The most frustrating thing is how the brittle mark lasts entire 6s duration. If he buys slightest bit of cdr, you basically have no windows to ever trade with him, because by the time brittle mark wears off, his w is up again. I really don't think the mark should last that long...
Ben Sharpio40 votesI'm basically repeating what i always say but:
Riot didn't identify what was wrong with him after his release
Overview of Ornn on release:
Good/Decent laning phase -------------------> extremely hard to do anything outside of laning phase
Riot not only buffed something he needed to keep him in line during the laning phase (mana costs), but they also buffed his ult, and w.
So now you have a champion that crowds out a lot of the other options in top lane. Because he doesn't have a clear weakpoint in the game anymore.
Revert his mana cost buffs, see how Ornn players do without being able to spam rotations and go from there.
FireDrizzle22 votesI would prefer his cooldowns were increased rather than mana costs lowered. Not needing to back to buy items is pretty useless if you are forced to back for mana constantly.
If ornn uses an ability or even 2 it gives no window to move against him because everything he has a cast time anyway and his cooldowns are so low.
Chembaron Yamada18 votesThat's the whole point why he initially had higher mana costs. He is a tank with the ability to buy items in lane. There was a need to give him some reason to leave the lane occasionally and not just sitting at top lane til minute 20.
ManWithNoBeard20 votesOrnn is the safest top laner and also... the most oppressive top laner. When peope say he is UP, i cringe.
Zero Skill Tank7 votesHis laning phase is very strong, but overall he can't do much after first few levels. Depending on source, his winrate is 50.9 or 51.5, which is far from OP for a tank in solo queue.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votesHis laning phase is very strong, but overall he can't do much after first few levels.
What's this non sense ?!!!
Zero Skill Tank4 votesWell that's the truth. His teamfighting is pretty bad for a tank, and with a bit of MR and lifesteal pretty much every fighter can outduel him.
In your like 20 last games I see literally no single LS item stonger than D Blade, and just a bit of MR, so you might think that Ornn is BS all game long, but he really isn't.
Revali8 votesThe only change Ornn needs as someone who picked him up, was really just change his max health back to current, the rest isn't a big issue as he'll start losing extended trades. instead of favoring both short and extended.
NefariousQuack1 votesThe only change Ornn needs as someone who picked him up, was really just change his max health back to current, the rest isn't a big issue as he'll start losing extended trades. instead of favoring both short and extended.
no, his brittle empowered auto is disgusting and makes it impossible to trade against him, it just does so much damage that going for the extended trade is akin to inting because you get so low after the start of the trade.
Iota Theta1 votesno, his brittle empowered auto is disgusting and makes it impossible to trade against him, it just does so much damage that going for the extended trade is akin to inting because you get so low after the start of the trade.
His Brittle empowered auto was always there and was never a problem before. His power jumped after the buff to the % damage from the actual fire breath.
Even now, at level 9, you still have over half health from one trade. It takes time for him to really kill you.
You can however still avoid taking the full damage by getting out of the breath, as it’s spread over the 5 ticks (max rank is 4% per tick).
Best option right now? Freeze lane near your tower. His W is also his best waveclear and if he’s hitting the minions as well, it’ll push to your tower. Close enough and when he tries to harass and farm he can take shots from the tower.
Mihalikb5 votesOrnn is the most abusive toplane counter pick ever. Worse than Cho. It's almost impossible to push out of lane, especially if your jungler is another melee, in which case diving him just means feeding him. And he is oppressive and abusive in team fights.
But yeah, Ornn is just one of the many broken shits in this pre-season.
Gubaguy5 votesspekaing of marks that last way too long... Tahm has also become a very dominate toplaner. I think the issue is they keep forcing out tanks that deal max health damage that scale with health, making them even more broken they they already were.
THE RlVER KlNG1 votestahm is ass what are you talking about
Gubaguy1 votes[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kHMZ7UAW,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-11-26T06:05:36.490+0000)
tahm is ass what are you talking about
Im talking about his permaslowwing Q, mixed with his W that guts you for around 50% of your max health that is uncounterable, and its only drawback is now countered by phase rush, which stops the slow from happening and gives him a speed BOOST instead, allowing tahm to drag you under his tower, or into a teamfight, or minion wave, at which time her can continue to permaslow you, all while building only HP, and maybe 1 armour/MR item and becomes an unstoppable god, all becuase of phase rush and his passive HP scaling damage.
THE RlVER KlNG1 votestahm can't permaslow even with 45% cdr unless he buys mallet, which is something anyone who autos can do
w deals 32% max hp damage at rank 5, not 50% lol
phase rush isn't ideal and doesn't completely negate the slow of your w, it reduces it to about 10-20%.
tahm has no way to trade within a minion wave. his w is waaaay more counterable than ornn w because you need three stacks and the cooldown is long and eats up tahm's mana, unlike ornn who can use it regularly and cheaply.
tahm falls off like a cliff and his damage stagnates around level 13. he can bully until 6 but his lack of a combat ultimate means most other top laners can duel him pretty easily unless he's already ahead
Gubaguy1 votes[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kHMZ7UAW,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-26T20:46:25.278+0000)
tahm can't permaslow even with 45% cdr unless he buys mallet, which is something anyone who autos can do
w deals 32% max hp damage at rank 5, not 50% lol
phase rush isn't ideal and doesn't completely negate the slow of your w, it reduces it to about 10-20%.
tahm has no way to trade within a minion wave. his w is waaaay more counterable than ornn w because you need three stacks and the cooldown is long and eats up tahm's mana, unlike ornn who can use it regularly and cheaply.
tahm falls off like a cliff and his damage stagnates around level 13. he can bully until 6 but his lack of a combat ultimate means most other top laners can duel him pretty easily unless he's already ahead
You arent factoring in the max health damage from his passive, which scales up to 1.75%, on every hit, as bonus damage, both with abilities and autos on a champion that also uses health as a shield. Ive played multiple games agasint tahms, in one i was a darius he charged at me level 2, i managed ot get a full 5 stacks on him but wasnt outputting enough damage and he picked me up, ran me to his tower and dumped me there to die.
Miku Append5 votesAt this point, I have more fun laning against ranged champions in top, as well as the cancer himself 
than I do 
.
The Space Cowboy2 votesWouldn't it be nice if 
blocked extra damage from ranged or something to make ranged niche for top? I really think a little range up there spices things up, however I have a slough of champs I can't blindpick until I know my enemy is melee.
rtbf761092713 votesIf it did more against ranged we would see it bot lane for sure
Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votesMelee only?
rtbf761092711 votesthat is just a super roundabout way to make it so melee champions in effect have more hp/armor.. it's preseason it would make more sense just to adjust champions actual armor and hp values than to make a long list of rules on an item
kargish4 votesAs a juggernaut he should be extremely difficult to fight head on, especially as a melee character. Personally I think he's fine as he is, except that his W carries a little too much power. It makes him cc immune, shields him, deals damage and applies brittle. Even though he can't change direction, and he's really dependant on landing the brittle effect, it still carries too much power.
YumaS2Astral23 votesAs a juggernaut he should be extremely difficult to fight head on, especially as a melee character. Personally I think he's fine as he is, except that his W carries a little too much power. It makes him cc immune, shields him, deals damage and applies brittle. Even though he can't change direction, and he's really dependant on landing the brittle effect, it still carries too much power.
The thing is that Ornn isn't a juggernaut, he is a tank
PhearBunny4 votesi niche pick Nocturne top into Ornn. Why? Because i can just rush a Tiamats, 1shot the whole entire wave, and completely avoid any interaction with Ornn unless my jungler is present.
Its safe, gets 100% farm, and Noct is actually really strong this season too. So.
Jar Jar binks l2 votesYorick beats ornn and he is melee
JPLangley5 votes[deleted]
Colton1473 votesExcept he doesn't. Ornn counters Yorick's all-in by simply smashing his head into the wall and escaping. He can also tank the mist walker's initial impact with his W shield. Ornn also starts facetanking everything Yorick throws at him with ease and then proceeds to kill him post-laning phase.
It can go both ways honestly.
is able to deal with Ornn fairly easy post-6.
pro rusher 22 votesHow to counter ornn? Don't fight him untill you outscale him. He is stronger than teemo in early, but with weaker mid-late game than nunu. This is also why his win rate is so low right now.
Mimr2 votes[{quoted}](name=pro rusher 2,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kHMZ7UAW,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2017-11-25T07:25:19.391+0000)
How to counter ornn? Don't fight him untill you outscale him. He is stronger than teemo in early, but with weaker mid-late game than nunu. This is also why his win rate is so low right now.
Low? It's 51.3% right now.
bubbi2 votesnow that fervor is removed bruisers are having an awful time fighting against tanks.
Zed genius2 votesI feel like there is almost no counterplay to Ornn in lane, if your playing a melee.
EternalShock1 votesIts him and akali bro.
Cancerous laning phases with zero counterpoay mostly because of their marks
Brittle mark and Akalis q mark lasts way too long and by the time it’s over another one is up already to zone u off another wave
Serika Zero1 votesriiiiiiiiiiiiiight, zero counterplay
meanwhile: 
and 
top gives you a lot of conterplay
yes, i'm salty as an akali main that you called akali no counterplay when in top lane, someone called spartan baker exist
EternalShock1 votesI’m not excusing pantheon whatsoever
Akali is just as brain dead broken but also scales mid game and can’t be ganked as easily
Serika Zero1 votesdepends who you are playing as.
can reveal akali
reveals akali
reveals akali
can spot akali
can reveal akali
can spot akali with his lightining
reveals akali if she lands E
and she also has to use her W agressively in lane if she wants to win trades, which means you simply have to wait a few seconds for her to use it and gank afterwards. she is annoying, I'll give you that. But she's not brain dead. You must carefully make your mind about when going for trades or not. You are also an all in champion, once you got in, you have no way to get out, her W covers to little distance to get you out of trouble if things start turning bad.
She scales into mid game because that's what she is, an early and mid game hero. She starts falling off hard in late game and team fights are difficult on akali unless you are quite fed. And even when fed, things go bad if your team doesn't fight together with you.
At least you can farm against akali, at least till lv6 quite easily (as long as you respect her and don't get Q proced to many times by her using W aggressively). I suggest you try to lane vs Phateon, Kennen, Vlad, Gnar or Ryze as a melee champion. IF the other guy knows what they are doing you will start crying. No, not from lv6+. You will do that from lv1 or 2...
EternalShock1 votesFarm against akali LOLLLL
You’re just that ignorant and in denial u won’t admit akali shits on melees completely .
U can’t farm when she has her q up every 6 seconds with a q proc mark that lasts just as long preventing u from csing at all
Her q aa is about 100-150 damage level 2-3
Serika Zero1 votesshe has to use her W agressively to win trades vs both melee and ranged using W agressively = you can get ganked and you die very fast
yes, you can farm safely against akali if you respect her damage output even as melee pre 6. post 6 is gets difficult because she can jump on you from a higher range and still have an outplay tool in her kit available (w) in case of problems.
you are delusional by the looks of it. i suggest you try and play akali top or mid for 20 games and then come back bragging about how well it went or more likely: how you stomped a few match-ups and how you got shitted on in the other majority of the match ups
EternalShock1 votesAHHHHHHHHHHHGGGG
“U can farm safely against akali”
AHHHHHHHHHH
“Akali has to w Aggro to win trades”
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
JustSaiyan691 votesHonestly Akali's pretty brain dead and uncounterable post 6 and hex tech gunblade.
She has to actively fuck up for you to do anything to her.
Serika Zero1 votesagree, post 6 and gunblade, akali is very strong until you get to late game and team fights so: akali ok pre 6 akali braindead post gunblade akali very difficult and very intellectually challenging in team fights (4v4 or 5v5)
you can still deal with her post6 and gunblade if you play her counters. But if you do not, unless you got feed in the early game, you got to accept that she's almost a goddess in the mid game. And just avoid fighting her until you get 2-3 more items.
holystack1 votesFarm against akali LOLLLL
You’re just that ignorant and in denial u won’t admit akali shits on melees completely .
U can’t farm when she has her q up every 6 seconds with a q proc mark that lasts just as long preventing u from csing at all
Her q aa is about 100-150 damage level 2-3
When playing a melee champ, that's actually the only thing I find insanely tilting about Akali. The mark debuff last as long as the CD itself. There's simply no window to CS safely or whatever.
no idea for nick1 votes
bye
Asudurga2 votesAh, good times where the E stayed on you until you destroyed 3 tentacles. And your damn allies would last hit them which keeps you stuck in that E.
Out of all her abilities, her E is what I'm glad got gutted the most.
Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votesHer E is the ONLY ability that has ever gotten gutted.
Her Q, W and Ult have only been solely buffed since.
Asudurga1 votesI never said her other abilities got nerfed, just her E which is the only ability that deserved to be gutted.
Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votesfair
Namitu1 votesyeah for some reason the retards working at riot decided they should buff in patch 7.23 even though he was already oppressive as fuck. even if youre fucking ranged you cant win he throws a q then hits e then throws his w you already lost half your hp. do something @Riot Meddler you frog
Iota Theta1 votesyeah for some reason the retards working at riot decided they should buff
His 7.23 buff was literally 10 damage on E, at all ranks, to make up for what he lost from old runes.
just out tanks and eventually out-damages.