Does anyone here literally enjoy playing malzahar or against him?

Sujiren·Aug 12, 2017·69 votes·4,440 views

Literally his gameplay is pretty much push push push, make some voidlings so they can push aswell, and r who ever jumps you. I am not posting this because I am mad, just think that he is one of the most boring champions in the game, with terrible design, that involves no interacton what so ever. There is literally no difference between one trick malzahar and a newbie malzahar besides, the overall game knowledge, because they all do the same thing.

139 Comments

SalsonAug 12, 201720 votes

Well Rito 'tried' to make him better, but they did no adress the elephant in the room.

Why does he still have a point and click suppression. They removed it from Warwick because it was unhealthy and took too much of his power budget.

Eternal TormentAug 12, 20172 votes

he still has his surpression...but it is aimed now instead of point and click

Velzard of KozAug 12, 20173 votes

Which is exactly his point. Read it again.

Eternal TormentAug 12, 20173 votes

oh, i misread it due to the bad wording. my error XD

NyarlathοtepAug 12, 201721 votes

You do know that we need some point and click to deal with the mobility right? Or at the very least until right implements more anti mobility skills like poppy's

SalsonAug 12, 201720 votes

Oh, I love the Grounded mechanic, more champs should have it.

A control mage that denies mobility is a good concept. A burst mage that annihilates opponents is a good concept. A combination of both, with the added bonus of no counter play, is not.

NyarlathοtepAug 12, 201722 votes

The thing with ground effect is that it screws over immobile champs more than mobiles since the only two ground effects have also and a slow. Thats why i said poppy's anti mobility skill and not ground.

SalsonAug 12, 20172 votes

Oh yeah, didn't see Poppy in ages.

Would some sort of Lissandra W, that only works on dashing stuff work?

deadlychuckAug 12, 20174 votes

Well that's more a problem with what skills they attached the CC.

If you attached it to something like malzahar's null zone or say something bigger like Mao ult. Then you wouldn't be punishing the immobile champions.

I think this is probably one of riot's biggest blind spots, the inability, or unwillingness, to implement mechanics which disproportionately punish mobile champions more than immobile champions.

PennsAug 12, 20175 votes

Mobility creep on god champs that are almost always strong like Jhin Syndra Orianna hehe

SalsonAug 12, 201710 votes

How does one make a rational opinion, then ends up sounding like a troll by adding 'hehe'? It's almost amazing...almost.

5000000000000000Aug 13, 20172 votes

How does one make a rational opinion, then ends up sounding like a troll by adding 'hehe'? It's almost amazing...almost. hehe

deadlychuckAug 12, 20172 votes

Yeah, but remember they also gave him an AoE fear to compensate. The last thing that malzahar needs is a short CD hard CC which he can chain into his ult.

SalsonAug 12, 20173 votes

Um, Warwick rework was a pure success, he is no longer a braindead ultbot. Which Malzahar is.

deadlychuckAug 12, 20172 votes

I never said that it wasn't, but you're not considering the relative changes.

The same kind of changes which went onto WW would've been been obnoxious on malzahar. Say that you made it so that if a target is silenced by Q and E active on them, then they get a 40-60% slow. But they made his ult a skillshot into a suppression. Now you've just given him more capacity to lock down players without having to utilize his ult, but really not made it any harder for him to land the ult.

That said, i think they could've kept the targeted suppression, they just needed to stretch out his E damage. Increase the duration, and give it a refresh with Q. Keep the voidlings out of the AP kit and don't give the fucker a spell shield.

ABlueQuakerAug 12, 201711 votes

They actually removed it because it was a point-and-click blink/suppression/on-hit applicator. The big different between Malz and WW is that Malz is a squishy, low-mobility kite/control mage who has to simultaneously root himself to use his Suppress.

I'm actually quite content with Malzahar - he was one of Riot's first attempts at a kite/control mage and he has his niche in the meta.

SalsonAug 12, 20175 votes

He was fair for it's time, as were Volibear XinZhao Warwick Nunu Mordekaiser .

Times change.

Jinzo TorranceAug 12, 201713 votes

I main Malzahar and I like him, I also love when opponents says "R unskilled champ".

SweedishGunnerAug 12, 20175 votes

That's the best, when some cocky Fizz just jumps in trying to 1 shot the ADC. You press R and 'nope'.

cocacolalipsAug 12, 201712 votes

No, the best is when that cocky tank/bruiser/mage/marksman/support/assassin/duelist tries to play the game and you press R and 'nope' as you walk away from your computer to make coffee while they suffer a horrible death.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 13, 20174 votes

The best is to main GP and directly give you a big fucking finger in champselect if you picked malz.

ArakadiaAug 13, 20172 votes

Thats a counterpick however, not counterplay.

Pierce The VealAug 12, 201710 votes

{quoted}

Literally his gameplay is pretty much push push push, make some voidlings so they can push aswell, and r who ever jumps you. I am not posting this because I am mad, just think that he is one of the most boring champions in the game, with terrible design, that involves no interacton what so ever. There is literally no difference between one trick malzahar and a newbie malzahar besides, the overall game knowledge, because they all do the same thing.

Playing against him is aids.

MelledoneusAug 12, 20179 votes

Malzahar is a fun champiom for me. He can create lane pressure from level 2 and you can refresh the E duration by forcing your opponent to move into a narrow space and Q'ing them. He is not very mechanics-heavy but he does have rewarding moments like melting anybody that gets near you once you hit 5 items.

I would enjoy it, though, if his voidlings were faster. They're almost useless in trades early on unless your opponent is literally walking after you.

Dream HighAug 12, 20176 votes

Don't forget his advanced combo flash + R, which is impossible to miss.

NyarlathοtepAug 12, 20172 votes

He isnt the only one that can do it. Many champs with point and click abilities can do it.

LiteUpSketchersAug 12, 20175 votes

Careful, you'll wake up the Cho'Gath mains

imVashAug 12, 20176 votes

The same can be said for Heimerdinger.

Sun Wu RyuumokuAug 12, 20175 votes

I hate play against him... his lv6 is so retarded, the only counterplay is item 3140 . I really hate when hard cc are a f*cking point and clic.

Laxfan52Aug 12, 20173 votes

Personally, i feel like they should change his ult and his passive.

deadlychuckAug 12, 20176 votes

Yeah his passive should be to spawn a stronger voidling every couple of cast instead of multiple shitty weak voidlings, and his ult should just be the targeted flat damage, then separate his pool % damage to his W (now that the voidlings on on his passive).

Sounds like a great plan, let's get on this rework riot!

Laxfan52Aug 14, 20171 votes

I was thinking like not having a point and click suppression

ParoeAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I was thinking like not having a point and click suppression

Why? Hes an anti assassin; His niche is to assassinate people who all-in him. Removing his suppression (which is a self CC mind you) would mean that you need to considerably buff the rest of his kit.
Might as well make syndras ult a skillshot too.

NyarlathοtepAug 12, 20173 votes

There is literally no difference between one trick malzahar and a newbie malzahar besides, the overall game knowledge, because they all do the same thing

Thats more or less the same with every champion that its not mechanically challenging ( i mean the likes of annie , garen etc)

Edit I forgot to add something

Literally his gameplay is pretty much push push push

Thats what most mages with waveclear do most of the times.

Edit: i did a mistake i wanted to say annie and garen

ShahamutAug 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thats more or less the same with every champion that its not mechanically challenging ( i mean the likes of yasuo, riven etc)

Edit I forgot to add something

Thats what most mages with waveclear do most of the times.

Ummm... Yasuo and Riven are your examples of non-mechanically challenging champions???????

NyarlathοtepAug 13, 2017

Ye my bad i wanted to say annie garen

ShahamutAug 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ye my bad i wanted to say annie garen

Ok. I was worried for a sec :-P

hhaavviikkAug 12, 20172 votes

maybe if his W could be used for something besides minion pushing, you summon them in a team fight and they die in half a second as everything 1 shots them.

he's fun in ARAM and rotating game modes where you don't have to even level his stupid W, in those game modes I do like playing him

Eternal TormentAug 12, 20172 votes

well, malzahar has been clearly a balancing nightmare, seeing that they had to rework him then 50/50 revert the rework because no form of malzahar seemed to be either balanced or interesting. so they picked balanced over interesting because thats what people complained about a lot more.

my point being is, him being so unsatisfying to pull off is a necessary evil to Keep him somewhat in check. at least thats my opinion on the case. who knows, i might be wrong.

deadlychuckAug 12, 20174 votes

Well the problem is that they're the ones that made him a balancing nightmare, with the rework!

He hadn't caused any problems for fucking YEARS. All of the hype around people wanting him reworked only appeared after they themselves claimed that he was a problem that needed to be fixed and one of the targets of the MYMU. Which might I remind you has basically had half of the changes to the major reworks reverted.

They established his design as a problem, people jumped on the bandwagon, the molehill became a mountain and then their attempt to address this virtually non-existent "problem" was which they had no clear direction.

OP Garen SupportAug 12, 20172 votes

Exactly noone knew he existed, suddenly everyone an expert of crying in boards demanding balance which led to a trend(hence this post) to bitch about him when in reality he is miles weaker then he was .

deadlychuckAug 12, 20172 votes

He really isn't though...

They added an extra source of AP scaling and a spell shield. Traded base damage for CDs (resulting in basically the same net damage)

All he really lost in respect to scaling was his 2.5% per 100 AP on his null zone and 10% scaling on his flat damage of his ult. But he gained 20% per voidling.

He gained numerical power and gained mechanical power, as the only thing that he lost mechanically was some of his duration per Q cast, but the CD being reduced to 6 from 9 seconds compensates for the now 2 second silence being reduced from 3.

I can't stress this enough, the only things that the net rework accomplished was to add his voidlings to the AP kit, effectively delete AD malzahar, and give him a spell shield. As far as the AP play style of malzahar is concerned, he's substantially more powerful than he use to be, and the player input was actually simplified (which is impressive because that was one of the talking points).

Edit: I guess I should point out that the old win rate of ~52% was likely a result of the ~4% of people who played him for years. Where as the current 53% win rate with about 8% pick rate, is indicative of an easy to play champion. After all, many of the former players stopped playing him after the rework and many of the current players (which I guess would be 6% of players) don't have the same degree of experience on the champion.

Voluug13Aug 12, 20172 votes

He is absolutely weaker, his burst is comparatively lower, horribly conditional and his overall power went down to make place for an uneeded, badly planned passive shield that does nothing but lower his skillfloor.

The reason why he is OP or complete garbage is because they tried to remove his glaring weaknesses to make him some kind of generalist except that it completly failed because he was horribly overtuned on the rework, while losing his niche entirely.

His playstyle also became even worse on laning, because they literally reduced the cost of the voidlings to 1/10 their original mana cost instead of being gated by high mana cost charges. He basically lost a shitload of burst (aka the thing he NEEDS to be an anti-assassin pick) for pushing potential and low skill passive. HIs rework accomplished nothing but making him a weaker anti-assassin.

OP Garen SupportAug 12, 20172 votes

His burst go delayed. His E deals half the damage 'but he can reapply it' no, he was not given a tool to reach his enemies only brainded morons die to your combo close range. Life steal can outheal his damage.

I would pick old Malzahar any day compared to the shit 1 we got now.

Old Malzahar : stronger Q W % damage vs tanks other then that useless passive minion per 4 cast that can be controlled and could tank 4 tower shots E dealt at least double damage R had huge Ap scaling

New Malzahar shield passive super strong but not worth it for the damage nerf he received Q weaker W minion spawner good for blocking skill shots and blocking melee path from reaching you. Minions got ap scaling sure but they are dumb as rock and die to anything in 1 hit nor can you control them with basic attack anymore. E deals half damage 'but he can reapply it' no, he was not given a tool to reach his enemies only brainded morons die to your combo close range. Life steal can outheal his damage any day. He got the same treatment as other assassins 'delayed burst' basically you dont do your job properly anymore. R less damage less scaling

item 1056 passive was changed leading to huge nerf for Malzahar early game. If you spam your E and W you run out very fast.

I mained him for 2 years before the MYMU screwing him. I really liked him because he was the cancer counter. (adc, assassins). Many people point out that there is no counterplay to his E and R well where is the counter play in ranged basic attacks? Or invisibility after pink wards were removed? Vayne Evelynn

At least 30 other champion deserved it more to get hard nerfed instead of Malzahar. He got gutted for 1 year because Riot favors AD over AP any day. There are champion that are toxic to lane againt. is 1 of them I can accept that but so are these champions: Ahri Anivia Caitlyn Darius Draven Ekko Fiora Fizz Gangplank Gnar Heimerdinger Illaoi Irelia Jayce Kennen Lux Pantheon Poppy Quinn Riven Syndra Soraka Taliyah Teemo Tryndamere Vayne Yasuo TahmKench

Taliyah is probably annoying only for me because she spams her Q

I dont see them being gutted though just because people bitch about them

SweedishGunnerAug 12, 20172 votes

I enjoy playing as him and don't mind playing against him either.

His infinite pushing comes from Lost Chapter, he will run bone dry on mana if he spams spells early.

Also a shit tonne of other mages push as well or better than him.

PoskeAug 13, 20172 votes

Well maybe if we could micro voidlings...

BUT NO RITO SAYS NO

JaxMoonStealerAug 13, 20172 votes

Literally literally literally literally :p

Serika ZeroAug 13, 20172 votes

I used to like playing pre rework malzahar. Then he got reworked and i stopped playing him all together but some people love his rework. And now is what it is