply because I stole krugs from enemy jungle that game) and my grade went over a solid and into a S+ ....

Conclusion: The grading system cares more about your cs than anything else. It doesn't matter if your 1 death helped your team steal Baron or your lack of CS was to help your other laners catch up ... hell, you can go 16 / 1 / 11 as Sejuani Jungle like I did but get an A+ despite you were helping your team with ganks / scoring objectives / getting kills like a boss. Meanwhile my top laner Riven went 9 / 6 / 14 and got an S+ because her cs was above 250 .... even he thought it was odd.

Be selfish, only focus on yourself, don't risk dying in team fights for whatever reason, and farm your @$$ off even if you're a support and you'll get that well deserved but flawed S+ .... :^)

The DreamwalkerDec 5, 20162 votes

Um, that is hugely false. Supports rarely take cs yet they can be the only person the team to get an S+, S, or S-. Also, Riot said that it takes into account your role and the attributes of that role.

The main thing is NOT to loose your tower because as the "guardian" of that lane is too ensure that it stays strong (jg is an exception of course). Supports need to ensure their team gets kills and is able to leave safely (sometimes at the cost of their own life). ADC's need to be able to push lane and decimate the enemy team while not feeding. Top (same as ADC, also needs to start team fights if tanky) Mid (same as other lanes, can start team-fights)

But, you also have to help with objectives.

Top / Bot help jg with leash. Dragons / Barons / Rift heralds Towers / Inhibitors They take into account farm, items built, kills, deaths, and assists.

But, they mainly base stuff off of if you played your role correctly and efficiently. Sometimes it takes getting that right team. For me, I have a partner (Leona supp) that decimates bot lane with me (MF adc). Our partnership has already earned us 3 S's in a row (I'm S5 and he / she is unranked doing placements today).

Mainly, the more that you are helping with, the more that you will be higher graded. As for your problem, the ADC's farming ties in with their role. They need to farm, push lanes, build items and so forth. Several factors played into that, not just the farming. Someone can have poor farming but still get an S grade. I have read multiple articles and the authors agree that the top three things are:

K/D/A (Kills are weighted less than deaths)
Lane Push (Part of your role)
Teamwork (Umm, this is a team game so...)

But, if you have read this far thank you. I know that this is just an opinion, and no one needs to take this as the truth, but don't just believe that farming is the top thing in LoL.

JoseraphDec 5, 20166 votes

for a carry

Pandemic PunchDec 5, 20162 votes

But it also compares your CS to other players' CS on that same champion. So it is pretty fair unless you play something like Twitch jungle where he won't get much CS.

ShynkleDec 6, 20162 votes

But then it compares you to people who play Twitch in the jungle, so it balances out.

Pandemic PunchDec 6, 20161 votes

Good observation. However, Twitch jungle has only been picked 12% of the time on this patch while ADC Twitch has nearly been picked 80% of the time. So you would mostly be competing with the 80% in CS.

ShynkleDec 14, 20161 votes

That isn't how it works though. It only takes into account those playing him jungle. If I were to take, say Darius support, and do even decently, it would give me a high grade because /nobody/ plays Darius support. That's why people who play AD Thresh top and do well get S's, it only compares you to the sample of other people who have played in that particular role with that particular champion.

BobaFlautistDec 5, 20162 votes

I don't understand why they don't just freeze your kills and cs's contribution (and maybe increase the assist contribution) to your champion score when you hit 6 full items, so if you get super ahead and then feed kills and farms to your allies you still get credit for getting super ahead in the first place.

It seems like such an easy fix.

MonkeyMadnessDec 5, 20162 votes

because the thing that it takes into account the most is cs.

If this were true, it would preclude that supports couldn't possibly get S ratings. I actually find the opposite to be true: I believe that I have a higher percent of S rated games as support than I do on other roles (and my main is jungle, so it's not like I play a shitload of sup and am hugely experienced on it).

OyddAWqJ5rDec 5, 20162 votes

It is true. Rankings are based off of other player's performances with them. So if the average cs of support Sona's is 5 cs a game then if you get more than 5 cs you are increasing your ranking.

By how much I have no clue. But yes you can CS the hell out of a game as a support and get a higher ranking for it.

I don't know if these are all the factors but the main factors are:

Kills
Deaths
Assists
CS

And yes the CS one does include supports.

MonkeyMadnessDec 6, 20161 votes

But do you know which category has the highest impact and you didn't even list? Winning the game. It is virtually impossible to get S- or better after a loss (I've only done it a handful of times in hundreds of games). If you play for these stats, your chance of getting S rank goes down. Play the game to win, and you might get an S. Play to get the S, and you almost certainly will not succeed.

OyddAWqJ5rDec 6, 20162 votes

I... get S's after like every game on my mains--including losses :o

The only reason your rank goes down is because you most likely had more deaths than normal in a losing game as opposed to a winning game.

However if you end the game with 1 or 2 deaths and otherwise a normal score you can still easily obtain an S. Just pick your fights wisely and don't die for nuffin.

So actually the opposite of what you said is true. Play to get an S and you will most likely get an S since your score will be optimized for it. Play to win and you have less of a chance since playing to win involves possible self-sacrifice for the victory.

MonkeyMadnessDec 6, 20161 votes

I... get S's after like every game on my mains--including losses :o

Then you play uncommon champs. If you played hecarim this summer, you would know just how fkin impossible it was to get S or better meta champs. I had a string of wins where I went 10/1 or so on average with varying numbers of assists and sometimes didn't even get the S-. Hell, a few times I've gone 10/0 for A-, which is retarded. It depends on how many people are playing the champ. Meta champs get spammed, so it's harder to get high ratings on them. However, winning the game is a HUGE factor, also because winning the game generally creates a situation where you have a higher KDA and better CS.

OyddAWqJ5rDec 7, 20161 votes

The reason it's harder on champions who generally outperform others is because they overperform. So performing an average "good" score means nothing if the average score for that champion is something ridiculous.

Also! Alot of the time it means you have to be good at CS'ing. So many ADC's perform really well objectively but don't get a high CS score and therefore do not rate the S.

CS matters. And also it ain't about winning. Winning just usually means you and your allies did better than worse. But if you won via making proper decisions such as possibly tanking something to the death to allow another ally to go on a rampage as long as possible in teamfights then you have less of a chance for an S even if you got assists from those deaths and won the game. If you didn't even get many assists or any from those deaths then you most likely won't even get an S. And by being dead you don't participate in getting the objective afterward which typically means an even lower score.

However, if you were to make it your main objective to score S you can not prioritize on victory and instead prioritize on not dying, CS, objectives, kills and assists in that order.

For example: You just aced the enemy except for a Caitlyn and your team is doing baron but it's only you, your tank jungler and your ADC who is low enough for a free ult kill but so are you. Cait ults, targeting your ADC but your team needs him alive in order to DPS baron since your jg is a tank and the jg is too far away from the ADC.

Do you take the bullet for the increased chance of victory? Or let him eat it so you don't have to take a death and a non-participation in a huge objective (baron) which would result in a possible non-S rank?

See? There are definitely cases where you can choose S over victory. Idk why you ever would but most of the time it ends up being choosing victory over S.

XonraDec 6, 20161 votes

Except you are wrong. I get S all the time in loses. Got my S+ for mastery 7 on Rumble in a loss.

MonkeyMadnessDec 6, 20161 votes

Then you are playing a champ that is rarely played at your level (rumble would likely satisfy that condition). I play a lot of hecarim, and despite regularly going 10/0 in ranked games, I've gotten only a handful of S games this season on him.

DepressedAhriDec 6, 20162 votes

Warding and Objective participation are just as important as the 4 you mentioned. People don't think it is, but that's because both are second nature. Or should be.

OyddAWqJ5rDec 6, 20161 votes

Oh yeah duh forgot the objective one.

And I'm pretty sure warding counts but idk how much so. Seems like so long as you use all your trinket charges without sitting on max too long (and sighstone charges) you're fine.