SHYVANNA REWORK! WHO'S WITH ME?

SaltyToplaneGoat··12 votes·2,677 views

Shyvana suffers from the usual outdated, too linear, low interactive and generally boring kit like many of the old champions. But her theme is actually awesome, so not taking this chance would be a massive waste of potential!

And do you guys know what makes me think that this rework can be awesome?

THIS GUY: Gnar

Riot actually managed to create a champ using Fury where, for the first time, the theme is actually fitting. Also he's a tranformation champ too...

So, I could see Shyvanna getting a similiar ability overhaul, with her Dragon form actually being awesome and important and not just some def-stat boost coming with a bigger hitbox.

There's just one difference to note here that I'd like to see (compared to Gnar's style): Shyvanna's rage needs to be a bit more controllable - not entirely, but there needs to be at leat tone ability that can be used to "burn out" (heh) some Fury before triggering the transform, wich should work similiar to Gnar's passive. Gnar's a little brat who doesn't know what he's doing. Shyvanna is a grown up young woman with self-control issues but with a massive crush on her beloved J4 (ok, I read too much Fanfic... but it's canon that she's his bodyguard).

No matter how good you are as a player, you can't hold down A MOTHER FU****** DRAGON! So I recommend a similiar concept as Gnar uses. Like this it's possible to power up the Dragon's abilities for a bit since it's not always aviable (same logic with Gnar).

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Now, after a day of sleep (much, much percious sleep) I've made some more thoughts about a possbiel rework. I write them as a reply to a comment, but I will also add them into the main post:

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qNc1JRAv,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-02-06T00:40:08.932+0000)

I see your point with these changes, but I have to disagree with them. Stat Boosts. Proc-change modification, AOE increase, Mini Heals... that are all considered the remarkable hidden power factors and I'm not sure how this could be included in a really fun and complex kit. As you might have guessed simple buff or power shifiting things won't cut it, so I propose a way bigger change!

Also, rest assure, I have no intention with turning her into another Vi or J4. In her non-tranformed form she won't have any acess to hard CC, this is reserved for her massive dragon form.

The change is propose is to make a similiar concept to Gnar (with the forced tranformations), but with enough uniqueness to keep Shyvanna's identity.

The first thing here should be to give Shyvanna's Dragon form entirely new abilities!, sure they can be close to the small-form-ones, but should be unique!

The current kit should remain in some forms for her human form., although, like Gnar, I would referain from giving her two ultimate abilities and shift that power over to her Dragon Form.

Ok, so what is the main difference in between The human and the dragon form in terms of possible moves? The wings! Claws! All that other obvious anatomy things like tails!

Possible Changes:

Also Dragon Q, currently just an attack that deals AOE around the target should be changed to an actual skill. Gnar's Wallop comes to mind, but also Rek'Sai's Q. A small AOE in front of Shyvanna that could be cast multiple times, maybe a skill named "Dragon's Claw"? (No pokemon reference intendet). Hmm maybe something like "hitting an enemy with this ability will reduce it's cooldown by X%) And if your enemy dodges it you get a bigger cooldown.

Dragon form Shyvanna's W, burn out, is replaced by "Flaming Flight", a ability similiar to Aatrox Q but much, much larger (since she's a fat dragon, you know?). Also it burns the ground in the landing area where she crashes into, just like the current dragon-burnout does. Maybe Bonus damage/or CC for enemies she land's directly upon? There is no need to keep the "normal" burnout for her dragon form. Dargons aren't known for being fast runenrs after all. More for coming down crushing from the sky with fire burning everything in their wake...

I still have no idea for the E, neither for the human nor the Dragon form, since I move the fireblast to the ultimate... The normal fireball should stay, but instead of a % health shred it slows and burns damage for the duration. Also it doesn't go through creeps anmore (ok this is debatable). Like this Shyvanna has a tool to gank pre-six and when her tranformation is not ready - although it's not as powerful as a dragon-gank OFC. This prevent's her from getting kited too hard.

Also, E Dragon form: still open, would propose a hard CC spell here. Maybe her turning around and slamming her tail into nearby champions (those really close to her and whacking them either to the left or the right. Not a knockback but a knock-aside. (Well, if used wise it also can be used as a knockback i think.) You as player can choose the direction Shyvana is turning for this move, knocking them either to your left or your right.

A move that would have a fascinating effect on play resulting from flanking...

Ultimate/Dragon Form: Channels and rapidly consumes Fury to cause massive AOE dmg in an area in front of shyvanna, the controls to that being similiar to Vel'Koz laser. This is chanells as long you have fury, but burns almost all of it. If you use this to a degree where the damage becomes effective you loose all chance to use the CC and tankiness of the tranformation, since most likely the rage will run out. Damaging enemies with this skill does not generate Fury.

The most important thing should be a clear difference to Gnar: with him you Rage up, try to control the tranforming timing and use it to your best advantage. Also you have no control of the rage of Mega-Gnar!

With Shyvanna, you need to control you rage-meter at all time, even in the dragon form, because if you suddenly tranform back while standing right inside the enemy team WILL get you killed, since you lose a LOT of tankiness and cc options. Also you're not Gnar who gets a free hyper boost. If you're LUCKY your W gets of cooldown fast enough for you to run out.

For this you have tools to increase or decrease your Rage up to a certain point, although it's really hard to decrease rage while in combat. On the other hand, you NEED to stay in combat as a dragon since your range won't build up as fast as it decays.

In Dragon form the claw-stikes I proposed (Q) could be a tool to keep the rage up while Using the ult completly empties your rage-pool. Dragon W and E could. COULD come with actual Rage Costs... hmm this will be interesting to work out...

In human form using burnout without damaging enemies makes you lose fury (you "burn it out to calm down"). So you can keep your rage under control when moving through the jungle. Using Q to damage builds rage up (just like it does now - double strike =double fury gain). Overall I think her fury should build up a bit slower than Gnar if not influenced by abilities, only when getting or dealing damage. With wise abiltiy usage it shoud be able to speed up or slow down the rate of Rage-Grow.

19 Comments

mi ramfan4 votes

I don't want Shyvana getting any CC because she's already got solid damage and free bulk. Giving her CC would be a recipe for creating another J4/Vi, and while that's appealing because she's one of my favorite champions, I'd rather she remain her own champions and give her buffs that make her do what she already does better.

So, essentially, there are two places I'd look to buff Shyvana where we wouldn't have to give her tons of nerfs in return:

  • Early game jungle clearing and/or invasion
  • Damage in general; because she's so easy to kite in the League of Active Mobility, she should hit you hard when she actually does reach you. She shouldn't be a Master Yi in terms of damage, but she should be at least as high as Nocturne.
  • Dragon form should feel more like an ultimate and less like a model change. I'd be willing to lose the damage in exchange for Shyvana being a goddamn raid boss when she's in dragon form.

With that in mind, here are the changes I would specifically make:

Shyvana changelog: patch 5.XX

Twin Bite: If Twin Bite kills a unit, Shyvana regains 20 HP (+10 per champion level). [meant to make Shyvana's clears slightly safer]

Burnout: Deals 25% bonus damage to minions and monsters. [Cements Shyvana's identity as THE lightning-fast jungle clearer early game]

Flame Breath: Some damage moved from cast to on-hit proc, breaks even at 2 autoattacks

Dragon's Descent: Many, many changes with the intent of making Dragon form feel like a full transformation instead of a model swap:

  • No longer deals damage on cast. [compensation nerf for the buffs below]
  • In addition to doubling the bonus from Shyvana's passive, also increases her armor and magic resistance by (0.1/0.2/0.3 bonus armor) and (0.1/0.2/0.3 bonus magic resistance) respectively. [makes dragon!Shyvana a raid boss]
  • dragon!Burnout: Slightly increased AoE around Shyvana compared to human form. Can be extended indefinitely as long as Shyvana continues attacking. Cannot be cast while an existing Burnout is running. [Distinguishes Shyvana from J4/Vi/Lee by making her a front liner instead of a carry diver]
  • dragon!Flame Breath: Debuff can be procced by all allied champion autoattacks, not just Shyvana's.
  • NEW ABILITY-Dragon's Wrath: While Shyvana is in Dragon form, she can deactivate Dragon's Descent to toggle Dragon's Wrath on or off (1 sec CD between toggles). If Dragon's Wrath is on, Shyvana's Attack Damage is increased by 50%, but her Attack Speed is decreased by 33% (effective DPS remains the same). [Again, making Shyvana feel like a raid boss with slow but powerful attacks. Can be toggled off for people who like on-hits on her, although Hydra fans will appreciate the bonus damage on that item's procs.]

These changes emphasize Shyvana's unique attributes while still helping her in various ways, carving Shyvana her own niche as a fighter-tank hybrid. Ideally, she has sustained damage like Nocturne, and bulk like (insert mainstream tank here), but lacks the CC of a tank and the mobility of a mainstream fighter.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

I see your point with these changes, but I have to disagree with them. Stat Boosts. Proc-change modification, AOE increase, Mini Heals... that are all considered the remarkable hidden power factors and I'm not sure how this could be included in a really fun and complex kit. As you might have guessed simple buff or power shifiting things won't cut it, so I propose a way bigger change!

Also, rest assure, I have no intention with turning her into another Vi or J4. In her non-tranformed form she won't have any acess to hard CC, this is reserved for her massive dragon form.

The change is propose is to make a similiar concept to Gnar (with the forced tranformations), but with enough uniqueness to keep Shyvanna's identity.

The first thing here should be to give Shyvanna's Dragon form entirely new abilities!, sure they can be close to the small-form-ones, but should be unique!

The current kit should remain in some forms for her human form., although, like Gnar, I would referain from giving her two ultimate abilities and shift that power over to her Dragon Form.

Ok, so what is the main difference in between The human and the dragon form in terms of possible moves? The wings! Claws! All that other obvious anatomy things like tails!

Possible Changes:

Also Dragon Q, currently just an attack that deals AOE around the target should be changed to an actual skill. Gnar's Wallop comes to mind, but also Rek'Sai's Q. A small AOE in front of Shyvanna that could be cast multiple times, maybe a skill named "Dragon's Claw"? (No pokemon reference intendet). Hmm maybe something like "hitting an enemy with this ability will reduce it's cooldown by X%) And if your enemy dodges it you get a bigger cooldown.

Dragon form Shyvanna's W, burn out, is replaced by "Flaming Flight", a ability similiar to Aatrox Q but much, much larger (since she's a fat dragon, you know?). Also it burns the ground in the landing area where she crashes into, just like the current dragon-burnout does. Maybe Bonus damage/or CC for enemies she land's directly upon? There is no need to keep the "normal" burnout for her dragon form. Dargons aren't known for being fast runenrs after all. More for coming down crushing from the sky with fire burning everything in their wake...

I still have no idea for the E, neither for the human nor the Dragon form, since I move the fireblast to the ultimate... The normal fireball should stay, but instead of a % health shred it slowls and burns damage for the duration. Also it doesn't go through creeps anmore (ok this is debatable). Like this Shyvanna has a tool to gank pre-six and when her tranformation is not ready - although it's not as powerful as a dragon-gank OFC. This prevent's her from getting kited too hard.

Also, E Dragon form: still open, would propose a hard CC spell here. Maybe her turning around sand slamming her tail into nearby champions (those really close to her and whacking them either to the left or the right. Not a knockback but a knock-aside. (Well, if used wise it also can be used as a knockback i think.) You as player can choose the direction Shyvana is turning for this move, knocking them either to your left or your right.

A move that would have a fascinating effect on play resulting from flanking...

Ultimate/Dragon Form: Channels and rapidly consumes Fury to cause massive AOE dmg in an area in front of shyvanna, the controls to that being similiar to Vel'Koz laser. This is chanells as long you have fury, but burns almost all of it. If you use this to a degree where the damage becomes effective you loose all chance to use the CC and tankiness of the tranformation, since most likely the rage will run out. Damaging enemies with this skill does not generate Fury.

The most important thing should be a clear difference to Gnar: with him you Rage up, try to control the tranforming timing and use it to your best advantage. Also you have no control of the rage of Mega-Gnar!

With Shyvanna, you need to control you rage-meter at all time, even in the dragon form, because if you suddenly tranform back while standing right inside the enemy team WILL get you killed, since you lose a LOT of tankiness and cc options. Also you're not Gnar who gets a free hyper boost. If you're LUCKY your W gets of cooldown fast enough for you to run out.

For this you have tools to increase or decrease your Rage up to a certain point, although it's really hard to decrease rage while in combat. On the other hand, you NEED to stay in combat as a dragon since your range won't build up as fast as it decays.

In Dragon form the claw-stikes I proposed (Q) could be a tool to keep the rage up while Using the ult completly empties your rage-pool. Dragon W and E could. COULD come with actual Rage Costs... hmm this will be interesting to work out...

In human form using burnout without damaging enemies makes you lose fury (you "burn it out to calm down"). So you can keep your rage under control when moving through the jungle. Using Q to damage builds rage up (just like it does now - double strike =double fury gain). Overall I think her fury should build up a bit slower than Gnar if not influenced by abilities, only when getting or dealing damage. With wise abiltiy usage it shoud be able to speed up or slow down the rate of Rage-Grow.

LilxPaprika3 votes

i think shyv is in an okay spot. she was just really strong over the past spring lcs. and got an okay buff recently. im not saying no. just not in near future so many other champs need looking at. i think if riot would tone down other champs like gnar shyvana will stay relevant again.

19 19 193 votes

IM WITH YOU, TIRED OF PEOPLE NOT AGREEING WITH THE IDEA OF SHYVANA BEING A TRUE DRAGON. LIKE FUCK DUDE SHYVANA CAME FIRST AND THEY GAVE THAT THING ALL THE CC/UTILITY LIKE SO UNFAIR DUDE I WANT A FEARSOME DRAGON.

I stopped playing shyvana because I couldn't carry my team without any damn CC/utility. I would always dominate my lane but when it comes to grouping, my team just suck at following up/focusing -_- like I always think I can carry my team IF i had some kind of CC

Tired of these air heads always saying " she's fine " like no dude, it'd make her a very fun champ if she had some kind of utility/CC LIKE A STUN ON HER Q AT LEAST -.-

SaltyToplaneGoat3 votes

YES FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!

I hate it when people say "Ugh the champ did well in LCS or wherever... needs no rework" - BULLSHIT! Even a totally outdated kit can be highly effective in competitive play - especially since some of the outdated ones lack counterplay...

Being viable in competitive does not equal a healthy and fun design! (With that I mean fun to use AND fun to play against. If I see a enemy champ in loading screen I want to feel challenged, not frustrated!)

CC would be the right approach for this.

Do you guys have any idea how massive Shyvanna's dragon form actually is? it just translates terrible into her gameplay... A BIG FAT DRAGON! AT LEATS OF THE SIZE OF MEGA GNAR! OF COURSE SHE WILL HAVE SOME CC! THAT AND AN ACTUALLY AWESOME FIRE-BREATH!

OH IDEA! "Flame of the dragon": Active skill, channel, only aviable in dragon form: Shyvanna channles to blast a massive AOE of fire out of her mouth while rapidingly consuming her fury for this (Zero Fury would mean transforming back to human form). This could be an ultimate move, similiar to Gnar's GNAR!

Then Shyvanna would have to decide: use the dragon form for CC or burn everything with the damage, but for the duration no movement or cc.

19 19 191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qNc1JRAv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-02-05T07:01:43.117+0000)

YES FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!

I hate it when people say "Ugh the champ did well in LCS or wherever... needs no rework" - BULLSHIT! Even a totally outdated kit can be highly effective in competitive play - especially since some of the outdated ones lack counterplay...

Being viable in competitive does not equal a healthy and fun design! (With that I mean fun to use AND fun to play against. If I see a enemy champ in loading screen I want to feel challenged, not frustrated!)

CC would be the right approach for this.

Do you guys have any idea how massive Shyvanna's dragon form actually is? it just translates terrible into her gameplay... A BIG FAT DRAGON! AT LEATS OF THE SIZE OF MEGA GNAR! OF COURSE SHE WILL HAVE SOME CC! THAT AND AN ACTUALLY AWESOME FIRE-BREATH!

OH IDEA! "Flame of the dragon": Active skill, channel, only aviable in dragon form: Shyvanna channles to blast a massive AOE of fire out of her mouth while rapidingly consuming her fury for this (Zero Fury would mean transforming back to human form). This could be an ultimate move, similiar to Gnar's GNAR!

Then Shyvanna would have to decide: use the dragon form for CC or burn everything with the damage, but for the duration no movement or cc.

like imagine jarvan without the ability to knock up champions, that would make him less useful but with just one knock up he can gank very well and do a lot of damage .-. plus it makes him fun.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Why not a slow on her E?

EllaRyu693 votes

i'm just happy people ship JarvanIV x Shyvana but seriously she needs a buff or a good cc ability..

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes
  • friendly reminder that Upvoting without Commenting anything isn't nice!

Another idea that just came in when thinking about it:

How about making Rage-Management in the Dragon form as important as in the normal/humanoid one? That's something not important for Gnar's concept for example and would be an unique element for our beloved dragon girl!

At first you need to prevent getting too much rage, or you change too fast. Then you need to prevent your rage falling below Zero. or you'll change back. Abilities could cost or give fury, depending on how it makes sense...

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

carefull bump, maybe I can excite someone for this idea...

JustBoneBrook1 votes

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My post :P I use this chance to shamelessly advertise my post :D

JChaosMaster1 votes

Well this is the fourth thread about this and hope it goes well for her. I always agree that shyv needs a buff. Only along the trist lines in most of her kit works but lacks in a few places. I hate people who say she is in a ok place or she did well last season. Only because this is 2015 and look at what there released already. Having no cc in a mobile meta is a bad thing. A few of the newest champs only have one weakness which is to hard cc.

Duskmelt1 votes

In my opinion, Shyvanna's ult needs to be uninterruptible. Outside of that, her design is great. I don't want to tack on cc and make another Vi or J4. Champion diversity keeps this game strong.

terkmc1 votes

I actually think Shyvana is pretty good right now. Her main problem before was that she have no cc. Now you bring her into the jungle and take Stalker Blade. Its amazing. With the new jg beating everyone half to death, Shyvana tankiness and lightning speed clear puts her really ahead of the enemy jg, brings out a ton of counter jg option, starving the opposing jg of their already hard to get money, or outright killing them since most people will be taking alot of damage early on jgling, clear speed charge the really powerfull Devourer, and Chilling Smite makes her a very usable ganker since she bring a lot of damage to a gank, and combined smite and burnout measn she can close the gap quickly with the help of the laner and dish out tons of mixed damage

MartinLaEpic1 votes

I dont know, I am at very low elo so I am likely to be wrong , but she seems pretty ok to me. I play her decent amount also. Her clearing is pretty good and her ganks are ok. But she has no cc early but her w speed buff is good for me.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

{quoted}

I dont know, I am at very low elo so I am likely to be wrong , but she seems pretty ok to me. I play her decent amount also. Her clearing is pretty good and her ganks are ok. But she has no cc early but her w speed buff is good for me.

Guess what? Tristana was doing pretty ok too before her Rework. If a champ is viable in the current meta or not shouldn't be a reason to ignore a good chance for a rework. Sure, Shyvanna isn't high priority since she's actually not threatening the game's health or, the opposite, is somewhere down at urgot tier.

With her awesome theme too much potential is wasted by this outdated kit and champion design.

But if there's the chance to make an old champion actually awesome - why should we let that chance pass by?

19 19 191 votes

people dont want shyvana to have a CC or utility because they're scared her usage rate will go up, greedy ass people.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Excessive Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qNc1JRAv,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-02-06T01:26:39.733+0000)

people dont want shyvana to have a CC or utility because they're scared her usage rate will go up, greedy ass people.

I don't really get the logic. Even if she gets cc, if it's implemented in a healthy and well-thought way it shouldn't be a problem. Also until now I don't think I have EVER seen someone hate against the champ... ok maybe back then during the "League of Tanks" Meta xD

ravenswolfy1 votes

I would rather have Shyvana to have burnout on continuously during her dragon form that encompasses a larger area.

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