Tanks aren't allowed to be viable in their own god damn lane.

PopcornBunni·Mar 30, 2019·48 votes·15,499 views

https://i.imgur.com/er5BW9h.png[]

This isn't even listing the tanks that were completely booted from the lane to pick up the scraps of farm an ADC lets them get with

But I'm sure this is all perfectly fine because fuck the "tankmeta" that included a grand total of three viable tanks in top ( ) and three in the jungle ( ).

Just imagine if out of 50 midlaners, every single mage among them fell below the half-way mark.

Or imagine a botlane where the top ten picks were and three ADCs like were forced out to play support or go top to bully melees.

It's miserable enough playing a class that has such little agency of their own and which relies so heavily on a coordinated and cooperative team behind them to followup their CC, but to be at a point where not a single one can manage a 50% WR in the single position they are allowed to fight 1-on-1 or play for the long game is beyond suffering.

87 Comments

PolarEclipseMar 30, 20196 votes

I didn't know there was a lane in this game that said "Tanks only"

Jokes aside, its a bit sad that tanks are pretty much dead in the solo q part of league, but they are still decent in organized play.

I wish I had a suggestion on how to buff/fix them but Sadly I don't. It really feels like they are either, 1, underwhelming, and nobody plays them because of that, or 2, they are strong and tanks are everywhere.

Very rarely have I ever felt that tanks are just in an all around "solid" place, they either tickle you to death or you sneeze at them and they vanish.

I personally have always felt that unless tanks are strong you are always better off playing literally anything else, at least in solo q.

PopcornBunniMar 31, 20191 votes

Lower base damage and better scaling would be a decent way to make them choose between being tanky cc bots and wannabe divers, just, not stuff like Amumu Gragas where building damage increases their damage reduction, or the inverse like Ornn 's spells scaling with AR and MR.

Better scaling, especially on the AD-scaling tanks, would also incentivize them to build the stat that lets them cs and auto trade better.

The only real issue is that there isn't much in the way of AD/AR items. AD/HP is everywhere item 3053 item 3071 item 3748 item 3078 item 3161 , and AD/MR has a decent selection between item 3156 item 3139 , but AD/AR only has item 3026

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20195 votes

Maokai Chogath are viable And that's all of the tanks in the game Support has Alistar Leona Braum and 2 of them are meta picks for many seasons

PopcornBunniMar 30, 201929 votes

Neither are doing well at all and Cho is a juggernaut, not a tank.

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Neither are doing well at all and Cho is a juggernaut, not a tank.

Sion was meta for most of Season 7 and 8 and a strong pick in season 9 Poppy was really a strong pick especially that she counters Dashes when season 8 was filled with assassins Malphite Viable Maokai is a great pick , who left? Those 3 you mentioned are good picks I still play Maokai and do well tho

PopcornBunniMar 30, 201936 votes

Poppy Sion Shen Ornn Maokai Malphite

None even scratching a 50% WR dispite being played pretty much exclusively by one tricks

Galio Nautilus TahmKench

Kicked out of the lane entirely

And I play can play Assassin Poppy with item 3078 item 3147 item 3142 item 3156 item 3026 and do well too. Irrelevant.

Meteora707Mar 30, 201910 votes

if tahm was meta top no other tanks would be played top lmao

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20194 votes

{quoted}

None even scratching a 50% WR dispite being played pretty much exclusively by one tricks

Kicked out of the lane entirely

And I play can play Assassin Poppy with and do well too. Irrelevant.

Sion Was meta for seasons and you all wanted him to get Gutted Poppy was a strong pick thought , but Kayle rework came in Shen no one likes dealing with him whenever he is viable , he has to be always pick or ban in pro play , and in solo Q he just saves his Ult for bot lane and that's it Ornn we really don't want the days when Ornn was a viable pick Maokai is Viable. Malphite he just needs a rework overall since he is useless without his Ult , but pretty strong when his Ult is up.

Galio was overnerfed, not a Tank issue TahmKench was overnerfed as well Nautilus Idk about him

And I play can play Assassin Poppy with " assassin items " and do well too. Irrelevant.

good for you

Tanks are always meta whenever they become what you want , you are basically asking for Tank meta.

RagnaveilMar 30, 20194 votes

If Mao was viable, then I would be spam playing him. Take a look at what im playing, then still try to tell me that he's "viable".

Meteora707Mar 31, 20191 votes

what he was trying to say is that maokai is viable in gold-

RagnaveilMar 31, 20191 votes

Okay, that still doesn't mean he's any good. Anyone with a decent enough brain would abuse that pick from minute one and make the person playing maokai live in a personal hell all game.

Exin0Apr 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If Mao was viable, then I would be spam playing him. Take a look at what im playing, then still try to tell me that he's "viable".

he is viable in sense you are free to pick him and if stars align and your oponent is afk you can play with minions until jungler come to visit.

RagnaveilApr 1, 20191 votes

Right, and how likely will that happen in Dia+? Little to no possibility.

Critmaster GarenMar 30, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Neither are doing well at all and Cho is a juggernaut, not a tank.

i disagree.

hes a tank with juggernaut base damage. he clearly has way too much cc and aoe disruption to count as a jugger.

i dont mind tanks in the top lane being viable by the way, even if we get "stonewalled" from snowballing on our fighters. but i hate how insanely overpowered marksmen become when tanks are played, since they get walled off from any possible aggression by supports and tanks.

Lulu + a tank infront of a marskman basically means he becomes untouchable. until they fix this, and make supports and tanks more agnostic towards different types of carries that they could enable (meaning being able to help divers and juggers to get past enemy peel, just as much as theyre able to peel for marksmen), or basically nerf marksmen out of the game, were stuck in this current state.

Haze97Mar 30, 20192 votes

Then what the fuck is your assassin doing?

When the support and tank is busy keeping you from reaching the backline what prevents your Zed from running around and pressing that R? There's a reason assassin's exist and it isn't just to make flashy plays.

Critmaster GarenMar 30, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Then what the fuck is your assassin doing?

When the support and tank is busy keeping you from reaching the backline what prevents your Zed from running around and pressing that R? There's a reason assassin's exist and it isn't just to make flashy plays.

getting locked down by the tank, then polymorphed and dies while trying to get through phantom dancer, bloodthirster shields, summoner heal, guardian angel, lulus shield and her ult.

like the amount of safety nets marksmen already have these days on their own is actually insane. why do you think assassins deal so much burst damage? because they already have to be able to kill them on occation through multiple contingencies. if you add tanks to the supports, forget ever trying to fight them.

i mean weve already seen this meta. its literally just marksman vs. marksman and a bunch of supports.

3TWarriorMar 31, 20191 votes

actually, juggernauts are champions with : high damage, conditional gameplay, high durability, little to no mobility

Chogath does have crowd control, but it is tied to an easily avoidable delayed skill-shot. The primary gameplay for his opponents consists of baiting his abilties and then focusing him if there is not a more pressing threat

he also has no defensive means other than his silence (which is more for offense and useless against targets not in range), his conditional crowd control, and an HP growth tied to his ultimate

Sion could qualify as a juggernaut, but, he has 3 methods of crowd control, a percent HP shield, his "conditional" crowd control only needs to reach the halfway mark and covers a very large area, his damage is relatively low unless his build is very specialized, and his ultimate does not render him immobile but instead impractical due to its poor cornering

you would also be hard pressed to find a "tank" with as much kill pressure as chogath has

Critmaster GarenMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

actually, juggernauts are champions with : high damage, conditional gameplay, high durability, little to no mobility

Chogath does have crowd control, but it is tied to an easily avoidable delayed skill-shot. The primary gameplay for his opponents consists of baiting his abilties and then focusing him if there is not a more pressing threat

he also has no defensive means other than his silence (which is more for offense and useless against targets not in range), his conditional crowd control, and an HP growth tied to his ultimate

Sion could qualify as a juggernaut, but, he has 3 methods of crowd control, a percent HP shield, his "conditional" crowd control only needs to reach the halfway mark and covers a very large area, his damage is relatively low unless his build is very specialized, and his ultimate does not render him immobile but instead impractical due to its poor cornering

you would also be hard pressed to find a "tank" with as much kill pressure as chogath has

by the same logic, Sion would be a juggernaut just because his cc is conditional. if it was just a single ability like chos q or w, then id be willing to change my mind, but cho has two really impactful aoe cc abilities, and that cc isnt just a slow, but a knockup and a 2 second silence.

no, srry but im still the opinion chogath is a tank with juggernaut base damage slapped on top.

ITZ ICYMar 30, 201911 votes

{quoted}

Neither are doing well at all and Cho is a juggernaut, not a tank.

Cho isn't a juggernaut. That's it, really not much more to it.

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=HOT PINK,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2019-03-30T15:20:22.065+0000)

Cho isn't a juggernaut. That's it, really not much more to it.

Yeah , in he is counted as a Tank

hiyaresMar 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Neither are doing well at all and Cho is a juggernaut, not a tank.

he is stil la tank................ he generally builds straight up tank though he does have a variation of ap/hybrid builds that give him leeway in the early he isstill a tank lol he isnt like garren that has a high base damage q beat the shit out of you all game he tends to just q auto and the first 20 minsof the game that ult is used on minions for the stacks unless kill pressure is there. he is still fundamentally a tank crap cds on his cc and that one impactful ult that anyone can dodge with any sort of jump dash flash invis.

3TWarriorMar 31, 20191 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/qPjVnO4p-tanks-arent-allowed-to-be-viable-in-their-own-god-damn-lane?comment=0000000000010001

PopcornBunniMar 31, 20191 votes

Garen also builds straight tank items.

It isn't what the character builds its the role they have. Cho doesn't have the engage tools of a vanguard or the peel of a Warden to be either tank class. He's a damage-dealing 1-on-1 Juggernaut with extra casting range.

Poop JohnsonMar 31, 20191 votes

Cho'gath is a tank, but a specialist tank. Saying he's a 1-on-1 juggernaut when 3/4th of his spells are primarily there for CC and the other one is a execute that scales with health.

Garen builds tank but he only really does damage, Cho'gath has a slow, a longer silence, and a knockup (all AOE mind you).

Critmaster GarenMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Cho doesn't have the engage tools of a vanguard or the peel of a Warden

he dos though. his 2 second aoe silence and his aoe knockup are powerful peeling tools.

TahmKench counts as a warden, and his only actual peeling ability is his w.

its weird to think of cho as a warden, because "giant void monster that eats enemies" doesnt exactly fit the thematic theme of a protective tank, but in terms of game mechanics, "warden" is the most accurate class to describe cho. using your knockup and silence to peel, or enable plays for your team is also the most effective way to play him.

hiyaresMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

also builds straight tank items.

It isn't what the character builds its the role they have. Cho doesn't have the engage tools of a vanguard or the peel of a Warden to be either tank class. He's a damage-dealing 1-on-1 Juggernaut with extra casting range.

but realistically he cant 1v1 and garren builds trinity for the most part as of right now and can build full on bruiser with little to no issue. cho has okay base damages on his skills he has 1 real damage in his kit being his r everything else is cc related slows toss up silence. he is a tank easily kited easily abused in lane he needs to scale liek a tank to be useful in most match ups atm even though e isnt the best at it he tends to be the one who has to initiate fights since jungle mid n bot are probably going full on damage he is a tank. he realistically cant 1v1 much or anyone unless they are stupid and walk into his q or disrespect item 3800 active for pushing solo as a squishy. he is a tank that scales thus why darius a tank counter rapes cho in majority of the game.

RhaiMar 30, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Neither are doing well at all and Cho is a juggernaut, not a tank.

Pretty sure he's a "Specialist"

AbiwonKenabiMar 30, 20191 votes

Cho is not a juggernaut. He's not doing well right now by any means, but he's not a juggernaut.

3TWarriorMar 31, 20191 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/qPjVnO4p-tanks-arent-allowed-to-be-viable-in-their-own-god-damn-lane?comment=0000000000010001

AbiwonKenabiMar 31, 20191 votes

I guess you could make the argument, but even Riot themselves classify Cho as a "Specialist".

Lord Zeta 1313Mar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Neither are doing well at all and Cho is a juggernaut, not a tank.

Cho is not a juggernaut He is listed as a tank and acts like one.

PopcornBunniMar 31, 20191 votes

So which kind of tank is he? A vangard or a warden?

Neither. He's listed as a specialist because he has the casting range of a battlemage but the statlines and threat of activation of a juggernaut. Cho is no more a tank than Nasus or Darius are.

Lord Zeta 1313Mar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So which kind of tank is he? A vangard or a warden?

Neither. He's listed as a specialist because he has the casting range of a battlemage but the statlines and threat of activation of a juggernaut. Cho is no more a tank than or are.

He's a specialist TANK, as he lacks the damage that wold make him a juggernaunt, he is also not a juggernaunt through his CC, as juggernaunts usually lack hard CC

Sir SaltarinMar 30, 20194 votes

Hey I love tanks, but when they were meta on Top and Jng too many ppl bitched about them being too boring, now you get ranged or bruisers on Toplane and heavy early gank on Jungle.

That's what "is fun" to play or at least that's what I saw on this same Gameplay Boards when tanks were meta.

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-30T12:15:57.658+0000)

Hey I love tanks, but when they were meta on Top and Jng too many ppl bitched about them being too boring, now you get ranged or bruisers on Toplane and heavy early gank on Jungle.

That's what "is fun" to play or at least that's what I saw on this same Gameplay Boards when tanks were meta.

the only way for Tanks to be viable is by being Meta but Don't dare to speak the truth on boards when it comes to tanks Just wait until they buff tanks so they dominate again and read the complain posts about how Riot overbuffed tanks

Sir SaltarinMar 30, 20191 votes

The Gameplay Boards were also really against the Sejuani changes and from a champ gutted for pro play that was on 46% winrate on soloQ now she's like this:

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sejuani/

Is Sejuani great? No, but sure she's better now. Giving more dmg to tanks and nerfing their cc and tank stats is the way to balance them.

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-03-30T17:28:26.850+0000)

The Gameplay Boards were also really against the Sejuani changes and from a champ gutted for pro play that was on 46% winrate on soloQ now she's like this:

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sejuani/

Is Sejuani great? No, but sure she's better now. Giving more dmg to tanks and nerfing their cc and tank stats is the way to balance them.

The problen is the CC Tank and CC together ? It breaks the champion, that's why Sej was pick or ban in Pro play and had to get nerfed I don't think it's a good idea to give a tank that much CC I also don't think giving them Dmg is a good idea either Not even giving them extra tankiness So in other way the only way for Tanks to be good picks is by making them meta if they give them extra tankiness or CC That's why Riot took the easiest way and buffed her Damage

Cry of the CeltsMar 30, 20195 votes

They are tanks, they are suppose to have hard cc and no damage. If you make a champion without damage, without cc, just put in champ select a superminions.

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cry of the Celts,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-30T18:28:20.902+0000)

They are tanks, they are suppose to have hard cc and no damage. If you make a champion without damage, without cc, just put in champ select a superminions.

They have both.

Cry of the CeltsMar 30, 20194 votes

Because the balance team is crap. See Ornn, they take away tankiness to give him more damage.

Sir SaltarinMar 31, 20191 votes

But neither you or me plays tanks as tanks, because team comunication and synergy doesn't exist on soloQ.

SoloQ players plays Tanks as if they were playing Bruisers, so the way to make them playable on soloQ while not being broken on pro play is to make them more bruiser like.

Pandemic PunchMar 30, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-30T18:00:33.917+0000)

The problen is the CC Tank and CC together ? It breaks the champion, that's why Sej was pick or ban in Pro play and had to get nerfed I don't think it's a good idea to give a tank that much CC I also don't think giving them Dmg is a good idea either Not even giving them extra tankiness So in other way the only way for Tanks to be good picks is by making them meta if they give them extra tankiness or CC That's why Riot took the easiest way and buffed her Damage

CC is a Tank's primary job so they can peel or engage. A Tank without CC is like a Marksman without range

Ahri BakaMar 30, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-30T18:29:40.323+0000)

CC is a Tank's primary job so they can peel or engage. A Tank without CC is like a Marksman without range

There is difference between CC try to compare Sej who has CC in every single part of her Kit with Poppy for example.

PopcornBunniMar 31, 20191 votes

Sejuani is a vangard and Poppy is a warden. They have different roles as tanks. Wardens all have less CC or weaker engages while Vangards have more chain cc and longer, stronger engage tools. As a trade off Wardens get higher baseline damage in general along with more direct tankiness.

Vanguards need to engage the enemy

Wardens need to disengage the enemy

They have fundamentally opposite goals as classes.

VectrosMar 31, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPjVnO4p,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-03-30T19:12:07.046+0000)

There is difference between CC try to compare Sej who has CC in every single part of her Kit with Poppy for example.

Um...but Poppy has just as much CC as Sej does?

Sejuani has: -Q AoE knock up, W AoE slow, E stun (after stacks), R stun/AoE Slow

Total of 2 hard CC's (1 is aoe)+ 2 soft CC's (both AoE)

Poppy:

Q AoE slow, W AoE knock down (conditional), E knock back+stun, R AoE Knockback.

Total of 3 hard CC's (one is conditional), two of which are AoE, and a single AoE slow.

Sejuani may feel like she has more CC because she can more reliably lock down a single target, but realistically poppy has a lot more potential CC. I mean, anyone you hit with a charged ultimate is basically CC'd from the fight, leaving whoever is left to fend for themselves.

MLDzXnRRRMar 30, 20193 votes

So, is Kayle now broken OP tier? (I have uninstalled some time ago)

Grimlock840Mar 30, 20195 votes

she has a lot of mana so she just pokes everyone out of lane for free by spamming e

Flawless FetusMar 30, 20192 votes

Her e deals negative damage, though. Lol. She passively farms until level 6 and then kills people with aas. Lol.

RekSai CoffeeCoMar 30, 20192 votes

I do feel your pain.

As a side note it is so sad that wukong still hasn't been addressed (0.83 pickrate) since the nerfs to well everything including runes, can't imagine how bad his jungle rate is.

Meteora707Mar 30, 201911 votes

wukong mid has been sitting at 54% wr since forever, pls buff pls